• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:36
CET 11:36
KST 19:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down21ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League99
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 Evil Geniuses - shutting down SC2 Power Rank: epic29
Tourneys
ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War Mathematicians needed to calc "Low Econ Epicness" BW General Discussion Top Players of October 2026 (EBPD Rankings) [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE! [$1250] International ShieldBattery League
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Deus Ex 3!? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10037 users

WCG 2011 Grand Finals - Page 113

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 111 112 113 114 115 436 Next
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
December 08 2011 08:20 GMT
#2241
On December 08 2011 17:15 FakeDeath wrote:

Bo3 is better than Bo1.Plus, maps play a huge role especially in Bo1s plus Bo1s does not actually speak which player are better in general due to the volatility of the matchup ESPECIALLY ZVZ in Bo1s.


1. Maps look more or less random from a decent to good pool, there can be no conclusions drawn from this. Yes some maps can be favored against, but some maps can be in one's favor as well.
2. Race and mirror matchups should not affect the format, ZvZ might be a little volatile (it isn't that much anymore) but it's only one match up out of 6, and it shouldn't dictate how the format is determined
3. If ZvZ is truly volatile, number of games will not affect the outcome; it will still be seemingly random
4. Each player plays 6 games, reducing the amount of 'volatility'

It's not an ideal format, I agree, but it's not that bad considering the number of players and groups.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
Zzoram
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada7115 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-08 08:22:31
December 08 2011 08:21 GMT
#2242
On December 08 2011 17:19 darkscream wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 17:11 NHY wrote:
You make is sound as if BoX formats are vastly superior to Bo1. They aren't.

Also, stop trying to connect Bo1 and cheese somehow. Just makes your argument that much less convincing.

Idra has said that he doesn't have a good handle on ZvZ. Have you considered that?




its not about idra, look at who has won and lost on liquipedia, lets just say they aren't results most would have expected.

There was a SOTG episode where LiquidTyler explained it far better than I ever will. BoX are vastly superior to Bo1 at determining who is "better", which is what tournaments are about. its simple statistics -- the sample size of 1 game is too small especially in a game that is super volatile (I use cheese as an example of this volatility). The fact that many of the players are total unknowns adds even more variability.

I realize its the way WCG has been done forever but as a first-time spectator its pretty disappointing, and I probably won't watch again in years following because I feel like drawing names from a hat would be an equally effective way of determining the groups.


Just because some players are popular doesn't mean they are playing the best in their group. The players who are top 2 of their group are the people who played best today. Sure some of them aren't very well known, but that doesn't mean they aren't good. Tournaments are where relatively unknown players make themselves known by beating the players people assume will win.

MVP going 6-0 is expected, and that's what we got. All the hate is almost certainly because Idra dropped 3 games. Guess what? If he was playing the best in his group, he wouldn't drop 3 games. He isn't playing the best in his group so he doesn't deserve to advance.
Kergy
Profile Joined December 2010
Peru2011 Posts
December 08 2011 08:21 GMT
#2243
Geez... I really wanted to see an Idra game commentated by koreans~
Everyday Girl's Day~!
Chicane
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7875 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-08 08:22:50
December 08 2011 08:21 GMT
#2244
On December 08 2011 17:19 RPR_Tempest wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 17:17 SnapCall wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:11 RPR_Tempest wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ.

Winner of elfi vs F91 advances in 2nd place. Socke is out.


Moonglade still has to play against JacK according to Liquipedia. If he loses, he is 4-2 aswell with a loss vs Socke and a win vs Elfi/F91.

Nope.

GLaDe is 1st place.


No. If Moonglade loses his last match, it is a 3 way tie with him Socke and F91. If he wins, him and F91 advance. I hope he loses though so that Socke has a chance to make it through. :O

Edit: I didn't account for Elfi winning. He has a chance of advancing as well.
RPR_Tempest
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Australia7799 Posts
December 08 2011 08:21 GMT
#2245
On December 08 2011 17:20 SnapCall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 17:19 RPR_Tempest wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:17 SnapCall wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:11 RPR_Tempest wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ.

Winner of elfi vs F91 advances in 2nd place. Socke is out.


Moonglade still has to play against JacK according to Liquipedia. If he loses, he is 4-2 aswell with a loss vs Socke and a win vs Elfi/F91.

Nope.

GLaDe is 1st place.


Why? Is the match already played? I dont get it, sorry

Yeah, GLaDe won.
Soundwave, Zerg player from Canberra, Australia. @SoundwaveSC
CEPEHDREI
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany1521 Posts
December 08 2011 08:21 GMT
#2246
On December 08 2011 17:20 SnapCall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 17:19 RPR_Tempest wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:17 SnapCall wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:11 RPR_Tempest wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ.

Winner of elfi vs F91 advances in 2nd place. Socke is out.


Moonglade still has to play against JacK according to Liquipedia. If he loses, he is 4-2 aswell with a loss vs Socke and a win vs Elfi/F91.

Nope.

GLaDe is 1st place.


Why? Is the match already played? I dont get it, sorry


yea glade won
RPR_Tempest
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Australia7799 Posts
December 08 2011 08:21 GMT
#2247
On December 08 2011 17:21 Chicane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 17:19 RPR_Tempest wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:17 SnapCall wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:11 RPR_Tempest wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ.

Winner of elfi vs F91 advances in 2nd place. Socke is out.


Moonglade still has to play against JacK according to Liquipedia. If he loses, he is 4-2 aswell with a loss vs Socke and a win vs Elfi/F91.

Nope.

GLaDe is 1st place.


No. If Moonglade loses his last match, it is a 3 way tie with him Socke and F91. If he wins, him and F91 advance. I hope he loses though so that Socke has a chance to make it through. :O

HE WON HIS LAST MATCH
Soundwave, Zerg player from Canberra, Australia. @SoundwaveSC
ceaRshaf
Profile Joined August 2009
Romania4926 Posts
December 08 2011 08:22 GMT
#2248
The actual question should be is bo7 vs one player better than bo1 vs 7 players?
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Kar98
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia924 Posts
December 08 2011 08:22 GMT
#2249
On December 08 2011 17:19 RPR_Tempest wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 17:17 SnapCall wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:11 RPR_Tempest wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ.

Winner of elfi vs F91 advances in 2nd place. Socke is out.


Moonglade still has to play against JacK according to Liquipedia. If he loses, he is 4-2 aswell with a loss vs Socke and a win vs Elfi/F91.

Nope.

GLaDe is 1st place.

Wow moonglade is actually doing something for once? I'm impressed, margianally
aLt)nirvana
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Singapore848 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-08 08:23:02
December 08 2011 08:22 GMT
#2250
On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ.


glade is #1 5-1. not sure if socke/f91 have to play a tiebreaker, f91 won the head to head match with an amazing baneling flank against socke. elfi should be 3-3 there
sc2sea.com - The SEA / ANZ community
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-08 08:23:28
December 08 2011 08:22 GMT
#2251
On December 08 2011 17:19 darkscream wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 17:11 NHY wrote:
You make is sound as if BoX formats are vastly superior to Bo1. They aren't.

Also, stop trying to connect Bo1 and cheese somehow. Just makes your argument that much less convincing.

Idra has said that he doesn't have a good handle on ZvZ. Have you considered that?




its not about idra, look at who has won and lost on liquipedia, lets just say they aren't results most would have expected.

There was a SOTG episode where LiquidTyler explained it far better than I ever will. BoX are vastly superior to Bo1 at determining who is "better", which is what tournaments are about. its simple statistics -- the sample size of 1 game is too small especially in a game that is super volatile (I use cheese as an example of this volatility). The fact that many of the players are total unknowns adds even more variability.

I realize its the way WCG has been done forever but as a first-time spectator its pretty disappointing, and I probably won't watch again in years following because I feel like drawing names from a hat would be an equally effective way of determining the groups.


A few posts back Tyler said he's okay with this Bo1 format because of the large groups :p

EDIT: OH WAIT no it was nazgul stupid me t.t
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
RPR_Tempest
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Australia7799 Posts
December 08 2011 08:22 GMT
#2252
On December 08 2011 17:22 Kar98 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 17:19 RPR_Tempest wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:17 SnapCall wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:11 RPR_Tempest wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ.

Winner of elfi vs F91 advances in 2nd place. Socke is out.


Moonglade still has to play against JacK according to Liquipedia. If he loses, he is 4-2 aswell with a loss vs Socke and a win vs Elfi/F91.

Nope.

GLaDe is 1st place.

Wow moonglade is actually doing something for once? I'm impressed, margianally

4th place and highest placing foreigner at IEM isn't something?
Soundwave, Zerg player from Canberra, Australia. @SoundwaveSC
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-08 08:24:16
December 08 2011 08:22 GMT
#2253
On December 08 2011 17:19 cvt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 17:18 StarStruck wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:16 Zzoram wrote:
Idra loses almost every BoX that he loses the first game of anyways.


ha ha ha ha!

Verrrry nice.

For the guy still trying to preach bo3's over bo1's.

2 letters for you.

B W

Throughout the history of the WCG, the right guys always came through.

Wow man you have 9000 posts and you know all about wcg history and brood war history. holy fuck, congrats.

Good argument for why bo1 is better than bo3 .


I love internet sarcasm.

One thing is certain. I've definitely been following RTS games longer than you.

You don't like the format? Tough.

There is ample proof and several tournaments other than WCG that have used bo1's before and they all have their reasons including Survivor and Courage.

You got to deliver and the players who deserve it make it through more often than not especially at WCG.
Bromazepam
Profile Joined August 2011
820 Posts
December 08 2011 08:23 GMT
#2254
On December 08 2011 17:16 Talin wrote:


BO3 is the most volatile format and the format that rewards risk taking the most. Winning a quick game with a coinflip build gives you a huge advantage in the series (or brings you back from a huge deficit), but losing it doesn't automatically eliminate you from the series.
.


I like your consistency here. Let me rephrase what you said:
Winning a quick game with a coinflip build gives you a huge advantage in the series (or brings you back from a huge deficit), but losing it gives the opponent a huge advantage in the series (or makes it end 2-0 instantly).
Saying that something is killing esports is killing esports.
Elem
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden4717 Posts
December 08 2011 08:23 GMT
#2255
This wc3 game is so good. Why did WC3 have to die in the west QQ
#freeshauni
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
December 08 2011 08:23 GMT
#2256
On December 08 2011 17:22 ceaRshaf wrote:
The actual question should be is bo7 vs one player better than bo1 vs 7 players?

There's pros and cons to both obviously, but bo7 against 1 player means that having an easy road/good matchups for you can take you far.
Xkalibert
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1404 Posts
December 08 2011 08:23 GMT
#2257
This guerrilla tactics that moon learn from playing Zerg he using it in WC3.
krisbin
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany46 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-08 08:24:13
December 08 2011 08:23 GMT
#2258
On December 08 2011 17:20 WhiteraCares wrote:
[image loading]
What the hell is he doing? Just woke up.



Yeah just saw it too. A couple of surprisingly results so far.
Some chinese players seem pretty strong.
WhiteraCares
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden339 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-08 08:24:22
December 08 2011 08:24 GMT
#2259
Edit:nm
SnapCall
Profile Joined December 2010
94 Posts
December 08 2011 08:24 GMT
#2260
On December 08 2011 17:21 RPR_Tempest wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 17:20 SnapCall wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:19 RPR_Tempest wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:17 SnapCall wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:11 RPR_Tempest wrote:
On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ.

Winner of elfi vs F91 advances in 2nd place. Socke is out.


Moonglade still has to play against JacK according to Liquipedia. If he loses, he is 4-2 aswell with a loss vs Socke and a win vs Elfi/F91.

Nope.

GLaDe is 1st place.


Why? Is the match already played? I dont get it, sorry

Yeah, GLaDe won.


Thanks and gratz to Moonglade then.
Prev 1 111 112 113 114 115 436 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 24m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4323
Bisu 1269
Jaedong 360
Larva 311
Stork 228
actioN 198
hero 176
Zeus 158
Hyuk 136
Light 122
[ Show more ]
Killer 118
FanTaSy 102
Rush 94
Leta 72
ggaemo 71
Pusan 63
Mong 62
ZerO 58
sorry 50
Mini 44
soO 41
Barracks 40
Sharp 30
Shine 29
Aegong 22
Terrorterran 16
yabsab 14
ZergMaN 13
Noble 12
Hm[arnc] 10
Dota 2
ODPixel376
League of Legends
JimRising 504
Counter-Strike
fl0m4117
olofmeister937
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King92
Other Games
ceh9534
crisheroes173
Pyrionflax139
Sick91
B2W.Neo43
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL428
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 7
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2249
• WagamamaTV168
League of Legends
• Stunt376
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
1h 24m
Ultimate Battle
1h 24m
Rush vs BeSt
Replay Cast
12h 24m
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
1d 2h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 14h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
herO vs Rogue
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
IPSL
5 days
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
IPSL
6 days
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-01
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.