On May 05 2011 20:01 dusthoof wrote:
Learn about soft and hard counters before watching or playing Starcraft. Countering isn't so direct like rock, paper, scissor

You forgot gun.

najreteip

Belgium4158 Posts

May 05 2011 11:04 GMT

#1444

On May 05 2011 20:04 Haydin wrote:

Show nested quote +

But with hydras already out? I'm not sure. 4 seconds of hydra dps before pheonixes get any lifts in seems like it could be pretty strong.

Not to mention fungal does a ton of damage to phoenix

Daralii

United States16991 Posts

May 05 2011 11:04 GMT

#1445

Anypro going void ray before phoenixes, NesTea's evo chamber is done.

Mycl

Australia1370 Posts

May 05 2011 11:04 GMT

#1446

A lone sentry from anypro denies an overlord from scouting the double stargate.

nihlon

Sweden5581 Posts

May 05 2011 11:04 GMT

#1447

On May 05 2011 20:01 Jehct wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 05 2011 19:56 Yaotzin wrote:

On May 05 2011 19:52 Jehct wrote:

On May 05 2011 19:50 Yaotzin wrote:

On May 05 2011 19:43 Jehct wrote:

On May 05 2011 19:42 SundeR. wrote:

On May 05 2011 19:41 Jehct wrote:

On May 05 2011 19:39 SundeR. wrote:

On May 05 2011 19:39 Moonwrath wrote:

On May 05 2011 19:38 Nolot wrote:
Nestea not confident in his macro it seems, going for 2 allin builds in a row

Jesus Christ are people really this dense or am I being trolled?

You're being trolled, for sure.

How is ling/hydra an all in when he still had money to expand, as well as he saw there was no colossus?

Attacking at any time without 4 bases is now an all-in, apparently.

If that push doesn't kill the opponent you're on 2 base with pure hydraling against colossus tech. That's a total all-in, that's like saying 2 base colossus timings aren't allin because you can skip a warp-in and grab a third - sure, but you're super behind for no benefit.

He could easily have retreated from a Colossus, and taken a third, and chilled.

Hell, if he had a faster colossus he could have even taken that out.

You have absolutely no way to hold the 2-3 colossus push that should be impending on your third from that position in the game. If that build doesn't do serious damage you're behind - the definition of an all-in.

No, that's the definition of a failed attack. Any attack that fails will leave you behind, duh! An allin is where you have no reasonable prospect of winning the game if it fails to deal heavy damage. Not just being behind.

I'm lost, I just described a situation where you are guaranteed to lose if the opponent does a standard timing push (by lose I mean lose your third and likely your natural a little later). That isn't just being behind O_o that's what happens when an all-in fails.

I don't agree you have no chance of holding the colossus push but anyways. I was responding to your final sentence. "If that build doesn't do serious damage you're behind" is the definition of a failed attack, not an allin. "If that build doesn't do serious damage you're fucked" is an allin.

Not taking into account that an "allin" that does guaranteed damage is simply solid play, and really shouldn't be associated with junk like scv allins.

I'm sorry I didn't say "very far behind" then, I guess - if you asked any zerg pro they would consider Nestea's position in both game one & two all-in, I'm sure.

People not understanding what an all-in is and how, in the right circumstances, they are a smart play, shouldn't mean we need to rename it.

Except it does need a different name since most people are using the word "all-in" as a derogatory term. If an "all-in" is guaranteed to do damage and are the correct response to what your opponent is doing, it shouldn't be called an all-in if people are going to continue using the term as they are doing.

VashTS

United States1675 Posts

May 05 2011 11:04 GMT

#1448

You know, maybe it's just me, but I would have totally done a soft contain and got my Infestor Tech out. Just 2 Infestors would have changed that whole Hydra bust... Though it probably would have taken a bit too much time.

Yaotzin

South Africa4280 Posts

May 05 2011 11:05 GMT

#1449

On May 05 2011 19:59 eluv wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'm confused. Maybe this is the next evolution of the metagame, but I"ve rarely seen anyone go spire against phoenixes, and what else would zerg be using to shoot them?

I guess against double stargate you really need the corruptors, but it's certainly been the case so far that hydras are the auto-answer to stargates.

There's a big difference between some phoenix - which are stopped by hydras, and MASS phoenix, a number that can pick up all your hydras. For the latter, you really need fungal and/or loads of corrupters.

proxY_

United States1561 Posts

May 05 2011 11:05 GMT

#1450

Nestea is sporing all his bases, he sees it.

antihero_

Netherlands494 Posts

May 05 2011 11:05 GMT

#1451

On May 05 2011 20:01 Telcontar wrote:
He didn't block his own nexus! Huzzah!

Damnit! Almost called it..

Maliris

Northern Ireland2557 Posts

May 05 2011 11:05 GMT

#1452

Yeah who is anypros girl

shes hot

Blasterion

China10272 Posts

May 05 2011 11:05 GMT

#1453

I can't help but giggle everytime I look at the OP post

Ayrie

United States213 Posts

May 05 2011 11:05 GMT

#1454

anypro forgoing warp gate tech in favor of +1 air weapons and fast double stargate off of his forge FE. nestea adds a third in the left center expo instead of his natural third.

i think nestea might not be prepared in time to hold this mass phoenix swarm that's inevitably coming. if nestea can hold the void ray / phoenix at home while he busts the front with roach bling, it might be enough to cause anypro to tap out.

Chaosvuistje

Netherlands2581 Posts

May 05 2011 11:05 GMT

#1455

Gom player you make me sad

Why bug out now?!

Need to watch nestea play!

Daralii

United States16991 Posts

May 05 2011 11:05 GMT

#1456

Baneling nest, roach warren, and +1 melee weapons coming out for NesTea... bwuh?

eluv

United States1251 Posts

May 05 2011 11:05 GMT

#1457

On May 05 2011 20:01 dusthoof wrote:
Learn about soft and hard counters before watching or playing Starcraft. Countering isn't so direct like rock, paper, scissor

Banelings, marines, and siege tanks would like to have a word with you.

So would vikings and battlecruisers. And Collosi and hydralisks.

Even if every counter is rock over scissors, there are still plenty of hard-counters in starcraft 2.