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NO BALANCE WHINING | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On April 30 2011 17:57 GwSC wrote: Do you understand that spines cost drones, and money? And Roaches also cost money? And if they keep you alive against an all in they are well worth it.God, I play Z most of the time but can we stop this whining? July lost that last game fair and square. | ||
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sm0b
United States157 Posts
On April 30 2011 17:56 pdd wrote: I don't think anypro knew about the 3rd expansion till he decided to push. I'm not sure though. Can't recall him scouting it. He might have sneaked a probe out or probably just assumed that there would have been an expansion by then. It's pretty common, maybe even standard, for Zerg's to take that 3rd expo in that particular situation. Otherwise they will end up falling behind in a macro game. If July wasn't going to take it, he would have attacked with a lot of units and I'm sure Anypro knows the timing for that if it were to come. | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On April 30 2011 17:57 Chise wrote: So on what information he scouted do you think he decided to Allin? I can't think of any information he got that would make an Allin more viable than a macro based game. All the information he needed was the finals between MC and July. He knew July was bad at defending Warpgate allins. Okay, so he struck at his opponent's weak point. A smart choice. Play to win, man. If I played against some hypothetical player who was the best macro player in the world but always died to, say, cannon rushes, then I'd be an idiot to not cannon rush him every time I played him. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On April 30 2011 17:56 Highwinds wrote: That was more funny that the best terran in the world couldn't stop a baneling bust (at least to myself). stopping allins often has very little to do with skill but more with guessing and luck. | ||
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Rayansaki
Portugal1266 Posts
On April 30 2011 17:57 Chise wrote: So on what information he scouted do you think he decided to Allin? I can't think of any information he got that would make an Allin more viable than a macro based game. All the information he needed was the finals between MC and July. He knew July was bad at defending Warpgate allins. You don't know what information he scouted? What about a double fast expand? | ||
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Skipton
United States707 Posts
On April 30 2011 17:59 bEnBo wrote: He was setting up backup pylons while waiting for an observer and and the armor to finish. Why dont you wipe your tears away and actually watch the game instead of crying about imbalance. I think you're taking a bit more offense to this than I am. He engaged at first without an observer. | ||
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GwSC
United States1997 Posts
On April 30 2011 17:59 windsupernova wrote: And if they keep you alive against an all in they are well worth it.God, I play Z most of the time but can we stop this whining? July lost that last game fair and square. Saying to just make 4-6 spine crawlers at your natural on 3 bases, without taking into consideration the income/drones/highly reduced Roach count is stupid. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On April 30 2011 17:59 Rifty wrote: His 2 base was fully saturated already, plus he had a robo to tech to colossus if his attack failed. Why can't he expo if the attack failed? He would have only had to stop half a wave of production to get enough money... July was too greedy and just didn't have enough units/upgrades to deal with the attack. People just want every game to be a 200/200 macro game with carriers motherships and every tech unit, but anybody thats played SC for more then 5 minutes know that just doesn't happen.. protoss units are much more expensive and losing all your sentries in an attack basically means you've lost because you won't be safe to expand to a third for a long time it's an all-in unless he damages july's economy horribly | ||
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bEnBo
United States144 Posts
On April 30 2011 17:59 Clog wrote: This condescending attitude is really uncalled for. A lot of zergs feel the matchup is imba, so they're going to talk about it on the forums, and calling them Bronze league scrubs isn't going to change anything. That is because they are, and the match up is not imbalanced. | ||
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diverzee
Sweden992 Posts
On April 30 2011 17:53 HolyArrow wrote: I was going to say exactly that to support you, but you beat me to it. If a player beats another player in a series, the winner was the better player in that series. Overall, maybe not, but in that series, definitely. Otherwise, he wouldn't have won. Pretty obvious, though many people don't like admitting it. How can you argue this? Noone can know who is the actual better player, so noone can know that the better player actually won. A game which isn't 100% balanced (as no game featuring 3 distinct races ever can be) does not automatically reward the better player. Not even in mirror matches do the better players always win if it's 7 pool vs hatch first. People are upset because in no matchup like ZvP lately have the audience so many times thought they saw the better player lose, and the lesser player win thanks to the advantages of his race when it comes to mind games, threat of allin and strong pushes, and sheer unit strength. | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On April 30 2011 17:59 Clog wrote: This condescending attitude is really uncalled for. A lot of zergs feel the matchup is imba, so they're going to talk about it on the forums, and calling them Bronze league scrubs isn't going to change anything. With the sheer amount of extreme anti-anyPro/Protoss flames going on, I think that a pretty insightful statement, despite being very condescending, is the least of the problems here. | ||
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
On April 30 2011 18:00 Rayansaki wrote: You don't know what information he scouted? What about a double fast expand? He didn't scout the double fast expand I think until he had decided to 7 gate. Not sure though have to rewatch the game. | ||
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Rayansaki
Portugal1266 Posts
On April 30 2011 17:57 Supamang wrote: go ahead and try it then. try busting through FFs with your roaches. laughable That's pretty cool specially considering he didnt have a cyber core until like 9 minutes into the game. | ||
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RedDragon571
United States633 Posts
Things that could have swung that game in julys favor. 1. when protss does Forge Fe, lair before speed is an option, so you can get a faster burrow and burrow movement. 2. sniping an obs is possibly in some situation 3. july had time to opt for a +1 carapace to negate the +1 4. a few roaches, or ling pressure to A. supply block anypro, or delay push 5.his use of changling wasn't that good , he could have been more subtle with it 6. A few spines may have helped? 7.I think if july searched burrow before roach speed, or burrow movement sooner, he would have been able to to handle that better, also his burrow timing was about 10 sec delayed after alir, because he opted for roach speed first 8.better creep spread with ovies could have delayed proxy pylon placement Overall july acted correctly but, that looked on the razor's edge. Z v P is not neccesarily imbalanced, but this isn't a common build, early FF are very punishing for zerg players and the new warpgate changes may help. July seems to be overall the better player, having a winning record against anypro, and anypro made a very non-code S mistake in game 2, were this a best of 5 i think the results would be different. | ||
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bEnBo
United States144 Posts
On April 30 2011 18:00 Skipton wrote: I think you're taking a bit more offense to this than I am. He engaged at first without an observer. He engaged just so he could get the pylon closer to the ramp.. but he couldnt commit because of burrow. | ||
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_Darwin_
United States2374 Posts
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Baeksucho
France46 Posts
On April 30 2011 17:52 Telcontar wrote: That's why I'm saying you need to rinse and repeat. Keep baiting those FFs until he runs out. Sure you might lose your 3rd but you can run your drones away and the constant baiting will give July time to get more units out. Once the FFs are gone, move in and crush the army. Even if you had lost the 3rd hatch in the process, you can counter attack and do damage/contain. To match the 4gate army production we need 2 hatch ( and 1 queen at least) in terms of larva and cost of units. That's why you often see people losing to 4gate even though they scouted and prepared it. It's because they forgot to inject one time and couldn't keep up with the protoss production ( so if you are protoss, if you manage to kill that 2nd hatch it's auto-win with reinforcement ) To match the 6/7 gate production ( which is almost 2time more units than 4gate ) you need 3 hatchs with queens larva-wise. Losing the third is auto-lose also. The only thing he could have done was catch the protoss army on his way instead of playing around his third | ||
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haylmfao
124 Posts
Didn't Artosis mention that they both had 48 workers each? Not sure but I think I heard him say that. Still, July had more stuff at the beginnning (food was like 130 to 100) but the forcefields made the Protoss army untouchable and he kept trying to push in. | ||
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Skipton
United States707 Posts
On April 30 2011 18:03 bEnBo wrote: He engaged just so he could get the pylon closer to the ramp.. but he couldnt commit because of burrow. You're giving him far more credit than I think he deserves. He engaged at that point in time in an attempt to kill the army or take the third out. He's not Alicia or MC. | ||
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bluestuff
Canada893 Posts
On April 30 2011 18:01 bEnBo wrote: That is because they are, and the match up is not imbalanced. Call it what you will but game 1 showed a clearly broken part of the meta game. The fact of the matter is that the nexus cancel is essentially a coin flip to decide the game, and frankly thats bullshit. July guessed wrong and even with Anypro losing the forward pylon, the probe, and the voidray he still loses because of the lack of an defenders advantage when facing warp gate. | ||
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