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On May 24 2011 11:08 Aristodemus wrote:
Go4sc2 EU is way higher standard every week than the IPL season 1 was.
Haha I'll agree with this.
Idra himself played off his win on SoTG: "It was a bunch of Americans."
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On May 24 2011 11:14 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 11:09 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 11:04 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:02 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 10:55 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 10:48 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 10:46 Chicane wrote:On May 24 2011 10:43 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 10:34 kheldorin wrote:
[quote]
He's only a master of PvP because of his micro but I think the Chinese players have micro that rivals his. And since these players are ex-WC3 pros, they should be pretty comfortable in a LAN environment especially in their own home country. PvP is basically 95% micro so I'd say that's fine. MC has sick macro, game sense and decision making too. Grubby, Moon and Lyn have showed that WC3 skills don't translate too well into Sc2 but we'll see. Kas, Thorzain, Naniwa and Hasuobs (top 4 TSL) showed that WC3 skills translate very well into Sc2. See how picking from a limited pool of players can be a bit ridiculous? I think it is best to take it on a player by player basis. Some people have adapted to the new game better than others. No, what it shows is that WC3 skills translate really poorly to Sc2 but that anyone who practices well can do well in Sc2 which is why lesser WC3 players like those four are better than top Wc3 like Grubby, Moon and Lyn. To be fair though Moon and Lyn have achieved more in Sc2 than Kas and Hasuobs. um, what? there's no logical way you can possibly draw that conclusion. Also, Kas and Hasu have achieved way more than Moon and Lyn in SC2. Lyn was Code S for two seasons and got a Ro8, that's a bigger achievement than anything Kas or Hasu have managed. Moon got second at IEM which is better than 2nd in Copenhagen for Kas and obviously better than anything Hasu has managed. Hasu and Kas have done more in foreign tournaments than Moon and Lyn. Not to mention the fact that Kas and Hasu are better than Moon and Lyn (pretty sure most people would agree with this). Random foreign tournaments don't really mean much if anything. Like Dimaga has won a million little tournaments as opposed to Nestea who's won two GSL's or Idra's who's won an IPL and an MLG, which is more impressive? You're obviously completely biased towards the Korean scene. Seeing as how the final four of the TSL were all European, "random foreign tournaments" obviously mean something. Also, you're comparing apples (Nestea) to oranges (Moon and Lyn). To even imply that Moon and Lyn are anywhere near Nestea is lolable. TSL is not a random foreign tournament. But neither Hasu or Kas won it, or made the final and reaching the semis of the TSL is nowhere near as hard as making Code S and reaching the Ro8. If you were to say Thorzain or Naniwa has achieved more than Lyn or Moon I'd agree with you. Everyone should be biased towards the Korean scene as it is of a considerably higher standard than EU or NA, so of course doing well in Korea means more than doing well elsewhere. Naturally if you do very well in EU/NA it outweighs KOR achievements, so for example Naniwa has achieved more than HongUn but Hasu has not achieved more than Inca. It's not a difficult concept to understand.
First of all, it's entirely debatable that the Korean scene is of "considerably higher standard." This isn't BW, and Koreans aren't owning every foreign tourney they play in. Secondly, Kas and Hasu have done very well in Europe, so you're pretty much contradicting yourself there.
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WC3 skills translate well to SC2, but not as well as those from BW.
Lyn and Moon have had less success than European ex-WC3 pros because they're up against far better players. Korean BW pros > WC3 pros > foreign BW amateurs in terms of RTS skill (generally). Moon and Lyn could both win tournaments in Europe, while the likes of HasuObs would get owned in Korea.
The reason lesser WC3 players are doing better in SC2 than the big names is mostly because they switched months earlier (BECAUSE they were less skilled and had nothing to play for in WC3). In time Grubby will be better than HasuObs and Happy will be one of, if not the, top players in Europe. Moon and Lyn are probably already better than most of the ex-WC3 players in Europe but it's hard for them to show it in Korea because the standard of competition is so high.
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On May 24 2011 10:46 TeWy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 10:43 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 10:34 kheldorin wrote:On May 24 2011 10:32 Blasphemi wrote:
I expect MC to take this now. He's a master of PvP and seems to excel in the LAN enviroment. He's only a master of PvP because of his micro but I think the Chinese players have micro that rivals his. And since these players are ex-WC3 pros, they should be pretty comfortable in a LAN environment especially in their own home country. PvP is basically 95% micro so I'd say that's fine. MC has sick macro, game sense and decision making too. Grubby, Moon and Lyn have showed that WC3 skills don't translate too well into Sc2 but we'll see. Top 4 TSL beg to differ.
I'd like to have someone answer this for me because I'm genuinely not trying to be ignorant here - when we say so and so was a WC3 player, at what level are we using that term. I know Moon/Grubby/Lyn were the mega-pros, but saying someone like Thorzain or Hasu is a War3 player, is that something along the lines of very casual clan/team playing, no actual tournament wins? I personally believe that much of the community is throwing or using the term former-BW/WC3 player very loosely here and it doesn't mean much if they were a blatant amateur or less in that respective game.
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On May 24 2011 11:18 iamahydralisk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 11:14 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 11:09 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 11:04 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:02 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 10:55 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 10:48 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 10:46 Chicane wrote:On May 24 2011 10:43 Blasphemi wrote:
[quote]
PvP is basically 95% micro so I'd say that's fine. MC has sick macro, game sense and decision making too.
Grubby, Moon and Lyn have showed that WC3 skills don't translate too well into Sc2 but we'll see.
Kas, Thorzain, Naniwa and Hasuobs (top 4 TSL) showed that WC3 skills translate very well into Sc2. See how picking from a limited pool of players can be a bit ridiculous? I think it is best to take it on a player by player basis. Some people have adapted to the new game better than others. No, what it shows is that WC3 skills translate really poorly to Sc2 but that anyone who practices well can do well in Sc2 which is why lesser WC3 players like those four are better than top Wc3 like Grubby, Moon and Lyn. To be fair though Moon and Lyn have achieved more in Sc2 than Kas and Hasuobs. um, what? there's no logical way you can possibly draw that conclusion. Also, Kas and Hasu have achieved way more than Moon and Lyn in SC2. Lyn was Code S for two seasons and got a Ro8, that's a bigger achievement than anything Kas or Hasu have managed. Moon got second at IEM which is better than 2nd in Copenhagen for Kas and obviously better than anything Hasu has managed. Hasu and Kas have done more in foreign tournaments than Moon and Lyn. Not to mention the fact that Kas and Hasu are better than Moon and Lyn (pretty sure most people would agree with this). Random foreign tournaments don't really mean much if anything. Like Dimaga has won a million little tournaments as opposed to Nestea who's won two GSL's or Idra's who's won an IPL and an MLG, which is more impressive? You're obviously completely biased towards the Korean scene. Seeing as how the final four of the TSL were all European, "random foreign tournaments" obviously mean something. Also, you're comparing apples (Nestea) to oranges (Moon and Lyn). To even imply that Moon and Lyn are anywhere near Nestea is lolable. TSL is not a random foreign tournament. But neither Hasu or Kas won it, or made the final and reaching the semis of the TSL is nowhere near as hard as making Code S and reaching the Ro8. If you were to say Thorzain or Naniwa has achieved more than Lyn or Moon I'd agree with you. Everyone should be biased towards the Korean scene as it is of a considerably higher standard than EU or NA, so of course doing well in Korea means more than doing well elsewhere. Naturally if you do very well in EU/NA it outweighs KOR achievements, so for example Naniwa has achieved more than HongUn but Hasu has not achieved more than Inca. It's not a difficult concept to understand. First of all, it's entirely debatable that the Korean scene is of "considerably higher standard." This isn't BW, and Koreans aren't owning every foreign tourney they play in. Secondly, Kas and Hasu have done very well in Europe, so you're pretty much contradicting yourself there.
Koreans are owning everyone in basically every LAN tournament so far with Europeans/Na/Koreans in attendance.
Ace at IEM
MC at Dreamhack/Copenhagen
Genius at Blizzcon
MVP at GSL World Tournament.
You would need to be very dumb to suggest Korea isn't better than everywhere else especially as many players such as Idra, TT1, Jinro, Huk, Naniwa, Thorzain have openly said so.
There's Dreamhack, MLG and NASL finals coming up within the next month or so, which will basically prove for the time being either way.
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On May 24 2011 11:21 cuppatea wrote:
WC3 skills translate well to SC2, but not as well as those from BW.
Lyn and Moon have had less success than European ex-WC3 pros because they're up against far better players. Korean BW pros > WC3 pros > foreign BW amateurs in terms of RTS skill (generally). Moon and Lyn could both win tournaments in Europe, while the likes of HasuObs would get owned in Korea.
The reason lesser WC3 players are doing better in SC2 than the big names is mostly because they switched months earlier (BECAUSE they were less skilled and had nothing to play for in WC3). In time Grubby will be better than HasuObs and Happy will be one of, if not the, top players in Europe. Moon and Lyn are probably already better than most of the ex-WC3 players in Europe but it's hard for them to show it in Korea because the standard of competition is so high.
This isn't BW. Koreans aren't leagues better than everyone else like they were in BW. In fact, whether they're even better at all is debatable. To act like it's undeniable fact that the Koreans are better is idiocy, quite frankly.
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I'm glad that the chinese players are playing well in general (well the Protoss are) since it can only help SC2 grow over there.
However having 4 protoss Semi is a worst case scenario. Even 4 zergs would be better imo since there is nothing more horrible to watch than PvP imo. Late-game ZvZ is interesting at least.
Poor tourny hosts >.<
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Guys, let's just wait for Dreamhack, okay?
(Too bad the Chinese players probably won't be attending, though. Ah, well. Can't have everything.)
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On May 24 2011 11:18 iamahydralisk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 11:14 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 11:09 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 11:04 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:02 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 10:55 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 10:48 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 10:46 Chicane wrote:On May 24 2011 10:43 Blasphemi wrote:
[quote]
PvP is basically 95% micro so I'd say that's fine. MC has sick macro, game sense and decision making too.
Grubby, Moon and Lyn have showed that WC3 skills don't translate too well into Sc2 but we'll see.
Kas, Thorzain, Naniwa and Hasuobs (top 4 TSL) showed that WC3 skills translate very well into Sc2. See how picking from a limited pool of players can be a bit ridiculous? I think it is best to take it on a player by player basis. Some people have adapted to the new game better than others. No, what it shows is that WC3 skills translate really poorly to Sc2 but that anyone who practices well can do well in Sc2 which is why lesser WC3 players like those four are better than top Wc3 like Grubby, Moon and Lyn. To be fair though Moon and Lyn have achieved more in Sc2 than Kas and Hasuobs. um, what? there's no logical way you can possibly draw that conclusion. Also, Kas and Hasu have achieved way more than Moon and Lyn in SC2. Lyn was Code S for two seasons and got a Ro8, that's a bigger achievement than anything Kas or Hasu have managed. Moon got second at IEM which is better than 2nd in Copenhagen for Kas and obviously better than anything Hasu has managed. Hasu and Kas have done more in foreign tournaments than Moon and Lyn. Not to mention the fact that Kas and Hasu are better than Moon and Lyn (pretty sure most people would agree with this). Random foreign tournaments don't really mean much if anything. Like Dimaga has won a million little tournaments as opposed to Nestea who's won two GSL's or Idra's who's won an IPL and an MLG, which is more impressive? You're obviously completely biased towards the Korean scene. Seeing as how the final four of the TSL were all European, "random foreign tournaments" obviously mean something. Also, you're comparing apples (Nestea) to oranges (Moon and Lyn). To even imply that Moon and Lyn are anywhere near Nestea is lolable. TSL is not a random foreign tournament. But neither Hasu or Kas won it, or made the final and reaching the semis of the TSL is nowhere near as hard as making Code S and reaching the Ro8. If you were to say Thorzain or Naniwa has achieved more than Lyn or Moon I'd agree with you. Everyone should be biased towards the Korean scene as it is of a considerably higher standard than EU or NA, so of course doing well in Korea means more than doing well elsewhere. Naturally if you do very well in EU/NA it outweighs KOR achievements, so for example Naniwa has achieved more than HongUn but Hasu has not achieved more than Inca. It's not a difficult concept to understand. First of all, it's entirely debatable that the Korean scene is of "considerably higher standard." This isn't BW, and Koreans aren't owning every foreign tourney they play in. Secondly, Kas and Hasu have done very well in Europe, so you're pretty much contradicting yourself there.
Ummm, what?
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On May 24 2011 11:24 iamahydralisk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 11:21 cuppatea wrote:
WC3 skills translate well to SC2, but not as well as those from BW.
Lyn and Moon have had less success than European ex-WC3 pros because they're up against far better players. Korean BW pros > WC3 pros > foreign BW amateurs in terms of RTS skill (generally). Moon and Lyn could both win tournaments in Europe, while the likes of HasuObs would get owned in Korea.
The reason lesser WC3 players are doing better in SC2 than the big names is mostly because they switched months earlier (BECAUSE they were less skilled and had nothing to play for in WC3). In time Grubby will be better than HasuObs and Happy will be one of, if not the, top players in Europe. Moon and Lyn are probably already better than most of the ex-WC3 players in Europe but it's hard for them to show it in Korea because the standard of competition is so high. This isn't BW. Koreans aren't leagues better than everyone else like they were in BW. In fact, whether they're even better at all is debatable. To act like it's undeniable fact that the Koreans are better is idiocy, quite frankly.
Please do demonstrate to me how on earth foreigners are as good as Koreans. Random Koreans like Ace/Squirtle/Moon are doing great in European LANS. Two of the top three Koreans have never even played at a European LAN and still Koreans are winning basically all of them.
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On May 24 2011 11:28 oo inflame oo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 11:18 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:14 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 11:09 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 11:04 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:02 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 10:55 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 10:48 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 10:46 Chicane wrote:
[quote]
Kas, Thorzain, Naniwa and Hasuobs (top 4 TSL) showed that WC3 skills translate very well into Sc2.
See how picking from a limited pool of players can be a bit ridiculous? I think it is best to take it on a player by player basis. Some people have adapted to the new game better than others. No, what it shows is that WC3 skills translate really poorly to Sc2 but that anyone who practices well can do well in Sc2 which is why lesser WC3 players like those four are better than top Wc3 like Grubby, Moon and Lyn. To be fair though Moon and Lyn have achieved more in Sc2 than Kas and Hasuobs. um, what? there's no logical way you can possibly draw that conclusion. Also, Kas and Hasu have achieved way more than Moon and Lyn in SC2. Lyn was Code S for two seasons and got a Ro8, that's a bigger achievement than anything Kas or Hasu have managed. Moon got second at IEM which is better than 2nd in Copenhagen for Kas and obviously better than anything Hasu has managed. Hasu and Kas have done more in foreign tournaments than Moon and Lyn. Not to mention the fact that Kas and Hasu are better than Moon and Lyn (pretty sure most people would agree with this). Random foreign tournaments don't really mean much if anything. Like Dimaga has won a million little tournaments as opposed to Nestea who's won two GSL's or Idra's who's won an IPL and an MLG, which is more impressive? You're obviously completely biased towards the Korean scene. Seeing as how the final four of the TSL were all European, "random foreign tournaments" obviously mean something. Also, you're comparing apples (Nestea) to oranges (Moon and Lyn). To even imply that Moon and Lyn are anywhere near Nestea is lolable. TSL is not a random foreign tournament. But neither Hasu or Kas won it, or made the final and reaching the semis of the TSL is nowhere near as hard as making Code S and reaching the Ro8. If you were to say Thorzain or Naniwa has achieved more than Lyn or Moon I'd agree with you. Everyone should be biased towards the Korean scene as it is of a considerably higher standard than EU or NA, so of course doing well in Korea means more than doing well elsewhere. Naturally if you do very well in EU/NA it outweighs KOR achievements, so for example Naniwa has achieved more than HongUn but Hasu has not achieved more than Inca. It's not a difficult concept to understand. First of all, it's entirely debatable that the Korean scene is of "considerably higher standard." This isn't BW, and Koreans aren't owning every foreign tourney they play in. Secondly, Kas and Hasu have done very well in Europe, so you're pretty much contradicting yourself there. Ummm, what?
Because a Korean player won the TSL, right?
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On May 24 2011 11:29 iamahydralisk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 11:28 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 24 2011 11:18 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:14 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 11:09 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 11:04 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:02 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 10:55 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 10:48 Blasphemi wrote:
[quote]
No, what it shows is that WC3 skills translate really poorly to Sc2 but that anyone who practices well can do well in Sc2 which is why lesser WC3 players like those four are better than top Wc3 like Grubby, Moon and Lyn.
To be fair though Moon and Lyn have achieved more in Sc2 than Kas and Hasuobs.
um, what? there's no logical way you can possibly draw that conclusion. Also, Kas and Hasu have achieved way more than Moon and Lyn in SC2. Lyn was Code S for two seasons and got a Ro8, that's a bigger achievement than anything Kas or Hasu have managed. Moon got second at IEM which is better than 2nd in Copenhagen for Kas and obviously better than anything Hasu has managed. Hasu and Kas have done more in foreign tournaments than Moon and Lyn. Not to mention the fact that Kas and Hasu are better than Moon and Lyn (pretty sure most people would agree with this). Random foreign tournaments don't really mean much if anything. Like Dimaga has won a million little tournaments as opposed to Nestea who's won two GSL's or Idra's who's won an IPL and an MLG, which is more impressive? You're obviously completely biased towards the Korean scene. Seeing as how the final four of the TSL were all European, "random foreign tournaments" obviously mean something. Also, you're comparing apples (Nestea) to oranges (Moon and Lyn). To even imply that Moon and Lyn are anywhere near Nestea is lolable. TSL is not a random foreign tournament. But neither Hasu or Kas won it, or made the final and reaching the semis of the TSL is nowhere near as hard as making Code S and reaching the Ro8. If you were to say Thorzain or Naniwa has achieved more than Lyn or Moon I'd agree with you. Everyone should be biased towards the Korean scene as it is of a considerably higher standard than EU or NA, so of course doing well in Korea means more than doing well elsewhere. Naturally if you do very well in EU/NA it outweighs KOR achievements, so for example Naniwa has achieved more than HongUn but Hasu has not achieved more than Inca. It's not a difficult concept to understand. First of all, it's entirely debatable that the Korean scene is of "considerably higher standard." This isn't BW, and Koreans aren't owning every foreign tourney they play in. Secondly, Kas and Hasu have done very well in Europe, so you're pretty much contradicting yourself there. Ummm, what? Because a Korean player won the TSL, right?
One online tournament where most of the Koreans went out gaming at 500ms matters more than 5 LANS apparently.
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On May 24 2011 11:25 On_Slaught wrote:
I'm glad that the chinese players are playing well in general (well the Protoss are) since it can only help SC2 grow over there.
However having 4 protoss Semi is a worst case scenario. Even 4 zergs would be better imo since there is nothing more horrible to watch than PvP imo. Late-game ZvZ is interesting at least.
Poor tourny hosts >.<
There were some good pvps in gstl this season and the mid and lategame is fun to watch now with archons getting more and more popular. xiaot vs MC has the potential to be amazing.
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On May 24 2011 11:29 iamahydralisk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 11:28 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 24 2011 11:18 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:14 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 11:09 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 11:04 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:02 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 10:55 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 10:48 Blasphemi wrote:
[quote]
No, what it shows is that WC3 skills translate really poorly to Sc2 but that anyone who practices well can do well in Sc2 which is why lesser WC3 players like those four are better than top Wc3 like Grubby, Moon and Lyn.
To be fair though Moon and Lyn have achieved more in Sc2 than Kas and Hasuobs.
um, what? there's no logical way you can possibly draw that conclusion. Also, Kas and Hasu have achieved way more than Moon and Lyn in SC2. Lyn was Code S for two seasons and got a Ro8, that's a bigger achievement than anything Kas or Hasu have managed. Moon got second at IEM which is better than 2nd in Copenhagen for Kas and obviously better than anything Hasu has managed. Hasu and Kas have done more in foreign tournaments than Moon and Lyn. Not to mention the fact that Kas and Hasu are better than Moon and Lyn (pretty sure most people would agree with this). Random foreign tournaments don't really mean much if anything. Like Dimaga has won a million little tournaments as opposed to Nestea who's won two GSL's or Idra's who's won an IPL and an MLG, which is more impressive? You're obviously completely biased towards the Korean scene. Seeing as how the final four of the TSL were all European, "random foreign tournaments" obviously mean something. Also, you're comparing apples (Nestea) to oranges (Moon and Lyn). To even imply that Moon and Lyn are anywhere near Nestea is lolable. TSL is not a random foreign tournament. But neither Hasu or Kas won it, or made the final and reaching the semis of the TSL is nowhere near as hard as making Code S and reaching the Ro8. If you were to say Thorzain or Naniwa has achieved more than Lyn or Moon I'd agree with you. Everyone should be biased towards the Korean scene as it is of a considerably higher standard than EU or NA, so of course doing well in Korea means more than doing well elsewhere. Naturally if you do very well in EU/NA it outweighs KOR achievements, so for example Naniwa has achieved more than HongUn but Hasu has not achieved more than Inca. It's not a difficult concept to understand. First of all, it's entirely debatable that the Korean scene is of "considerably higher standard." This isn't BW, and Koreans aren't owning every foreign tourney they play in. Secondly, Kas and Hasu have done very well in Europe, so you're pretty much contradicting yourself there. Ummm, what? Because a Korean player won the TSL, right?
Online tournaments literally mean nothing.
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On May 24 2011 11:35 oo inflame oo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 11:29 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:28 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 24 2011 11:18 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:14 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 11:09 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 11:04 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:02 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 10:55 iamahydralisk wrote:
[quote]
um, what? there's no logical way you can possibly draw that conclusion.
Also, Kas and Hasu have achieved way more than Moon and Lyn in SC2. Lyn was Code S for two seasons and got a Ro8, that's a bigger achievement than anything Kas or Hasu have managed. Moon got second at IEM which is better than 2nd in Copenhagen for Kas and obviously better than anything Hasu has managed. Hasu and Kas have done more in foreign tournaments than Moon and Lyn. Not to mention the fact that Kas and Hasu are better than Moon and Lyn (pretty sure most people would agree with this). Random foreign tournaments don't really mean much if anything. Like Dimaga has won a million little tournaments as opposed to Nestea who's won two GSL's or Idra's who's won an IPL and an MLG, which is more impressive? You're obviously completely biased towards the Korean scene. Seeing as how the final four of the TSL were all European, "random foreign tournaments" obviously mean something. Also, you're comparing apples (Nestea) to oranges (Moon and Lyn). To even imply that Moon and Lyn are anywhere near Nestea is lolable. TSL is not a random foreign tournament. But neither Hasu or Kas won it, or made the final and reaching the semis of the TSL is nowhere near as hard as making Code S and reaching the Ro8. If you were to say Thorzain or Naniwa has achieved more than Lyn or Moon I'd agree with you. Everyone should be biased towards the Korean scene as it is of a considerably higher standard than EU or NA, so of course doing well in Korea means more than doing well elsewhere. Naturally if you do very well in EU/NA it outweighs KOR achievements, so for example Naniwa has achieved more than HongUn but Hasu has not achieved more than Inca. It's not a difficult concept to understand. First of all, it's entirely debatable that the Korean scene is of "considerably higher standard." This isn't BW, and Koreans aren't owning every foreign tourney they play in. Secondly, Kas and Hasu have done very well in Europe, so you're pretty much contradicting yourself there. Ummm, what? Because a Korean player won the TSL, right? Online tournaments literally mean nothing.
lol
I can tell that this is going to go absolutely nowhere if you believe that. Not even gonna bother.
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White-Ra almost defeated MC at Dreamhack IIRC.
And Thorzain beat MC while both were playing from Europe, so latency is not really an excuse.
LAN isn't everything, especially in SC 2 where most of the big leagues outside of Korea are played online.
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I think the big difference between korean and foreigner WC3 pros is the time they have had to adapt.
Thorzain, Hasuobs, Kas etc. have been playing SC2 since the game came out. They were relatively unknown for the first half year or so in their SC2 careers. That is because the game is very different from WC3 and takes a ton of time to adapt to. Now that they have fully adapted, they are among the best players in NA/Europe (maybe the world?).
On the other hand, Moon/Lyn haven't had much time to adapt. They've been playing for 4 months (or so) seriously. Lyn has progressed at a slightly faster rate then Moon but I don't believe either player has topped out in terms of where they can be. Same deal with Grubby.
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On May 24 2011 11:36 iamahydralisk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 11:35 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 24 2011 11:29 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:28 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 24 2011 11:18 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:14 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 11:09 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On May 24 2011 11:04 iamahydralisk wrote:On May 24 2011 11:02 Blasphemi wrote:
[quote]
Lyn was Code S for two seasons and got a Ro8, that's a bigger achievement than anything Kas or Hasu have managed.
Moon got second at IEM which is better than 2nd in Copenhagen for Kas and obviously better than anything Hasu has managed.
Hasu and Kas have done more in foreign tournaments than Moon and Lyn. Not to mention the fact that Kas and Hasu are better than Moon and Lyn (pretty sure most people would agree with this). Random foreign tournaments don't really mean much if anything. Like Dimaga has won a million little tournaments as opposed to Nestea who's won two GSL's or Idra's who's won an IPL and an MLG, which is more impressive? You're obviously completely biased towards the Korean scene. Seeing as how the final four of the TSL were all European, "random foreign tournaments" obviously mean something. Also, you're comparing apples (Nestea) to oranges (Moon and Lyn). To even imply that Moon and Lyn are anywhere near Nestea is lolable. TSL is not a random foreign tournament. But neither Hasu or Kas won it, or made the final and reaching the semis of the TSL is nowhere near as hard as making Code S and reaching the Ro8. If you were to say Thorzain or Naniwa has achieved more than Lyn or Moon I'd agree with you. Everyone should be biased towards the Korean scene as it is of a considerably higher standard than EU or NA, so of course doing well in Korea means more than doing well elsewhere. Naturally if you do very well in EU/NA it outweighs KOR achievements, so for example Naniwa has achieved more than HongUn but Hasu has not achieved more than Inca. It's not a difficult concept to understand. First of all, it's entirely debatable that the Korean scene is of "considerably higher standard." This isn't BW, and Koreans aren't owning every foreign tourney they play in. Secondly, Kas and Hasu have done very well in Europe, so you're pretty much contradicting yourself there. Ummm, what? Because a Korean player won the TSL, right? Online tournaments literally mean nothing. lol I can tell that this is going to go absolutely nowhere if you believe that. Not even gonna bother.
Next time you play Sc2 load up a few torrents first and maybe stream some sopcast stuff so you have 500ms+ and see how well you play.
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Makes me sick how people try to downplay player's achievements.
Fucking disgusting.
Great job by the Chinese players who managed to beat some very strong NA/EU/KR players in this tournament.
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On May 24 2011 11:37 Azarkon wrote:
White-Ra almost defeated MC at Dreamhack IIRC.
And Thorzain beat MC while both were playing from Europe, so latency is not really an excuse.
LAN isn't everything, especially in SC 2 where most of the big leagues outside of Korea are played online.
This always makes me laugh, why do people point to that one game where MC lost 3-2 to Thorzain to a strat that was so op Blizzard immediately nerfed it (very rare for them). Why does that game matter so much when people completely ignore that MC has beaten:
Morrow 2-0, 2-0, 3-1 across three differrent tournaments
White Ra 3-2, 3-0.
Idra 2-0
Kas 4-0
Why does that one 3-2 match matter more than the combined efforts of the 7 games I listed?
MC's record versus foreigners is massively in favour of the theory that Koreans are a cut above foreigners not vice versa.
His record while playing on the same server as top foreigners is 21 wins and 6 losses. That is an insane good record.
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