• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:44
CEST 07:44
KST 14:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway122v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature3Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18Serral wins EWC 202549
Community News
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris7Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again! RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : I made a 5.0.12/5.0.13 replay fix Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull
Brood War
General
Victoria gamers Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL New season has just come in ladder BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro24 Group C Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [ASL20] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
The Biochemical Cost of Gami…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 913 users

[TSL] Ro32 Day 4 - Page 416

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 414 415 416 417 418 422 Next
Balance whining will result in a ban
bokeevboke
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Singapore1674 Posts
March 28 2011 09:55 GMT
#8301
On March 28 2011 18:17 Rielle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 17:13 WhiteDog wrote:
On March 28 2011 16:44 Drazzzt wrote:
After reading some of the discussion here on this thread and now watching the cruncher vs idra series I just have to say:
Idra's play was _atrocious_ and he absolutely deserved to lose. In the first game his decision making was non-existent and he didn't seem to understand the ZvP matchup AT ALL.
In the last game, he simply didn't scout properly and misjudged the incoming push (making drones instead of troops).
Combining this with his pre-game arrogance and in-game BM, it's hard to bear.
I usually respect Idra, but he seriously has to rethink his game and behavior.

You must be a low level player for saying such a thing, or you just did not see the same match as me.
IdrA scouted a lot in game 3, he sacked 2 overlord and had a drone in cruncher's base for a minute or so, plus 4 zerglings waiting for the protoss to make a move.



LOL you're calling Drazzzt a "low level" player and your proof is the way IdrA scouted game 3?

1. The first drone scout for that super massive "1 minute" is almost completely useless. Its purpose is to see if there is any proxying. Everyone knows that a protoss will get a Stalker/Sentry out to kill that drone before exposing any build.

2. The first sacked overlord saw 2 gates. There are many build you could "guess" he is going to do but nothing definitive.

3. The second sacked overlord saw the expo and 1 gate. So he knows there is an expo and 3 gates. Once again there are lots of builds you could "guess" from this but nothing definitive.

4. The lings are to detect the first push from the protoss. And here is where IdrA failed, and failed HARD!

He saw the push and builds a few Roaches but also builds 7 probes! You're gonna defend a Protoss push by wasting your larva on drones?


You should look in the mirror before you start putting people down. Or increase your own knowledge of the game first.


You say about problems but do not offer any solution. Basically IdrA had to guess anything since he didn't see anything. What if IdrA blindly made army and Cruncher went for Colossi/VoidRays composition, I'm pretty sure IdrA would lose that. I assume IdrA was expecting Colossi/VoidRays since it played really well in game 1 for Cruncher.

Many protoss players do fake-push, walking to the middle of the map forcing zerg build army, while expanding themselves. In game 3 IdrA was thinking that it was one of those.

As for game 1, please tell us what idra should've done against Cruncher's 'death ball'? I cannot find any answer for that.
Its grack
Karots
Profile Joined January 2011
United States79 Posts
March 28 2011 10:25 GMT
#8302
"As for game 1, please tell us what idra should've done against Cruncher's 'death ball'? I cannot find any answer for that."

I might be wrong here but, maybe he shouldn't have let him get to that point. Just an idea i had kicking around.
i has a karot
Rielle
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia91 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 10:32:25
March 28 2011 10:30 GMT
#8303
On March 28 2011 18:55 bokeevboke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 18:17 Rielle wrote:
On March 28 2011 17:13 WhiteDog wrote:
On March 28 2011 16:44 Drazzzt wrote:
After reading some of the discussion here on this thread and now watching the cruncher vs idra series I just have to say:
Idra's play was _atrocious_ and he absolutely deserved to lose. In the first game his decision making was non-existent and he didn't seem to understand the ZvP matchup AT ALL.
In the last game, he simply didn't scout properly and misjudged the incoming push (making drones instead of troops).
Combining this with his pre-game arrogance and in-game BM, it's hard to bear.
I usually respect Idra, but he seriously has to rethink his game and behavior.

You must be a low level player for saying such a thing, or you just did not see the same match as me.
IdrA scouted a lot in game 3, he sacked 2 overlord and had a drone in cruncher's base for a minute or so, plus 4 zerglings waiting for the protoss to make a move.



LOL you're calling Drazzzt a "low level" player and your proof is the way IdrA scouted game 3?

1. The first drone scout for that super massive "1 minute" is almost completely useless. Its purpose is to see if there is any proxying. Everyone knows that a protoss will get a Stalker/Sentry out to kill that drone before exposing any build.

2. The first sacked overlord saw 2 gates. There are many build you could "guess" he is going to do but nothing definitive.

3. The second sacked overlord saw the expo and 1 gate. So he knows there is an expo and 3 gates. Once again there are lots of builds you could "guess" from this but nothing definitive.

4. The lings are to detect the first push from the protoss. And here is where IdrA failed, and failed HARD!

He saw the push and builds a few Roaches but also builds 7 probes! You're gonna defend a Protoss push by wasting your larva on drones?


You should look in the mirror before you start putting people down. Or increase your own knowledge of the game first.


You say about problems but do not offer any solution. Basically IdrA had to guess anything since he didn't see anything. What if IdrA blindly made army and Cruncher went for Colossi/VoidRays composition, I'm pretty sure IdrA would lose that. I assume IdrA was expecting Colossi/VoidRays since it played really well in game 1 for Cruncher.

Many protoss players do fake-push, walking to the middle of the map forcing zerg build army, while expanding themselves. In game 3 IdrA was thinking that it was one of those.

As for game 1, please tell us what idra should've done against Cruncher's 'death ball'? I cannot find any answer for that.



I didn't say i was going to offer any solution. I was simply trying to show how he was not "proving" anything with his statements.

I haven't even watched game 1. I don't plan to. I can't stand watching foreigners play. I watch the GSL only.

As for "blindly" making units while the Protoss gets Colossi/Voids he saw ~10 sentries. You can't go robo/stargate and make ~10 sentries. The sentries take up almost all of the gas. His push was clearly a push to kill/win. Not to fake the zerg out.
Maj_sm_jz
Profile Joined October 2007
Slovenia7 Posts
March 28 2011 10:31 GMT
#8304
Hello, can anyone tell me where the TSL is played? Is it a public event (i.e. in Korea) or do players play from their home PCs? Thank you for the information!
WILL KILL FOR MONEY
Wesso
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands1245 Posts
March 28 2011 10:35 GMT
#8305
On March 28 2011 19:31 Maj_sm_jz wrote:
Hello, can anyone tell me where the TSL is played? Is it a public event (i.e. in Korea) or do players play from their home PCs? Thank you for the information!


The games are played from their homes. That's why there is all the whine about lag.
Kazang
Profile Joined August 2010
578 Posts
March 28 2011 10:36 GMT
#8306
On March 28 2011 19:31 Maj_sm_jz wrote:
Hello, can anyone tell me where the TSL is played? Is it a public event (i.e. in Korea) or do players play from their home PCs? Thank you for the information!


It's online, they can play from anywhere, so most play from their home PC.
RoseTempest
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada196 Posts
March 28 2011 10:44 GMT
#8307
On March 28 2011 15:34 ABOOMAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
In the end Idra is just being Idra, from his BW failures to his mediocrity in SC2


i dont think being top5 Z in the world equals mediocrity


Enlighten me on how you calculated Zerg positions in the world?

Yeah.. I thought so...
AndAgain
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2621 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 10:49:39
March 28 2011 10:49 GMT
#8308
nm
All your teeth should fall out and hair should grow in their place!
Maj_sm_jz
Profile Joined October 2007
Slovenia7 Posts
March 28 2011 11:05 GMT
#8309
On March 28 2011 19:35 Wesso wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 19:31 Maj_sm_jz wrote:
Hello, can anyone tell me where the TSL is played? Is it a public event (i.e. in Korea) or do players play from their home PCs? Thank you for the information!


The games are played from their homes. That's why there is all the whine about lag.


Thank you Wesso and Kazang. Do you know what is the time interval between the games and actual stream? How do they make sure the info about winners does not get out?
WILL KILL FOR MONEY
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 11:23:08
March 28 2011 11:14 GMT
#8310
On March 28 2011 18:17 Rielle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 17:13 WhiteDog wrote:
On March 28 2011 16:44 Drazzzt wrote:
After reading some of the discussion here on this thread and now watching the cruncher vs idra series I just have to say:
Idra's play was _atrocious_ and he absolutely deserved to lose. In the first game his decision making was non-existent and he didn't seem to understand the ZvP matchup AT ALL.
In the last game, he simply didn't scout properly and misjudged the incoming push (making drones instead of troops).
Combining this with his pre-game arrogance and in-game BM, it's hard to bear.
I usually respect Idra, but he seriously has to rethink his game and behavior.

You must be a low level player for saying such a thing, or you just did not see the same match as me.
IdrA scouted a lot in game 3, he sacked 2 overlord and had a drone in cruncher's base for a minute or so, plus 4 zerglings waiting for the protoss to make a move.



LOL you're calling Drazzzt a "low level" player and your proof is the way IdrA scouted game 3?

1. The first drone scout for that super massive "1 minute" is almost completely useless. Its purpose is to see if there is any proxying. Everyone knows that a protoss will get a Stalker/Sentry out to kill that drone before exposing any build.

2. The first sacked overlord saw 2 gates. There are many build you could "guess" he is going to do but nothing definitive.

3. The second sacked overlord saw the expo and 1 gate. So he knows there is an expo and 3 gates. Once again there are lots of builds you could "guess" from this but nothing definitive.

4. The lings are to detect the first push from the protoss. And here is where IdrA failed, and failed HARD!

He saw the push and builds a few Roaches but also builds 7 probes! You're gonna defend a Protoss push by wasting your larva on drones?


You should look in the mirror before you start putting people down. Or increase your own knowledge of the game first.

Seriously ?
1. The drone prevented Cruncher from going 4 gate, scouted chrono on warp gate, forced cruncher to make a quick stalker, scouted the number of gate, prevented cruncher from doing any kind of stargate play... Are you seriously trolling ? Having such a scout early game is a great plus at this level.
2. Yes
3. Yes, so what ? What do you want him to do more he just basically sacrificed two overlord just to scout, you want him to launch his entire overlord fleet to scout the full 6 gates ?
4. No he did not failed, Cruncher first got out of his base, and IdrA retreated his ling. Then Cruncher just delayed his push, killed the lings near the second natural, thus leading IdrA into thinking cruncher would expand ? Then he delayed again, made a pylon, and goes for a FFspamming-Win-smiley combo.

The only thing that IdrA sucked at is playing safe. His scouting was as good as it can get with slow overlord and wall in from protoss.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
artanis2
Profile Joined April 2010
United States732 Posts
March 28 2011 11:16 GMT
#8311
On March 28 2011 17:13 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 16:44 Drazzzt wrote:
After reading some of the discussion here on this thread and now watching the cruncher vs idra series I just have to say:
Idra's play was _atrocious_ and he absolutely deserved to lose. In the first game his decision making was non-existent and he didn't seem to understand the ZvP matchup AT ALL.
In the last game, he simply didn't scout properly and misjudged the incoming push (making drones instead of troops).
Combining this with his pre-game arrogance and in-game BM, it's hard to bear.
I usually respect Idra, but he seriously has to rethink his game and behavior.

You must be a low level player for saying such a thing, or you just did not see the same match as me.
IdrA scouted a lot in game 3, he sacked 2 overlord and had a drone in cruncher's base for a minute or so, plus 4 zerglings waiting for the protoss to make a move.


And even with two overlords IdrA made the wrong decision. Who is the better player again? Cruncher knew IdrA wouldn't be expecting early aggression because of what he scouted so what should he do? He pushed, and won. Tell me now who the better player actually is.

Seems to me if Cruncher is bad IdrA must be worse. Either that or Cruncher is actually much better than you think, but you just want to dickride your hero some more and never accept defeat. IdrA lost, again.
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 11:23:50
March 28 2011 11:20 GMT
#8312
On March 28 2011 20:16 artanis2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 17:13 WhiteDog wrote:
On March 28 2011 16:44 Drazzzt wrote:
After reading some of the discussion here on this thread and now watching the cruncher vs idra series I just have to say:
Idra's play was _atrocious_ and he absolutely deserved to lose. In the first game his decision making was non-existent and he didn't seem to understand the ZvP matchup AT ALL.
In the last game, he simply didn't scout properly and misjudged the incoming push (making drones instead of troops).
Combining this with his pre-game arrogance and in-game BM, it's hard to bear.
I usually respect Idra, but he seriously has to rethink his game and behavior.

You must be a low level player for saying such a thing, or you just did not see the same match as me.
IdrA scouted a lot in game 3, he sacked 2 overlord and had a drone in cruncher's base for a minute or so, plus 4 zerglings waiting for the protoss to make a move.


And even with two overlords IdrA made the wrong decision. Who is the better player again? Cruncher knew IdrA wouldn't be expecting early aggression because of what he scouted so what should he do? He pushed, and won. Tell me now who the better player actually is.

Seems to me if Cruncher is bad IdrA must be worse. Either that or Cruncher is actually much better than you think, but you just want to dickride your hero some more and never accept defeat. IdrA lost, again.

With two overlords he just scouted three gates and one expand. That's the state of the game, IdrA is basically whining about it since beta, what do you want him to do more?
He bet that Cruncher was going for a third, he lost, GG, nothing else to say.

Stop saying it has anything to do with IdrA being bad or overated player or Cruncher being better. I'm not saying he is good, he is just certainly NOT bad.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Rielle
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia91 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 11:25:48
March 28 2011 11:23 GMT
#8313
On March 28 2011 20:14 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 18:17 Rielle wrote:
On March 28 2011 17:13 WhiteDog wrote:
On March 28 2011 16:44 Drazzzt wrote:
After reading some of the discussion here on this thread and now watching the cruncher vs idra series I just have to say:
Idra's play was _atrocious_ and he absolutely deserved to lose. In the first game his decision making was non-existent and he didn't seem to understand the ZvP matchup AT ALL.
In the last game, he simply didn't scout properly and misjudged the incoming push (making drones instead of troops).
Combining this with his pre-game arrogance and in-game BM, it's hard to bear.
I usually respect Idra, but he seriously has to rethink his game and behavior.

You must be a low level player for saying such a thing, or you just did not see the same match as me.
IdrA scouted a lot in game 3, he sacked 2 overlord and had a drone in cruncher's base for a minute or so, plus 4 zerglings waiting for the protoss to make a move.



LOL you're calling Drazzzt a "low level" player and your proof is the way IdrA scouted game 3?

1. The first drone scout for that super massive "1 minute" is almost completely useless. Its purpose is to see if there is any proxying. Everyone knows that a protoss will get a Stalker/Sentry out to kill that drone before exposing any build.

2. The first sacked overlord saw 2 gates. There are many build you could "guess" he is going to do but nothing definitive.

3. The second sacked overlord saw the expo and 1 gate. So he knows there is an expo and 3 gates. Once again there are lots of builds you could "guess" from this but nothing definitive.

4. The lings are to detect the first push from the protoss. And here is where IdrA failed, and failed HARD!

He saw the push and builds a few Roaches but also builds 7 probes! You're gonna defend a Protoss push by wasting your larva on drones?


You should look in the mirror before you start putting people down. Or increase your own knowledge of the game first.

Seriously ?
1. The drone prevented Cruncher from going 4 gate, scouted chrono on warp gate, forced cruncher to make a quick stalker... Are you seriously trolling ? Having such a scout early game is a great plus at this level.
2. Yes
3. Yes, so what ? What do you want him to do more he just basically sacrificed two overlord just to scout, you want him to launch his entire overlord fleet to scout the 6 gates ?
4. No he did not failed, Cruncher first got out of his base, and IdrA retreated his ling. Then Cruncher just delayed his push, killed the lings near the second natural, thus leading IdrA into thinking cruncher would expand ? Then he delayed again, made a pylon, and goes for a FFspamming Win and smiley combo.

The only thing that IdrA sucked at is playing safe. His scouting was as good as it can get with slow overlord and wall in from protoss.



1. LOL the drone "prevented" him from going 4 gate. I'm not even going to bother saying anything about how bad you made yourself sound with that. And "scouting chrono on warpgate" hmmm i wonder why a protoss might chrono his warpgate upgrade? Maybe to get lots of wargates and rush. Kinda obvious isn't?

2+3. Yes he scouted but got very little info. I didn't say it was bad. I just said it was meaningless because any build could still be coming.

4. Yes he failed. Anyone who thinks he didn't fail is just a pure IdrA fan boy. You see chrono warpgates and ~10 sentries. Its 100% an attack to win/kill. 100%. No other option. You don't chrono the warpgate upgrade and make ~10 sentries to get a 2nd expo.
Xayoz
Profile Joined December 2010
Estonia373 Posts
March 28 2011 11:29 GMT
#8314
Rather hilarious that Idra keeps commenting on the skill of other players while doing a remarkable job not proving he's own.
I must say, after all that BM from Idra, I would have most certainly went beyond just typing a ' ' in that last game.

Good to see at least some koreans advancing as well.
Whenever you correct someone's grammar just remember that nobody likes you.
ambra
Profile Joined August 2010
Italy80 Posts
March 28 2011 11:29 GMT
#8315
no gg in official context? kinda silly
smiley faces during the game? extremely silly
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
March 28 2011 11:34 GMT
#8316
On March 28 2011 20:23 Rielle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 20:14 WhiteDog wrote:
On March 28 2011 18:17 Rielle wrote:
On March 28 2011 17:13 WhiteDog wrote:
On March 28 2011 16:44 Drazzzt wrote:
After reading some of the discussion here on this thread and now watching the cruncher vs idra series I just have to say:
Idra's play was _atrocious_ and he absolutely deserved to lose. In the first game his decision making was non-existent and he didn't seem to understand the ZvP matchup AT ALL.
In the last game, he simply didn't scout properly and misjudged the incoming push (making drones instead of troops).
Combining this with his pre-game arrogance and in-game BM, it's hard to bear.
I usually respect Idra, but he seriously has to rethink his game and behavior.

You must be a low level player for saying such a thing, or you just did not see the same match as me.
IdrA scouted a lot in game 3, he sacked 2 overlord and had a drone in cruncher's base for a minute or so, plus 4 zerglings waiting for the protoss to make a move.



LOL you're calling Drazzzt a "low level" player and your proof is the way IdrA scouted game 3?

1. The first drone scout for that super massive "1 minute" is almost completely useless. Its purpose is to see if there is any proxying. Everyone knows that a protoss will get a Stalker/Sentry out to kill that drone before exposing any build.

2. The first sacked overlord saw 2 gates. There are many build you could "guess" he is going to do but nothing definitive.

3. The second sacked overlord saw the expo and 1 gate. So he knows there is an expo and 3 gates. Once again there are lots of builds you could "guess" from this but nothing definitive.

4. The lings are to detect the first push from the protoss. And here is where IdrA failed, and failed HARD!

He saw the push and builds a few Roaches but also builds 7 probes! You're gonna defend a Protoss push by wasting your larva on drones?


You should look in the mirror before you start putting people down. Or increase your own knowledge of the game first.

Seriously ?
1. The drone prevented Cruncher from going 4 gate, scouted chrono on warp gate, forced cruncher to make a quick stalker... Are you seriously trolling ? Having such a scout early game is a great plus at this level.
2. Yes
3. Yes, so what ? What do you want him to do more he just basically sacrificed two overlord just to scout, you want him to launch his entire overlord fleet to scout the 6 gates ?
4. No he did not failed, Cruncher first got out of his base, and IdrA retreated his ling. Then Cruncher just delayed his push, killed the lings near the second natural, thus leading IdrA into thinking cruncher would expand ? Then he delayed again, made a pylon, and goes for a FFspamming Win and smiley combo.

The only thing that IdrA sucked at is playing safe. His scouting was as good as it can get with slow overlord and wall in from protoss.



1. LOL the drone "prevented" him from going 4 gate. I'm not even going to bother saying anything about how bad you made yourself sound with that. And "scouting chrono on warpgate" hmmm i wonder why a protoss might chrono his warpgate? Maybe to get lots of wargates and rush. Kinda obvious isn't?

2+3. Yes he scouted but got very little info. I didn't say it was bad. I just said it was meaningless because any build could still be coming.

4. Yes he failed. Anyone who thinks he didn't fail is just a pure IdrA fan boy. You see chrono warpgates and ~10 sentries. Its 100% an attack to win/kill. 100%. No other option. You don't chrono warpgate and make ~10 sentries to get a 2nd expo.

Are you serious? Don't you understand that going a 4gate and being scouted when you build the 4gate is like giving a freewin to your opponent ? With the drone, he prevented cruncher from making those 3 more warpgate long enough. I'm pretty sure that's why cruncher expanded. His expo timing was weird, using two + chronoboost on warp gate tech is not standard with such a fast expand, that's more like giving a free "I'm rushing you", but that kind of "I'm rushing you" is not viable at a certain level because the zerg just have to put static defense and win.
2+3 = But that's how you play zerg. You got to sack those overlord at certain timing because you have no other tools to scout and you can basically loose to a various type of strategy (from stargate play to 6 gate or dt).
4. Cruncher had 6 sentries, that's not off chart number of sentries... That's what I almost see everygame with a 3gate expand. The give away is more the number of stalker. IdrA sucked at not making spine crawlers and still producing drone I agree. He betted wrong.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Rielle
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia91 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 11:41:37
March 28 2011 11:40 GMT
#8317
On March 28 2011 20:34 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 20:23 Rielle wrote:
On March 28 2011 20:14 WhiteDog wrote:
On March 28 2011 18:17 Rielle wrote:
On March 28 2011 17:13 WhiteDog wrote:
On March 28 2011 16:44 Drazzzt wrote:
After reading some of the discussion here on this thread and now watching the cruncher vs idra series I just have to say:
Idra's play was _atrocious_ and he absolutely deserved to lose. In the first game his decision making was non-existent and he didn't seem to understand the ZvP matchup AT ALL.
In the last game, he simply didn't scout properly and misjudged the incoming push (making drones instead of troops).
Combining this with his pre-game arrogance and in-game BM, it's hard to bear.
I usually respect Idra, but he seriously has to rethink his game and behavior.

You must be a low level player for saying such a thing, or you just did not see the same match as me.
IdrA scouted a lot in game 3, he sacked 2 overlord and had a drone in cruncher's base for a minute or so, plus 4 zerglings waiting for the protoss to make a move.



LOL you're calling Drazzzt a "low level" player and your proof is the way IdrA scouted game 3?

1. The first drone scout for that super massive "1 minute" is almost completely useless. Its purpose is to see if there is any proxying. Everyone knows that a protoss will get a Stalker/Sentry out to kill that drone before exposing any build.

2. The first sacked overlord saw 2 gates. There are many build you could "guess" he is going to do but nothing definitive.

3. The second sacked overlord saw the expo and 1 gate. So he knows there is an expo and 3 gates. Once again there are lots of builds you could "guess" from this but nothing definitive.

4. The lings are to detect the first push from the protoss. And here is where IdrA failed, and failed HARD!

He saw the push and builds a few Roaches but also builds 7 probes! You're gonna defend a Protoss push by wasting your larva on drones?


You should look in the mirror before you start putting people down. Or increase your own knowledge of the game first.

Seriously ?
1. The drone prevented Cruncher from going 4 gate, scouted chrono on warp gate, forced cruncher to make a quick stalker... Are you seriously trolling ? Having such a scout early game is a great plus at this level.
2. Yes
3. Yes, so what ? What do you want him to do more he just basically sacrificed two overlord just to scout, you want him to launch his entire overlord fleet to scout the 6 gates ?
4. No he did not failed, Cruncher first got out of his base, and IdrA retreated his ling. Then Cruncher just delayed his push, killed the lings near the second natural, thus leading IdrA into thinking cruncher would expand ? Then he delayed again, made a pylon, and goes for a FFspamming Win and smiley combo.

The only thing that IdrA sucked at is playing safe. His scouting was as good as it can get with slow overlord and wall in from protoss.



1. LOL the drone "prevented" him from going 4 gate. I'm not even going to bother saying anything about how bad you made yourself sound with that. And "scouting chrono on warpgate" hmmm i wonder why a protoss might chrono his warpgate? Maybe to get lots of wargates and rush. Kinda obvious isn't?

2+3. Yes he scouted but got very little info. I didn't say it was bad. I just said it was meaningless because any build could still be coming.

4. Yes he failed. Anyone who thinks he didn't fail is just a pure IdrA fan boy. You see chrono warpgates and ~10 sentries. Its 100% an attack to win/kill. 100%. No other option. You don't chrono warpgate and make ~10 sentries to get a 2nd expo.

Are you serious? Don't you understand that going a 4gate and being scouted when you build the 4gate is like giving a freewin to your opponent ? With the drone, he prevented cruncher from making those 3 more warpgate long enough. I'm pretty sure that's why cruncher expanded. His expo timing was weird, using two + chronoboost on warp gate tech is not standard with such a fast expand, that's more like giving a free "I'm rushing you", but that kind of "I'm rushing you" is not viable at a certain level because the zerg just have to put static defense and win.
2+3 = But that's how you play zerg. You got to sack those overlord at certain timing because you have no other tools to scout and you can basically loose to a various type of strategy (from stargate play to 6 gate or dt).
4. Cruncher had 6 sentries, that's not off chart number of sentries... That's what I almost see everygame with a 3gate expand. The give away is more the number of stalker. IdrA sucked at not making spine crawlers and still producing drone I agree. He betted wrong.



You seriously need to stop thinking IdrA's drone was magical and stopped a 4-gate because you are just making yourself look bad. All zergs drones stay in All protoss bases until after the cyber core and either a stalker/sentry come out. All protoss wait until this point to then make a 4-gate build.

IdrA's drone didn't stop a 4-gate. Cruncher chose a 2 base gate rush with lots of early sentries.

Also you always make lots of sentries early when rushing 2 base gate push timing. Why make Stalkers first and then sentries later? You always make the sentries first so they have LOTS of force fields.

IdrA knows this.
Jarlax
Profile Joined November 2010
76 Posts
March 28 2011 11:42 GMT
#8318
I find it rly funny TSL managed to invite so many top-pros to this tournament and nearly all of them got knocked in first round. LOL.

Now its pretty weak tournament with only exception to MC who is so rude&proud (aka full of himself) in his interviews i hardly wanna watch him at all. Sad state of the game.
legek
Profile Joined September 2010
Slovenia153 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 11:52:25
March 28 2011 11:47 GMT
#8319
nm
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
March 28 2011 11:53 GMT
#8320
On March 28 2011 20:40 Rielle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 20:34 WhiteDog wrote:
On March 28 2011 20:23 Rielle wrote:
On March 28 2011 20:14 WhiteDog wrote:
On March 28 2011 18:17 Rielle wrote:
On March 28 2011 17:13 WhiteDog wrote:
On March 28 2011 16:44 Drazzzt wrote:
After reading some of the discussion here on this thread and now watching the cruncher vs idra series I just have to say:
Idra's play was _atrocious_ and he absolutely deserved to lose. In the first game his decision making was non-existent and he didn't seem to understand the ZvP matchup AT ALL.
In the last game, he simply didn't scout properly and misjudged the incoming push (making drones instead of troops).
Combining this with his pre-game arrogance and in-game BM, it's hard to bear.
I usually respect Idra, but he seriously has to rethink his game and behavior.

You must be a low level player for saying such a thing, or you just did not see the same match as me.
IdrA scouted a lot in game 3, he sacked 2 overlord and had a drone in cruncher's base for a minute or so, plus 4 zerglings waiting for the protoss to make a move.



LOL you're calling Drazzzt a "low level" player and your proof is the way IdrA scouted game 3?

1. The first drone scout for that super massive "1 minute" is almost completely useless. Its purpose is to see if there is any proxying. Everyone knows that a protoss will get a Stalker/Sentry out to kill that drone before exposing any build.

2. The first sacked overlord saw 2 gates. There are many build you could "guess" he is going to do but nothing definitive.

3. The second sacked overlord saw the expo and 1 gate. So he knows there is an expo and 3 gates. Once again there are lots of builds you could "guess" from this but nothing definitive.

4. The lings are to detect the first push from the protoss. And here is where IdrA failed, and failed HARD!

He saw the push and builds a few Roaches but also builds 7 probes! You're gonna defend a Protoss push by wasting your larva on drones?


You should look in the mirror before you start putting people down. Or increase your own knowledge of the game first.

Seriously ?
1. The drone prevented Cruncher from going 4 gate, scouted chrono on warp gate, forced cruncher to make a quick stalker... Are you seriously trolling ? Having such a scout early game is a great plus at this level.
2. Yes
3. Yes, so what ? What do you want him to do more he just basically sacrificed two overlord just to scout, you want him to launch his entire overlord fleet to scout the 6 gates ?
4. No he did not failed, Cruncher first got out of his base, and IdrA retreated his ling. Then Cruncher just delayed his push, killed the lings near the second natural, thus leading IdrA into thinking cruncher would expand ? Then he delayed again, made a pylon, and goes for a FFspamming Win and smiley combo.

The only thing that IdrA sucked at is playing safe. His scouting was as good as it can get with slow overlord and wall in from protoss.



1. LOL the drone "prevented" him from going 4 gate. I'm not even going to bother saying anything about how bad you made yourself sound with that. And "scouting chrono on warpgate" hmmm i wonder why a protoss might chrono his warpgate? Maybe to get lots of wargates and rush. Kinda obvious isn't?

2+3. Yes he scouted but got very little info. I didn't say it was bad. I just said it was meaningless because any build could still be coming.

4. Yes he failed. Anyone who thinks he didn't fail is just a pure IdrA fan boy. You see chrono warpgates and ~10 sentries. Its 100% an attack to win/kill. 100%. No other option. You don't chrono warpgate and make ~10 sentries to get a 2nd expo.

Are you serious? Don't you understand that going a 4gate and being scouted when you build the 4gate is like giving a freewin to your opponent ? With the drone, he prevented cruncher from making those 3 more warpgate long enough. I'm pretty sure that's why cruncher expanded. His expo timing was weird, using two + chronoboost on warp gate tech is not standard with such a fast expand, that's more like giving a free "I'm rushing you", but that kind of "I'm rushing you" is not viable at a certain level because the zerg just have to put static defense and win.
2+3 = But that's how you play zerg. You got to sack those overlord at certain timing because you have no other tools to scout and you can basically loose to a various type of strategy (from stargate play to 6 gate or dt).
4. Cruncher had 6 sentries, that's not off chart number of sentries... That's what I almost see everygame with a 3gate expand. The give away is more the number of stalker. IdrA sucked at not making spine crawlers and still producing drone I agree. He betted wrong.



You seriously need to stop thinking IdrA's drone was magical and stopped a 4-gate because you are just making yourself look bad. All zergs drones stay in All protoss bases until after the cyber core and either a stalker/sentry come out. All protoss wait until this point to then make a 4-gate build.

IdrA's drone didn't stop a 4-gate. Cruncher chose a 2 base gate rush with lots of early sentries.

Also you always make lots of sentries early when rushing 2 base gate push timing. Why make Stalkers first and then sentries later? You always make the sentries first so they have LOTS of force fields.

IdrA knows this.

Damn... You do that, even if you go for a fast colossi play. The 6 or so sentries early are just so good that everybody makes them to stack up mana and give total map scouting.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Prev 1 414 415 416 417 418 422 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Online Event
00:00
The 5.4k Patch Clash #2
davetesta12
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 240
StarCraft: Brood War
ggaemo 1586
Pusan 1308
PianO 254
ToSsGirL 55
sorry 54
Noble 26
Sharp 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
Icarus 6
JulyZerg 4
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm113
League of Legends
JimRising 678
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K839
Other Games
summit1g7577
shahzam645
C9.Mang0508
SortOf100
Maynarde83
Trikslyr28
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1029
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH291
• practicex 37
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1769
• Lourlo1119
• Stunt338
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
4h 16m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
5h 16m
Zoun vs Bunny
herO vs Solar
Replay Cast
18h 16m
LiuLi Cup
1d 5h
BSL Team Wars
1d 13h
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
Korean StarCraft League
1d 21h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
Classic vs Percival
Spirit vs NightMare
CSO Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
[BSL 2025] Weekly
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
SC Evo League
3 days
BSL Team Wars
3 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Queen vs HyuN
EffOrt vs Calm
Wardi Open
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Rush vs TBD
Jaedong vs Mong
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
herO vs TBD
Royal vs Barracks
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Jiahua Invitational
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSLAN 3
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.