EPT[GSL] Grand Finals - Code S May - Page 214
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dragoonier
Germany154 Posts
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ShootingStars
1475 Posts
On May 15 2011 01:10 Trsjnica wrote: It is a little hilarious that people are complaining about imbalance and that a Zerg strategy is unbeatable based on this. Until the finals, Nestea had not swept a single series this GSL. In fact, Nestea had lost games to played of all races. Inca's prior record versus Zerg was 0-4. Inca made the finals largely because he was lucky enough to not have faced a Zerg. Inca basically did variations on a theme three of four times, even after it got crushed the first time. Congrats to Nestea, he is very deserving of the win. Inca got a bit lucky to get into the finals without facing a Zerg. I don't think he would have been able to beat any of the Zergs in Code S. I don't see you beating Nestea as protoss. If a zerg denies all scouting, protoss is at loss unless he goes robo... which is obvious with spores | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On May 15 2011 01:02 xbankx wrote: who is good macro style toss ? Everyone said macro style toss is powerful but how many of them are there that are successful? MC is completely opposite using risky strong opening to get ahead or strong timings to kill zerg off. He almost never go into late game with them. And please don't throw in foreign toss names around because they would have been manhandled by nestea the same. But when forced into a macro game, MC can definitely deliver. And his multitasking is amazing. He uses timings because he likes to be aggressive in every step of the game and not let his opponent get ahead of him, if people can't hold the pressure, it's their fault, not the game's. Pretty much the only "pure" macro protoss that is good is San, he's pretty good I hear. | ||
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xbankx
703 Posts
On May 15 2011 01:12 mordk wrote: But when forced into a macro game, MC can definitely deliver. And his multitasking is amazing. He uses timings because he likes to be aggressive in every step of the game and not let his opponent get ahead of him, if people can't hold the pressure, it's their fault, not the game's. Pretty much the only "pure" macro protoss that is good is San, he's pretty good I hear. Yea, as we saw what good and safe macro openings is left. Zerg devised a way to stop or seriously damage 3 gate expand(either kill nexus or force cancel nexus or kill off lots of sentries). Forge expand is super risky even before we saw the spine crawler rush now it is just unviable on certain maps. San was good when everygame you can 3 gate expand and feel safe and start to probe up and get up 3 bases. That period is long gone. | ||
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Trsjnica
United States477 Posts
On May 15 2011 01:11 ShootingStars wrote: I don't see you beating Nestea as protoss. If a zerg denies all scouting, protoss is at loss unless he goes robo... which is obvious with spores Perhaps that is true in your head when you theorycraft, but fact is that Nestea lost a game in this current GSL to a Protoss, and that was without facing the top Protoss player. Last season, Nestea lost to san. The fact that you can't theorycraft a build that beats him more than likely means that you aren't better than Nestea. No shame in that, obviously, but Protoss players in the GSL have not found him as impossible to beat as you posit. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On May 15 2011 01:16 xbankx wrote: Yea, as we saw what good and safe macro openings is left. Zerg devised a way to stop or seriously damage 3 gate expand(either kill nexus or force cancel nexus or kill off lots of sentries). Forge expand is super risky even before we saw the spine crawler rush now it is just unviable on certain maps. San was good when everygame you can 3 gate expand and feel safe and start to probe up and get up 3 bases. That period is long gone. It's a new PvZ metagame. Stop this, good protosses are going to figure it out and get some new strat that will destroy that, then zergs will start QQing and world order will be restored. | ||
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Carras
Argentina860 Posts
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xbankx
703 Posts
On May 15 2011 01:19 mordk wrote: It's a new PvZ metagame. Stop this, good protosses are going to figure it out and get some new strat that will destroy that, then zergs will start QQing and world order will be restored. It is a new metagame. Obviously toss players have been relying on 3 gate sentry expo but it is just so hard to know what opening are left. The problem is there is zero scouting after first probe dies. Even if you see a FE, zerg can go units or drones and use 4-6 lings to stop any futher scout. It is just a guessing game from there. If you cannon and zerg has been just droning, congratz on being behind. If you don't throw down like 2-3 cannons, well we just hope zerg isnt roach/ling you. | ||
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Demonaz
United Kingdom1219 Posts
The finals were a huge disappointment which is quite unlucky from the overall GSL perspective, there have been many fantastic games/series in the earlier rounds. Always seems to be one dominant/in form player against someone who is riding a bit of luck in having got there. I still can't figure out whether the one-sidedness of the final was more down to Nestea playing well and reading Inca like a book or Inca just plain throwing it all away. I'm leaning towards the latter. Anyway, at least this and other results lately shows that perhaps Zerg aren't quite as underpowered as everyone seemed to think. Hopefully this next GSL tourney will have a decent final! | ||
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backtoback
Canada1276 Posts
On May 14 2011 15:21 backtoback wrote: does anyone else feel that inCa will get 0-4 by nestea? holy shit i am right before the set even started! | ||
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McBrungus
United States265 Posts
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DamnCats
United States1472 Posts
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SoKHo
Korea (South)1081 Posts
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
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cerebralz
United States443 Posts
Nestea on the other hand, better than any other zerg in the world, doesn't take risks and sniffs out exactly what you are doing with the whole trigger/non-trigger stuff day9 speaks of. Immediately, once he determined Inca was going for some sort of tech expand, he moved to kill him. I was disappointed that the technical one base flashiness into macro was pretty much gone. Each time his DT build didn't do any damage, he should have tried something else. That said, however, i don't think another zerg would be that good to drone so hard and make spores at the perfect time, or have perfect scouting like that. | ||
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donnerpartyallnight
United States5 Posts
On May 15 2011 01:33 Tachion wrote: in BW, after the Ro32, they seed the players in the brackets based off of their ELO right? Perhaps they should start doing that in GSL :o Maybe that will even be part of how they're changing the tournament format like they announced! That way it does a better job at evenly dividing player skill amongst the brackets, and you don't have that random chance where a lesser player has an easy route to the finals. Inca didn't so much have an easy road to the final, just a cheesy road at times. He just had an epic, insurmountable tactical breakdown in the final. Srsly, if you're getting beat by roach ling every game, you should probably adjust a bit. | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
Put any other code S protoss and it's a completely different series. I still don't believe MC has been defeated by a zerg in boX yet. Just tell MC to not lose to players like Polt and you'll be fine. Doubt it will matter though, now that MVP's back in code S he's going to win the next 5 gsls | ||
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ForeverSleep
Canada920 Posts
On May 15 2011 01:39 1Eris1 wrote: I find it ridiculous people are trying to use this series to argue imbalance. Come on, it was inca. Put any other code S protoss and it's a completely different series. I still don't believe MC has been defeated by a zerg in boX yet. Just tell MC to not lose to players like Polt and you'll be fine. Doubt it will matter though, now that MVP's back in code S he's going to win the next 5 gsls describe different? I, for one, am pretty sure that Nestea would have rolled over any protoss he encountered, be it MC or anypro, or w/e. He seemed well prepared against anything coming his way | ||
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Shirohige
Germany398 Posts
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
On May 15 2011 01:43 ForeverSleep wrote: describe different? I, for one, am pretty sure that Nestea would have rolled over any protoss he encountered, be it MC or anypro, or w/e. He seemed well prepared against anything coming his way Different=closer. I've yet to see Nestea even take on a solid protoss in a series yet. He only played Anypro (who can't handle a spinecrawler rush) and Inca (who is now 0-8 vs zerg) | ||
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