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Games are going on, no caster talk in the LR thread please. |
Feel like Goody could've grabbed his third so much faster.
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Lovely flank from Machine.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On May 15 2011 11:14 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 11:13 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:11 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:10 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:09 Drazerk wrote:
Game two now starting
Goody is 1-0 up against machine
Goody is at the 3
Machine is at the 6 2:20 15 hatch for machine 14 CC for goody 3:50 3rd for machine starting 6:50 Machine getting ling speed now and droning hard 8:30 Lair and baneling nest both finish goody getting blue flame
10:20
Hellions denied by speedlings
3rd on the way for goody
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On May 15 2011 11:15 bkrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 11:13 Kiarip wrote:On May 15 2011 11:12 cuppatea wrote:On May 15 2011 11:11 Kiarip wrote:On May 15 2011 11:10 mholden02 wrote:Yeah i would love to see Bomber against Hasuobs. Are you kidding me. Hasu could not beat Kas. How is he supposed to beat Bomber? It would be similar to Neatea vs Inca last evening. Very 1 sided. kas is better than bobmer At what? Certainly not SC2. even MC said that Foreign terrans are better than Korean terrans, and Kas is top 2 foreign terran Lol and if MC told you to jump off a bridge? Mvp, MKP and Bomber i feel are a class ahead of Kas, but that is not important. What is important is the fact that we are in the middle of macro fest TvZ with pure mech verse ALL TECH from Machine. Roach warren, infestation pit, spire, baneling nest.. Just build a hydra den for fun?
yeah because how you feel holds way mroe weight what one of the best protosses in the world feels.
Ok cool.
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On May 15 2011 11:14 Samhax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 11:09 MYM.ClouD wrote:On May 15 2011 11:08 Samhax wrote:On May 15 2011 11:03 MYM.ClouD wrote:On May 15 2011 10:57 Dommk wrote:On May 15 2011 10:49 Tsuki.eu wrote:
can someone please tell me what can terran do vP late game?
i'm at a loss. By going for his economy rather than his army. His army as Gretorp is layers of Templar, it is so inefficient trying to attack directly late game but the better idea would be going for his eco. Hasu relies so much on a steady income to keep up his Templar warp-ins, a single Nexus kill halves the amount of Templars he would be able to get out at that stage in the game. Pretty much playing like Kas does, going for the Nexus's, losing more units doing so, but its better losing units killing his economy than losing them to Storms. Obviously it isn't that simple in the game, it isn't going to be something like burrowed roaches vs 6gate, you have to outplay your opponent, just like he has to outplay you. going for eco or buildings late game is the worst thing u can do. i am not gonna explain the obvious reasons it's just ridicolously stupid to throw away units at anything that is not the opponent main army in a late game situation. anyway we're speaking about protoss having an unbeatable composition and terran not having any chance to fight against it in any possible way. there's no answer to late game because terran's most cost efficient units are available only in early/mid game and it's all about taking advantage out of them. there are huge balance swings in the matchup since early game belongs to protoss (due to the amount of super strong cheesing/early game possibilities), mid game is terran playground and then it goes back to protoss. Medivacs/Marauder 3/3 are not cost efficient late game? Ghosts are not cost efficient late game? no they are not compared to a protoss death ball and mass templars For me they are cost efficient against everything except aoe units i.e templars and collossi.
and that's exactly what the protoss deathball consists of/what hasuobs had in those games, isn't it? 
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On May 15 2011 11:16 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 11:14 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:13 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:11 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:10 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:09 Drazerk wrote:
Game two now starting
Goody is 1-0 up against machine
Goody is at the 3
Machine is at the 6 2:20 15 hatch for machine 14 CC for goody 3:50 3rd for machine starting 6:50 Machine getting ling speed now and droning hard 8:30 Lair and baneling nest both finish goody getting blue flame 10:20 Hellions denied by speedlings 3rd on the way for goody
11:00
Hive on the way for machine preping for the mech play
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On May 15 2011 11:03 MYM.ClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 10:57 Dommk wrote:On May 15 2011 10:49 Tsuki.eu wrote:
can someone please tell me what can terran do vP late game?
i'm at a loss. By going for his economy rather than his army. His army as Gretorp is layers of Templar, it is so inefficient trying to attack directly late game but the better idea would be going for his eco. Hasu relies so much on a steady income to keep up his Templar warp-ins, a single Nexus kill halves the amount of Templars he would be able to get out at that stage in the game. Pretty much playing like Kas does, going for the Nexus's, losing more units doing so, but its better losing units killing his economy than losing them to Storms. Obviously it isn't that simple in the game, it isn't going to be something like burrowed roaches vs 6gate, you have to outplay your opponent, just like he has to outplay you. going for eco or buildings late game is the worst thing u can do. i am not gonna explain the obvious reasons it's just ridicolously stupid to throw away units at anything that is not the opponent main army in a late game situation. anyway we're speaking about protoss having an unbeatable composition and terran not having any chance to fight against it in any possible way. there's no answer to late game because terran's most cost efficient units are available only in early/mid game and it's all about taking advantage out of them. there are huge balance swings in the matchup since early game belongs to protoss (due to the amount of super strong cheesing/early game possibilities), mid game is terran playground and then it goes back to protoss.
How is it a bad thing? It is how Kas played against HasuObs, he never tried to win fights but rather kept trying to set up situations where he could get Nexus kills, even if it meant he was losing much more than his opponent doing so, but he backed it up by macroing hard behind it.
Although Hasu's defensive play style is super efficient, when he goes on the offensive it bites him in the butt as he relies on Storms weathering an army over a period of time. Templars are such slow units, it is much harder to do his style offensively than defensively, if someone goes for an inefficient build with greedy macro play behind it then forces the issue for Hasu and puts him in a position where he has to start becoming offensive and counter attacking after inefficient army trades from Terran, which his build isn't really built to do.
I don't think I'm in a position to speak on how it would play out, but I'm willing to bet it takes much less units to beat a Templar heavy army comp when the Protoss is on the offensive rather than when he is on the defensive and has the advantage of your army walking into Storms rather than his Templars having to go out of their way to storm your army.
It is the same way Bomber played against White-ra, winning fights was never his goal, he would always just go for the economy in the macro games, even if it meant losing more than his opponents at that point in time. Kinda like PvT in broodwar for the Protoss.
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high praise from IdrA there for machine
c'mon goody let's see that mech push!
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Sounds like IdrA's talking about himself when he speaks of Machine.
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On May 15 2011 11:13 MYM.ClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 11:11 Chainfire99 wrote:
Cloud which opening do you think is superior for harassment versus zerg: cloaked banshees or reactor hellion (bf or earlier)? they are both coinflip unreliable builds. the best one of the two is usually reactor hellion
I usually get gas before racks and go fast reactor hellion...against diamond zerg it seems to be efficient enough to do good damage and early map control to get up my second while i get out my tanks..but i guess the higher level zergs just do a better job of scouting/preparing.
What kind of early game opening do you recommend in the mu?
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On May 15 2011 11:13 Kiarip wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 11:12 cuppatea wrote:On May 15 2011 11:11 Kiarip wrote:On May 15 2011 11:10 mholden02 wrote:Yeah i would love to see Bomber against Hasuobs. Are you kidding me. Hasu could not beat Kas. How is he supposed to beat Bomber? It would be similar to Neatea vs Inca last evening. Very 1 sided. kas is better than bobmer At what? Certainly not SC2. even MC said that Foreign terrans are better than Korean terrans, and Kas is top 2 foreign terran
no he didnt, he said europe had good terrans, i dont think he said better than koreans, maybe on the same level
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On May 15 2011 11:16 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 11:16 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:14 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:13 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:11 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:10 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:09 Drazerk wrote:
Game two now starting
Goody is 1-0 up against machine
Goody is at the 3
Machine is at the 6 2:20 15 hatch for machine 14 CC for goody 3:50 3rd for machine starting 6:50 Machine getting ling speed now and droning hard 8:30 Lair and baneling nest both finish goody getting blue flame 10:20 Hellions denied by speedlings 3rd on the way for goody 11:00 Hive on the way for machine preping for the mech play
12:30
Machine getting his 5th
Looking at a very long game
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Wow, this Hive rush really seems to be popular on this map, saw a lot of Korean zergs do it in the GSL.
But I do think going for very fast broods is a good decision.Does Goody even have a Starport?
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Broodlords in the first attack of the game? Sure why not.
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On May 15 2011 11:17 I)etox wrote:high praise from IdrA there for machine c'mon goody let's see that mech push!
goody's goint to be catched off guard by the broodlords again, just like in his first game vs nestea in the tsl
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On May 15 2011 11:17 EtohEtoh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 11:13 Kiarip wrote:On May 15 2011 11:12 cuppatea wrote:On May 15 2011 11:11 Kiarip wrote:On May 15 2011 11:10 mholden02 wrote:Yeah i would love to see Bomber against Hasuobs. Are you kidding me. Hasu could not beat Kas. How is he supposed to beat Bomber? It would be similar to Neatea vs Inca last evening. Very 1 sided. kas is better than bobmer At what? Certainly not SC2. even MC said that Foreign terrans are better than Korean terrans, and Kas is top 2 foreign terran no he didnt, he said europe had good terrans, i dont think he said better than koreans, maybe on the same level
he did, did you watch the interview?
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On May 15 2011 11:17 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 11:16 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:16 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:14 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:13 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:11 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:10 Drazerk wrote:On May 15 2011 11:09 Drazerk wrote:
Game two now starting
Goody is 1-0 up against machine
Goody is at the 3
Machine is at the 6 2:20 15 hatch for machine 14 CC for goody 3:50 3rd for machine starting 6:50 Machine getting ling speed now and droning hard 8:30 Lair and baneling nest both finish goody getting blue flame 10:20 Hellions denied by speedlings 3rd on the way for goody 11:00 Hive on the way for machine preping for the mech play 12:30 Machine getting his 5th Looking at a very long game
13:50
NP finishes for machine
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Australia8532 Posts
On May 15 2011 11:16 Kiarip wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 11:15 bkrow wrote:On May 15 2011 11:13 Kiarip wrote:On May 15 2011 11:12 cuppatea wrote:On May 15 2011 11:11 Kiarip wrote:On May 15 2011 11:10 mholden02 wrote:Yeah i would love to see Bomber against Hasuobs. Are you kidding me. Hasu could not beat Kas. How is he supposed to beat Bomber? It would be similar to Neatea vs Inca last evening. Very 1 sided. kas is better than bobmer At what? Certainly not SC2. even MC said that Foreign terrans are better than Korean terrans, and Kas is top 2 foreign terran Lol and if MC told you to jump off a bridge? Mvp, MKP and Bomber i feel are a class ahead of Kas, but that is not important. What is important is the fact that we are in the middle of macro fest TvZ with pure mech verse ALL TECH from Machine. Roach warren, infestation pit, spire, baneling nest.. Just build a hydra den for fun? yeah because how you feel holds way mroe weight what one of the best protosses in the world feels. Ok cool.
Don't understand why you have hard time coming up with your own opinion.
Greater spire is on the way; pretty much complete - Machine is going for infestor broodlord composition. Thor volleys take down a bunch of mutas!
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On May 15 2011 11:16 Dommk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 11:03 MYM.ClouD wrote:On May 15 2011 10:57 Dommk wrote:On May 15 2011 10:49 Tsuki.eu wrote:
can someone please tell me what can terran do vP late game?
i'm at a loss. By going for his economy rather than his army. His army as Gretorp is layers of Templar, it is so inefficient trying to attack directly late game but the better idea would be going for his eco. Hasu relies so much on a steady income to keep up his Templar warp-ins, a single Nexus kill halves the amount of Templars he would be able to get out at that stage in the game. Pretty much playing like Kas does, going for the Nexus's, losing more units doing so, but its better losing units killing his economy than losing them to Storms. Obviously it isn't that simple in the game, it isn't going to be something like burrowed roaches vs 6gate, you have to outplay your opponent, just like he has to outplay you. going for eco or buildings late game is the worst thing u can do. i am not gonna explain the obvious reasons it's just ridicolously stupid to throw away units at anything that is not the opponent main army in a late game situation. anyway we're speaking about protoss having an unbeatable composition and terran not having any chance to fight against it in any possible way. there's no answer to late game because terran's most cost efficient units are available only in early/mid game and it's all about taking advantage out of them. there are huge balance swings in the matchup since early game belongs to protoss (due to the amount of super strong cheesing/early game possibilities), mid game is terran playground and then it goes back to protoss. How is it a bad thing? It is how Kas played against HasuObs, he never tried to win fights but rather kept trying to set up situations where he could get Nexus kills, even if it meant he was losing much more than his opponent doing so, but he backed it up by macroing hard behind it. Although Hasu's defensive play style is super efficient, when he goes on the offensive it bites him in the butt as he relies on Storms weathering an army over a period of time. Templars are such slow units, it is much harder to do his style offensively than defensively, if someone goes for an inefficient build with greedy macro play behind it then forces the issue for Hasu and puts him in a position where he has to start becoming offensive and counter attacking after Nexus kills, which his build isn't really built to do. It is the same way Bomber played against White-ra, winning fights was never his goal, he would always just go for the economy in the macro games, even if it meant losing more than his opponents at that point in time. Kinda like PvT in broodwar for the Protoss.
we are speaking about late game situation while you are saying the answer is denying a comfortable protoss late game. two different things.
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On May 15 2011 11:14 Samhax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 11:09 MYM.ClouD wrote:On May 15 2011 11:08 Samhax wrote:On May 15 2011 11:03 MYM.ClouD wrote:On May 15 2011 10:57 Dommk wrote:On May 15 2011 10:49 Tsuki.eu wrote:
can someone please tell me what can terran do vP late game?
i'm at a loss. By going for his economy rather than his army. His army as Gretorp is layers of Templar, it is so inefficient trying to attack directly late game but the better idea would be going for his eco. Hasu relies so much on a steady income to keep up his Templar warp-ins, a single Nexus kill halves the amount of Templars he would be able to get out at that stage in the game. Pretty much playing like Kas does, going for the Nexus's, losing more units doing so, but its better losing units killing his economy than losing them to Storms. Obviously it isn't that simple in the game, it isn't going to be something like burrowed roaches vs 6gate, you have to outplay your opponent, just like he has to outplay you. going for eco or buildings late game is the worst thing u can do. i am not gonna explain the obvious reasons it's just ridicolously stupid to throw away units at anything that is not the opponent main army in a late game situation. anyway we're speaking about protoss having an unbeatable composition and terran not having any chance to fight against it in any possible way. there's no answer to late game because terran's most cost efficient units are available only in early/mid game and it's all about taking advantage out of them. there are huge balance swings in the matchup since early game belongs to protoss (due to the amount of super strong cheesing/early game possibilities), mid game is terran playground and then it goes back to protoss. Medivacs/Marauder 3/3 are not cost efficient late game? Ghosts are not cost efficient late game? no they are not compared to a protoss death ball and mass templars For me they are cost efficient against everything except aoe units i.e templars and collossi.
Going for eco against a protoss built up the deathball is terrible as Cloud said.
+ Show Spoiler +did you see TSL today? Kas picked off how many nexus in game 4 and then just got roflstomped by the deathball
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EPT
