• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:28
CEST 03:28
KST 10:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers15Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid24
StarCraft 2
General
Maestros of the Game 2 announced 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 522 Flip My Base The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss Mutation # 520 Moving Fees
Brood War
General
Data needed ASL21 Strategy, Pimpest Plays Discussions ASL21 General Discussion Pros React To: ASL S21, Ro.16 Group C BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro16 Group C [ASL21] Ro16 Group D [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Diablo IV Dawn of War IV Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1448 users

[TSL] Ro4 Day 1 - Page 104

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 102 103 104 105 106 109 Next
On twitter? Let us know what you think with #tsl3 ! Help spread the word about today's amazing TvT!
hifriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
China7935 Posts
May 07 2011 20:34 GMT
#2061
On May 08 2011 05:32 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 05:24 shawnyee wrote:
On May 08 2011 05:18 Sneakyz wrote:
On May 08 2011 05:17 Nijel wrote:

And Bomber or Mvp would never be supply blocked that often lol.


At which point Thorzain was supply blocked ? It happened once or twice to Empire.Kas.

Nah, to be fair he got supply blocket quite a bit.


well to be fair, I think its the game that cant keep up with TZ, not the other way around.


no, just no. That makes no sense whatsoever. The game doesn't have to keep up with TZ.

^_^
WhiteraCares
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden339 Posts
May 07 2011 20:35 GMT
#2062
Naturally i was rooting for Thorzain, however it felt as if he was lacking in several areas. The kid is good, however hes got a long way to go before he can take on mkp, mvp, nestea, naniwa, mc and the like.
Eppa!
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden4641 Posts
May 07 2011 20:36 GMT
#2063
On May 08 2011 05:20 1Eris1 wrote:
Grats to thorzain, but you guys really need to rewatch some games if you think he's better then Bomber or MVP

TvT, maybe not, TvP very much so.
"Can't wait till Monday" Cixah+Waveofshadow. "Needs to be monday. Weekend please go by quickly." Gahlo
Incoherence
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6 Posts
May 07 2011 20:36 GMT
#2064
On May 08 2011 05:03 Haydin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 05:02 Incoherence wrote:
On May 08 2011 04:59 udgnim wrote:
guarantee more people are going to watch PvP tomorrow than today's awesome TvT lol

Yeah, it sucks that that's the case, because PvP is yawntastic. Even Naniwa and HasuObs can't save us from the boredom of having to watch two players follow the same tech tree.


Someone didn't watch cruncher vs naniwa.

Fair enough, but even that match-up consisted of the same old Protoss stuff. :|
Chicane
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7875 Posts
May 07 2011 20:37 GMT
#2065
On May 08 2011 05:34 mikyaJ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 05:30 Chicane wrote:
On May 08 2011 05:11 Telcontar wrote:
On May 08 2011 05:10 hifriend wrote:
On May 08 2011 05:05 Guthix wrote:
On May 08 2011 05:02 Kazang wrote:
These european Terrans are off the charts good. Even more impressive than MVP or Bomber imo.

Lol I don't think thorzain or kas could take a game off of either Mvp or Bomber. Yes they do well in the TSL, but I don't think you realize how much better Mvp and Bomber are. The european terrans are most definitely the best in the foreign world, but korean terrans would probably wreck them.

MC thinks european terrans are better than korean terrans.

That must be why he crushed Kas and lost to Polt!


That must be why he crushed MKP and lost to Thorzain!

Wow! Taking things in isolated context is fun and very accurate!

Last time MKP faced MC MKP won so I don't know where you're getting that.


I think you may have missed the point of my post...
Maliris
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Northern Ireland2557 Posts
May 07 2011 20:37 GMT
#2066
On May 08 2011 05:35 WhiteraCares wrote:
Naturally i was rooting for Thorzain, however it felt as if he was lacking in several areas. The kid is good, however hes got a long way to go before he can take on mkp, mvp, nestea, naniwa, mc and the like.

come on, you can't put naniwa in the same tier as the top4 players in SC2 -.- winning one MLG doesn't make you untouchable
"Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence, it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines."
Taryssa
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1628 Posts
May 07 2011 20:37 GMT
#2067
On May 08 2011 05:35 WhiteraCares wrote:
Naturally i was rooting for Thorzain, however it felt as if he was lacking in several areas. The kid is good, however hes got a long way to go before he can take on mkp, mvp, nestea, naniwa, mc and the like.



You are aware that he took out MC in this same tournament right?
Chicane
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7875 Posts
May 07 2011 20:38 GMT
#2068
On May 08 2011 05:37 Taryssa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 05:35 WhiteraCares wrote:
Naturally i was rooting for Thorzain, however it felt as if he was lacking in several areas. The kid is good, however hes got a long way to go before he can take on mkp, mvp, nestea, naniwa, mc and the like.



You are aware that he took out MC in this same tournament right?


Oh man... so many people base who is "better" off of a single match, or the most recent match.
Taryssa
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1628 Posts
May 07 2011 20:39 GMT
#2069
Just saying he can trade blows with the best and there is recent proof of thagt.
Torenhire
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States11681 Posts
May 07 2011 20:39 GMT
#2070
jhfekahjgfdsl;kh

I spent all day today working on my car, wasn't home in time for TSL.

Were the games epic? I'm so fucking happy with the results oh my god.

SirJolt: Well maybe if you weren't so big and stupid, it wouldn't have hit you.
GhostFall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States830 Posts
May 07 2011 20:39 GMT
#2071
On May 08 2011 05:38 Chicane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 05:37 Taryssa wrote:
On May 08 2011 05:35 WhiteraCares wrote:
Naturally i was rooting for Thorzain, however it felt as if he was lacking in several areas. The kid is good, however hes got a long way to go before he can take on mkp, mvp, nestea, naniwa, mc and the like.



You are aware that he took out MC in this same tournament right?


Oh man... so many people base who is "better" off of a single match, or the most recent match.


no one said he was better. but he's definiately proved he can take them on and hold his own.
TheBanana
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway2183 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-07 20:42:03
May 07 2011 20:40 GMT
#2072
On May 08 2011 05:24 shawnyee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 05:18 Sneakyz wrote:
On May 08 2011 05:17 Nijel wrote:
And Bomber or Mvp would never be supply blocked that often lol.


At which point Thorzain was supply blocked ? It happened once or twice to Empire.Kas.

Nah, to be fair he got supply blocket quite a bit.


Most of the supply blocks that were reported in the LR was inaccurate though.
Your not really supply blocked when your supply depot is 3 seconds from finishing and your minerals were already just spent.

It's called excellent timing.

Not to say it didn't happen it just did happen as much as people pretended.

Edit: Quote fail.
If you're not getting better faster than everybody else, you're getting worse.
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
May 07 2011 20:41 GMT
#2073
On May 08 2011 05:32 antelope591 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 05:26 SolonTLG wrote:
On May 08 2011 05:21 Azarkon wrote:
I think that part of the reason players like Thorzain is able to do so well with only a few weeks of preparation is that the bar for mechanics in SC 2 is significantly lower than in BW. Thus, people with solid RTS backgrounds, like Thorzain, are able to reach that level without years of practice, and the main thing that they have to prepare is strategy, game sense, and match-up understanding. Winning in SC 2 is much more about having good tactics and decision making abilities than it is about being able to sustain 300 APM through a match because you have to individually click each one of your SCVs and tell them to mine.


I can't tell if you think this is a good thing, or a bad thing, or just the way it is.

Personally, I would rather have an emphasis on "strategy, game sense, and match-up understanding" than on mechanics to make-up for old AI.


For a sport its def more of a bad thing than good thing. People watch the best players because of their amazing skill not because they can execute a gameplan. This applies to any sport...the mystique of players like flash and jd is in part of because they can do things no other person can no matter how much they practice...few players can sustain 500 apm while still executing perfectly. But anyway dont want to get into the whole bw sc2 thing.


Strategy always plays a huge part in sports, almost as much as skill does. Its why upsets happen in sports. This is why teams game plan so heavily.

Skill will get you to the top, no doubt about it. But great strategy will make you even better. Why did the Patriots win three Super Bowls with less skilled players? Because the system and strategy they ran was so good.

It works both ways. I can have the strategy that Thorzain just used, but I don't have the mechanics so I will only be able to go so far with that strategy. But if I have the mechanics of Idra and the strategy of a low masters player, that will only take me so far.

You need to have both to be successful in sc2. This is why players like MC, Nestea and MVP are so fucking good. Not only do they have great mechanics, but they have great strategy as well. As the game progresses we will see mechanics become more important because strategies will be adapted to. Right now a great strategy can beat a player with great mechanics because the game is young. A few years from now that might not be the case.
www.superbeerbrothers.com
antelope591
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada820 Posts
May 07 2011 20:41 GMT
#2074
Thorzain def deserves to win hes been the best prepared player in all his matches so far. But he needs more than 1 tourney result before we can place him among the best. Lets not get carried away
BBMorti
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark242 Posts
May 07 2011 20:41 GMT
#2075
On May 08 2011 05:38 Chicane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 05:37 Taryssa wrote:
On May 08 2011 05:35 WhiteraCares wrote:
Naturally i was rooting for Thorzain, however it felt as if he was lacking in several areas. The kid is good, however hes got a long way to go before he can take on mkp, mvp, nestea, naniwa, mc and the like.



You are aware that he took out MC in this same tournament right?


Oh man... so many people base who is "better" off of a single match, or the most recent match.

Mc said he is the best Terran he has ever played. I understand the great thing about being fanboys but too many people find Koreans to be some sort of super humans.. It must be easy to simply be judged better, always, simply based on where you live in the eyes of fans >.<
Hasse
Profile Joined November 2003
Sweden579 Posts
May 07 2011 20:41 GMT
#2076
On May 08 2011 05:32 antelope591 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 05:26 SolonTLG wrote:
On May 08 2011 05:21 Azarkon wrote:
I think that part of the reason players like Thorzain is able to do so well with only a few weeks of preparation is that the bar for mechanics in SC 2 is significantly lower than in BW. Thus, people with solid RTS backgrounds, like Thorzain, are able to reach that level without years of practice, and the main thing that they have to prepare is strategy, game sense, and match-up understanding. Winning in SC 2 is much more about having good tactics and decision making abilities than it is about being able to sustain 300 APM through a match because you have to individually click each one of your SCVs and tell them to mine.


I can't tell if you think this is a good thing, or a bad thing, or just the way it is.

Personally, I would rather have an emphasis on "strategy, game sense, and match-up understanding" than on mechanics to make-up for old AI.


For a sport its def more of a bad thing than good thing. People watch the best players because of their amazing skill not because they can execute a gameplan. This applies to any sport...the mystique of players like flash and jd is in part of because they can do things no other person can no matter how much they practice...few players can sustain 500 apm while still executing perfectly. But anyway dont want to get into the whole bw sc2 thing.

Depends if you count chess, poker and the likes as sports or not.
You can get alot more with a kind word and a gun, than just a kind word - Al Capone
Chicane
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7875 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-07 20:43:25
May 07 2011 20:42 GMT
#2077
On May 08 2011 05:39 Taryssa wrote:
Just saying he can trade blows with the best and there is recent proof of thagt.


By your same logic so can Adelscott and Goody. Would you also consider them to be on the level with Nestea MC MKP and MVP? I personally wouldn't.

Beating someone in a series of that caliber is impressive, but being consistently at the top is another story.

I am NOT saying that Thorzain is bad. I am NOT saying Thorzain is not capable of getting to that point but at this point he just isn't at their level.

And again... using your same logic I would disagree that Goody and Adelscott are even close simply because they beat one of those players.
Guthix
Profile Joined April 2011
United States209 Posts
May 07 2011 20:42 GMT
#2078
On May 08 2011 05:37 Maliris wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 05:35 WhiteraCares wrote:
Naturally i was rooting for Thorzain, however it felt as if he was lacking in several areas. The kid is good, however hes got a long way to go before he can take on mkp, mvp, nestea, naniwa, mc and the like.

come on, you can't put naniwa in the same tier as the top4 players in SC2 -.- winning one MLG doesn't make you untouchable

I actually agree, although going through the open bracket in MLG and not losing a single game until the finals match is pretty insane.
Naniwa fighting!
Chicane
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7875 Posts
May 07 2011 20:44 GMT
#2079
On May 08 2011 05:42 Guthix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 05:37 Maliris wrote:
On May 08 2011 05:35 WhiteraCares wrote:
Naturally i was rooting for Thorzain, however it felt as if he was lacking in several areas. The kid is good, however hes got a long way to go before he can take on mkp, mvp, nestea, naniwa, mc and the like.

come on, you can't put naniwa in the same tier as the top4 players in SC2 -.- winning one MLG doesn't make you untouchable

I actually agree, although going through the open bracket in MLG and not losing a single game until the finals match is pretty insane.


Ya there wasn't too much competition for him in the open bracket... but I think the real reason he looks so unbeatable is because... what has he even lost recently? To me he seems like a complete beast just because of his consistent results against amazing players.
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
May 07 2011 20:46 GMT
#2080
On May 08 2011 05:36 Eppa! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 05:20 1Eris1 wrote:
Grats to thorzain, but you guys really need to rewatch some games if you think he's better then Bomber or MVP

TvT, maybe not, TvP very much so.



Err, have you seen Bombers TvP? And MVP's has gotten a lot better.

Don't base things off one series. MC had never seen Thorzain's play before, he couldn't prepare for it.
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
Prev 1 102 103 104 105 106 109 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Code For Giants Cup LATAM #6
CranKy Ducklings103
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 152
ProTech125
Vindicta 95
ROOTCatZ 49
CosmosSc2 44
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5783
Artosis 679
Dota 2
monkeys_forever771
NeuroSwarm463
League of Legends
Doublelift4323
Counter-Strike
fl0m792
taco 82
m0e_tv72
Other Games
tarik_tv5599
C9.Mang0523
Trikslyr103
Maynarde102
ViBE40
JimRising 38
Mew2King36
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick929
BasetradeTV259
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 118
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 13
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt103
Other Games
• Scarra1094
Upcoming Events
Escore
8h 32m
RSL Revival
15h 32m
Big Brain Bouts
15h 32m
PiG vs DeMusliM
Reynor vs Bunny
Replay Cast
22h 32m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 9h
Classic vs SHIN
MaxPax vs Percival
herO vs Clem
ByuN vs Rogue
Ladder Legends
1d 13h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 13h
BSL
1d 17h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
[ Show More ]
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Soma vs hero
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Leta vs YSC
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-22
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Escore Tournament S2: W4
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.