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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On December 08 2011 17:15 FakeDeath wrote:
Bo3 is better than Bo1.Plus, maps play a huge role especially in Bo1s plus Bo1s does not actually speak which player are better in general due to the volatility of the matchup ESPECIALLY ZVZ in Bo1s.
1. Maps look more or less random from a decent to good pool, there can be no conclusions drawn from this. Yes some maps can be favored against, but some maps can be in one's favor as well.
2. Race and mirror matchups should not affect the format, ZvZ might be a little volatile (it isn't that much anymore) but it's only one match up out of 6, and it shouldn't dictate how the format is determined
3. If ZvZ is truly volatile, number of games will not affect the outcome; it will still be seemingly random
4. Each player plays 6 games, reducing the amount of 'volatility'
It's not an ideal format, I agree, but it's not that bad considering the number of players and groups.
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On December 08 2011 17:19 darkscream wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 17:11 NHY wrote:
You make is sound as if BoX formats are vastly superior to Bo1. They aren't.
Also, stop trying to connect Bo1 and cheese somehow. Just makes your argument that much less convincing.
Idra has said that he doesn't have a good handle on ZvZ. Have you considered that? its not about idra, look at who has won and lost on liquipedia, lets just say they aren't results most would have expected. There was a SOTG episode where LiquidTyler explained it far better than I ever will. BoX are vastly superior to Bo1 at determining who is "better", which is what tournaments are about. its simple statistics -- the sample size of 1 game is too small especially in a game that is super volatile (I use cheese as an example of this volatility). The fact that many of the players are total unknowns adds even more variability. I realize its the way WCG has been done forever but as a first-time spectator its pretty disappointing, and I probably won't watch again in years following because I feel like drawing names from a hat would be an equally effective way of determining the groups.
Just because some players are popular doesn't mean they are playing the best in their group. The players who are top 2 of their group are the people who played best today. Sure some of them aren't very well known, but that doesn't mean they aren't good. Tournaments are where relatively unknown players make themselves known by beating the players people assume will win.
MVP going 6-0 is expected, and that's what we got. All the hate is almost certainly because Idra dropped 3 games. Guess what? If he was playing the best in his group, he wouldn't drop 3 games. He isn't playing the best in his group so he doesn't deserve to advance.
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Geez... I really wanted to see an Idra game commentated by koreans~
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On December 08 2011 17:19 RPR_Tempest wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 17:17 SnapCall wrote:On December 08 2011 17:11 RPR_Tempest wrote:On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ. Winner of elfi vs F91 advances in 2nd place. Socke is out. Moonglade still has to play against JacK according to Liquipedia. If he loses, he is 4-2 aswell with a loss vs Socke and a win vs Elfi/F91. Nope.  GLaDe is 1st place.
No. If Moonglade loses his last match, it is a 3 way tie with him Socke and F91. If he wins, him and F91 advance. I hope he loses though so that Socke has a chance to make it through. :O
Edit: I didn't account for Elfi winning. He has a chance of advancing as well.
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On December 08 2011 17:20 SnapCall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 17:19 RPR_Tempest wrote:On December 08 2011 17:17 SnapCall wrote:On December 08 2011 17:11 RPR_Tempest wrote:On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ. Winner of elfi vs F91 advances in 2nd place. Socke is out. Moonglade still has to play against JacK according to Liquipedia. If he loses, he is 4-2 aswell with a loss vs Socke and a win vs Elfi/F91. Nope. GLaDe is 1st place. Why? Is the match already played? I dont get it, sorry 
Yeah, GLaDe won.
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On December 08 2011 17:20 SnapCall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 17:19 RPR_Tempest wrote:On December 08 2011 17:17 SnapCall wrote:On December 08 2011 17:11 RPR_Tempest wrote:On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ. Winner of elfi vs F91 advances in 2nd place. Socke is out. Moonglade still has to play against JacK according to Liquipedia. If he loses, he is 4-2 aswell with a loss vs Socke and a win vs Elfi/F91. Nope. GLaDe is 1st place. Why? Is the match already played? I dont get it, sorry
yea glade won
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On December 08 2011 17:21 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 17:19 RPR_Tempest wrote:On December 08 2011 17:17 SnapCall wrote:On December 08 2011 17:11 RPR_Tempest wrote:On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ. Winner of elfi vs F91 advances in 2nd place. Socke is out. Moonglade still has to play against JacK according to Liquipedia. If he loses, he is 4-2 aswell with a loss vs Socke and a win vs Elfi/F91. Nope. GLaDe is 1st place. No. If Moonglade loses his last match, it is a 3 way tie with him Socke and F91. If he wins, him and F91 advance. I hope he loses though so that Socke has a chance to make it through. :O
HE WON HIS LAST MATCH
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The actual question should be is bo7 vs one player better than bo1 vs 7 players?
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On December 08 2011 17:19 RPR_Tempest wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 17:17 SnapCall wrote:On December 08 2011 17:11 RPR_Tempest wrote:On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ. Winner of elfi vs F91 advances in 2nd place. Socke is out. Moonglade still has to play against JacK according to Liquipedia. If he loses, he is 4-2 aswell with a loss vs Socke and a win vs Elfi/F91. Nope. GLaDe is 1st place.
Wow moonglade is actually doing something for once? I'm impressed, margianally
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On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ.
glade is #1 5-1. not sure if socke/f91 have to play a tiebreaker, f91 won the head to head match with an amazing baneling flank against socke. elfi should be 3-3 there
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On December 08 2011 17:19 darkscream wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 17:11 NHY wrote:
You make is sound as if BoX formats are vastly superior to Bo1. They aren't.
Also, stop trying to connect Bo1 and cheese somehow. Just makes your argument that much less convincing.
Idra has said that he doesn't have a good handle on ZvZ. Have you considered that? its not about idra, look at who has won and lost on liquipedia, lets just say they aren't results most would have expected. There was a SOTG episode where LiquidTyler explained it far better than I ever will. BoX are vastly superior to Bo1 at determining who is "better", which is what tournaments are about. its simple statistics -- the sample size of 1 game is too small especially in a game that is super volatile (I use cheese as an example of this volatility). The fact that many of the players are total unknowns adds even more variability. I realize its the way WCG has been done forever but as a first-time spectator its pretty disappointing, and I probably won't watch again in years following because I feel like drawing names from a hat would be an equally effective way of determining the groups.
A few posts back Tyler said he's okay with this Bo1 format because of the large groups :p
EDIT: OH WAIT no it was nazgul stupid me t.t
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On December 08 2011 17:22 Kar98 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 17:19 RPR_Tempest wrote:On December 08 2011 17:17 SnapCall wrote:On December 08 2011 17:11 RPR_Tempest wrote:On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ. Winner of elfi vs F91 advances in 2nd place. Socke is out. Moonglade still has to play against JacK according to Liquipedia. If he loses, he is 4-2 aswell with a loss vs Socke and a win vs Elfi/F91. Nope. GLaDe is 1st place. Wow moonglade is actually doing something for once? I'm impressed, margianally
4th place and highest placing foreigner at IEM isn't something?
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On December 08 2011 17:19 cvt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 17:18 StarStruck wrote:On December 08 2011 17:16 Zzoram wrote:
Idra loses almost every BoX that he loses the first game of anyways. ha ha ha ha! Verrrry nice. For the guy still trying to preach bo3's over bo1's. 2 letters for you. B W Throughout the history of the WCG, the right guys always came through. Wow man you have 9000 posts and you know all about wcg history and brood war history. holy fuck, congrats. Good argument for why bo1 is better than bo3 .
I love internet sarcasm.
One thing is certain. I've definitely been following RTS games longer than you.
You don't like the format? Tough.
There is ample proof and several tournaments other than WCG that have used bo1's before and they all have their reasons including Survivor and Courage.
You got to deliver and the players who deserve it make it through more often than not especially at WCG.
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On December 08 2011 17:16 Talin wrote:
BO3 is the most volatile format and the format that rewards risk taking the most. Winning a quick game with a coinflip build gives you a huge advantage in the series (or brings you back from a huge deficit), but losing it doesn't automatically eliminate you from the series.
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I like your consistency here. Let me rephrase what you said:
Winning a quick game with a coinflip build gives you a huge advantage in the series (or brings you back from a huge deficit), but losing it gives the opponent a huge advantage in the series (or makes it end 2-0 instantly).
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This wc3 game is so good. Why did WC3 have to die in the west QQ
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On December 08 2011 17:22 ceaRshaf wrote:
The actual question should be is bo7 vs one player better than bo1 vs 7 players?
There's pros and cons to both obviously, but bo7 against 1 player means that having an easy road/good matchups for you can take you far.
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This guerrilla tactics that moon learn from playing Zerg he using it in WC3.
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On December 08 2011 17:20 WhiteraCares wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mJuU8.jpg) What the hell is he doing? Just woke up.
Yeah just saw it too. A couple of surprisingly results so far.
Some chinese players seem pretty strong.
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On December 08 2011 17:21 RPR_Tempest wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 17:20 SnapCall wrote:On December 08 2011 17:19 RPR_Tempest wrote:On December 08 2011 17:17 SnapCall wrote:On December 08 2011 17:11 RPR_Tempest wrote:On December 08 2011 17:10 Namenlos wrote:
Is there a possibility for a 3 way tie in group 1 F91 Socke and elfi if elfi beats F91? In the Liquipedia page the Moonglade is placed 1ˢᵗ and F91 2ⁿᵈ. Winner of elfi vs F91 advances in 2nd place. Socke is out. Moonglade still has to play against JacK according to Liquipedia. If he loses, he is 4-2 aswell with a loss vs Socke and a win vs Elfi/F91. Nope. GLaDe is 1st place. Why? Is the match already played? I dont get it, sorry Yeah, GLaDe won.
Thanks and gratz to Moonglade then.
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EPT
