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[TSL] Ro32 Day 4 - Page 414

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Balance whining will result in a ban
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
March 28 2011 06:57 GMT
#8261
Still surprised with how many of these games went today, incredibly excited to see the rest of this amazing tournament.
blAke139
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Switzerland199 Posts
March 28 2011 07:02 GMT
#8262
On March 28 2011 15:55 WhiteDog wrote:
Most of you just don't understand what happened. Cruncher goes forge expand twice, all the time just trying to go for 200/200 "timing" attack...

And in the 3rd game, the first game where he was not going for a forge first, Day[9] said what every other mid level viewer was thinking : Cruncher is not going forge first... he might be 4gating. He was certainly trying to 4gate, keeping all his chrono for his cyber, but accidently let a drone scout the shit, so what do you do when you fail 4gate.... 6 gate
I'm amused how you can call that "tactics".


It isn't tactics either if you just can't counter any sort of timing pushes and the only thing you really have a command of is long macro games. Cruncher made the right decisions and won. IdrA was BM and played not as good as he could. Maybe he shouldn't talk bs before the games and "prepare for it like it was a walkover". Arrogance doesn't pay off at last.
Check out my original SC2 Songs: http://www.youtube.com/user/blAkeMusic4Life
bennyaus
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1833 Posts
March 28 2011 07:04 GMT
#8263
On March 28 2011 15:55 WhiteDog wrote:
Most of you just don't understand what happened. Cruncher goes forge expand twice, all the time just trying to go for 200/200 "timing" attack...

And in the 3rd game, the first game where he was not going for a forge first, Day[9] said what every other mid level viewer was thinking : Cruncher is not going forge first... he might be 4gating. He was certainly trying to 4gate, keeping all his chrono for his cyber, but accidently let a drone scout the shit, so what do you do when you fail 4gate.... 6 gate
I'm amused how you can call that "tactics".


The irony of course is that IdrA is so bad (and arrogant) at ZvP that he isn't able to react in game 3. The second I saw a round of drones go off, when he didn't even know whether it was a 4gate or not, I loled to myself knowing the game was over. If he had all those units when the push started, rather than coming out during the push, he would've crushed it, but he got greedy as per usual.
I play Random - HuK, DRG + Liquid fan
imbs
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom320 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 07:04:34
March 28 2011 07:04 GMT
#8264
On March 28 2011 15:14 mastergriggy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 09:06 Leviance wrote:
Wikileaks found the secret copy&paste site of IdrA fans:

IdrA loses a short ZvT: stupid Terran all-ins nothing one can do about that
IdrA loses a long ZvT: God Zerg late game is a joke, bioball so OP, mech so OP, biomech so OP
IdrA loses a short ZvP: retarded Protoss all-ins nothing one can do about that
IdrA loses a long ZvP: fucking imba Toss army, nothing one can do about that
or brand new: fucking Toss with their 3-base 200/200 all-ins, can't play a macro game
IdrA loses a ZvZ series: god, ZvZ is so luck-based

IdrA wins any of these: Wow IdrA is such a God, amazing play

He never ever ever makes mistakes. IdrA never loses, his opponents just abuse the game. Being a good StarCraft II player means: Max out the fastest. Everything else has to be fixed by Blizzard.
If IdrA fanboys were to balance the game Zerg 200/200 would be as strong as Protoss 200/200 but cost the same as now, and so on and so on...


This is pretty much the reason I don't like Idra. He claims imbalance while other Zergs overcome.

erm i don't know about you but every zerg who speaks out about balance complain, including gsl finalist july among others. difference between idra and other pro zergs is that idra is more vocal, and you cannot blame him for being frustrated. game 2 demonstrated the gap between the 2 players imo.
imbs
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom320 Posts
March 28 2011 07:08 GMT
#8265
On March 28 2011 16:04 bennyaus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 15:55 WhiteDog wrote:
Most of you just don't understand what happened. Cruncher goes forge expand twice, all the time just trying to go for 200/200 "timing" attack...

And in the 3rd game, the first game where he was not going for a forge first, Day[9] said what every other mid level viewer was thinking : Cruncher is not going forge first... he might be 4gating. He was certainly trying to 4gate, keeping all his chrono for his cyber, but accidently let a drone scout the shit, so what do you do when you fail 4gate.... 6 gate
I'm amused how you can call that "tactics".


The irony of course is that IdrA is so bad (and arrogant) at ZvP that he isn't able to react in game 3. The second I saw a round of drones go off, when he didn't even know whether it was a 4gate or not, I loled to myself knowing the game was over. If he had all those units when the push started, rather than coming out during the push, he would've crushed it, but he got greedy as per usual.

whilst u were loling to yourself you were failing to understand what was going on. all idra saw was the standard pressure sentry heavy play, and it was a 6 gate.. if idra doesnt respond correctly there he is behind, for example if it was just pressure and idra responds as if its a 6 gates hes miles behind and can only really go attack and it wont work because mass sentry are pgood defensively. fact is with your 20/20 hindsight and sight of the whole map its easy to sit back and say x should do y. i bet you sit there whilst people get proxied laughing at how they didnt scout that one place.
blAke139
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Switzerland199 Posts
March 28 2011 07:08 GMT
#8266
On March 28 2011 16:04 imbs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 15:14 mastergriggy wrote:
On March 28 2011 09:06 Leviance wrote:
Wikileaks found the secret copy&paste site of IdrA fans:

IdrA loses a short ZvT: stupid Terran all-ins nothing one can do about that
IdrA loses a long ZvT: God Zerg late game is a joke, bioball so OP, mech so OP, biomech so OP
IdrA loses a short ZvP: retarded Protoss all-ins nothing one can do about that
IdrA loses a long ZvP: fucking imba Toss army, nothing one can do about that
or brand new: fucking Toss with their 3-base 200/200 all-ins, can't play a macro game
IdrA loses a ZvZ series: god, ZvZ is so luck-based

IdrA wins any of these: Wow IdrA is such a God, amazing play

He never ever ever makes mistakes. IdrA never loses, his opponents just abuse the game. Being a good StarCraft II player means: Max out the fastest. Everything else has to be fixed by Blizzard.
If IdrA fanboys were to balance the game Zerg 200/200 would be as strong as Protoss 200/200 but cost the same as now, and so on and so on...


This is pretty much the reason I don't like Idra. He claims imbalance while other Zergs overcome.

erm i don't know about you but every zerg who speaks out about balance complain, including gsl finalist july among others. difference between idra and other pro zergs is that idra is more vocal, and you cannot blame him for being frustrated. game 2 demonstrated the gap between the 2 players imo.


Getting steamrolled by MC makes a lot of people complain. But remember: MC also showed us in the game vs. Ciara (he crushed him with 3 gates only, because he saw the opportunity) that he has superior unit control and doesn't even need a 4gate to crush a zerg. But that's not IMBANESS, that's just greater skill. I'm still hoping for a corruptor buff btw. but still I don't think IdrA would have deserved a win there. He just played wrong, period.
Check out my original SC2 Songs: http://www.youtube.com/user/blAkeMusic4Life
imbs
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom320 Posts
March 28 2011 07:10 GMT
#8267
On March 28 2011 16:08 blAke139 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 16:04 imbs wrote:
On March 28 2011 15:14 mastergriggy wrote:
On March 28 2011 09:06 Leviance wrote:
Wikileaks found the secret copy&paste site of IdrA fans:

IdrA loses a short ZvT: stupid Terran all-ins nothing one can do about that
IdrA loses a long ZvT: God Zerg late game is a joke, bioball so OP, mech so OP, biomech so OP
IdrA loses a short ZvP: retarded Protoss all-ins nothing one can do about that
IdrA loses a long ZvP: fucking imba Toss army, nothing one can do about that
or brand new: fucking Toss with their 3-base 200/200 all-ins, can't play a macro game
IdrA loses a ZvZ series: god, ZvZ is so luck-based

IdrA wins any of these: Wow IdrA is such a God, amazing play

He never ever ever makes mistakes. IdrA never loses, his opponents just abuse the game. Being a good StarCraft II player means: Max out the fastest. Everything else has to be fixed by Blizzard.
If IdrA fanboys were to balance the game Zerg 200/200 would be as strong as Protoss 200/200 but cost the same as now, and so on and so on...


This is pretty much the reason I don't like Idra. He claims imbalance while other Zergs overcome.

erm i don't know about you but every zerg who speaks out about balance complain, including gsl finalist july among others. difference between idra and other pro zergs is that idra is more vocal, and you cannot blame him for being frustrated. game 2 demonstrated the gap between the 2 players imo.


Getting steamrolled by MC makes a lot of people complain. But remember: MC also showed us in the game vs. Ciara (he crushed him with 3 gates only, because he saw the opportunity) that he has superior unit control and doesn't even need a 4gate to crush a zerg. But that's not IMBANESS, that's just greater skill. I'm still hoping for a corruptor buff btw. but still I don't think IdrA would have deserved a win there. He just played wrong, period.

he complained in the pre-match interview, actually. and ciara is way worse than mc ofc he didnt win, even with the apparent lag. i didnt mention imbalance either im just saying pmuch all zergs complain.
Scrandom
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada2819 Posts
March 28 2011 07:16 GMT
#8268
I just watched the IdrA/cruncher and nada/tlo series. Are either of the other two series worth watching or any games in the series worth watching?
Qaatar
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
March 28 2011 07:21 GMT
#8269
I don't really have any favorites left other than a couple of the legendary guys in this tournament, and quite honestly, these RO32's are disappointing in regards to the level of play. Only Sen and Tyler to a lesser extent impressed me - former top finishers of this tournament who no doubt prepared WELL. I don't know what it is about SC2 when it comes to individual league play in large touraments - people play like shit for some reason - and the strategies used are always fucking abusive, calculated, or in the case of a few Koreans: half-assed and retarded. Most of the GSL matches, IEM, and now this...only the GSTL has highly skilled games imo. The same thing happened in BW, but to a much lesser extent, since the metagame was much more stable and strategies much more transparent. Thank goodness for the Korean vs. the world teamleague showmatch coming up. Anyways, enough whine. :D

Grats to all who won this weekend.
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
March 28 2011 07:21 GMT
#8270
On March 28 2011 16:16 Scrandom wrote:
I just watched the IdrA/cruncher and nada/tlo series. Are either of the other two series worth watching or any games in the series worth watching?

Yeah Kas vs Haypro is pretty good, mondragon and zeerax dunno, I could not watch that serie.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
ggggbabybabybaby
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada304 Posts
March 28 2011 07:22 GMT
#8271
On March 28 2011 16:16 Scrandom wrote:
I just watched the IdrA/cruncher and nada/tlo series. Are either of the other two series worth watching or any games in the series worth watching?


Haypro/Kas was a pretty solid set of games. Just standard play. Nothing too exciting but no silly cheesiness.

Mondragon/Zeerax was wacky. Worth watching if you like units countering their hard counters.
blAke139
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Switzerland199 Posts
March 28 2011 07:23 GMT
#8272
On March 28 2011 16:21 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 16:16 Scrandom wrote:
I just watched the IdrA/cruncher and nada/tlo series. Are either of the other two series worth watching or any games in the series worth watching?

Yeah Kas vs Haypro is pretty good, mondragon and zeerax dunno, I could not watch that serie.


I thought Mondragon vs. Zeerax was one of the best series yesterday.

+ Show Spoiler +
SPOILER: Not because they were quite even, but because Mondragon showed some outstanding swarm play. Loved that play.
Check out my original SC2 Songs: http://www.youtube.com/user/blAkeMusic4Life
Ketch
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands7285 Posts
March 28 2011 07:24 GMT
#8273
On March 28 2011 16:16 Scrandom wrote:
I just watched the IdrA/cruncher and nada/tlo series. Are either of the other two series worth watching or any games in the series worth watching?


Definitely check out Mondragon vs Zeerax!
being
Profile Joined September 2010
Niger16 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 07:26:43
March 28 2011 07:25 GMT
#8274
On March 28 2011 15:32 zoN- wrote:
Idra made 7 drones when Cruncher moved out, was just gg right there :/.

Yeah. That was really weird. He even scouted, that Cruncher moves out and then makes drones. I was like 'wtf???' and then he loses ofc. Would like to know the reasoning of that decision.
Probably something along the lines "Man, he's so bad, I can just power drones, even when he's pushing me"? :D
Deleted User 109835
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
629 Posts
March 28 2011 07:27 GMT
#8275
--- Nuked ---
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
March 28 2011 07:27 GMT
#8276
On March 28 2011 16:25 being wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 15:32 zoN- wrote:
Idra made 7 drones when Cruncher moved out, was just gg right there :/.

Yeah. That was really weird. He even scouted, that Cruncher moves out and then makes drones. I was like 'wtf???' and then he loses ofc. Would like to know the reasoning of that decision.


sometimes we are not always perfect. He most likely thought he had enough units to take on the push and wanted to squeak in more drones for an advantage. Or he felt like he had enough time to drone up. Or he may have misjudged Cruncher's resolve to attack.
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
March 28 2011 07:28 GMT
#8277
They are all worth watching but what's funny is the other sets you missed are most worth it cuz they show new things.
MC for president
Minimi][
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany43 Posts
March 28 2011 07:35 GMT
#8278
On March 28 2011 16:02 blAke139 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 15:55 WhiteDog wrote:
Most of you just don't understand what happened. Cruncher goes forge expand twice, all the time just trying to go for 200/200 "timing" attack...

And in the 3rd game, the first game where he was not going for a forge first, Day[9] said what every other mid level viewer was thinking : Cruncher is not going forge first... he might be 4gating. He was certainly trying to 4gate, keeping all his chrono for his cyber, but accidently let a drone scout the shit, so what do you do when you fail 4gate.... 6 gate
I'm amused how you can call that "tactics".


It isn't tactics either if you just can't counter any sort of timing pushes and the only thing you really have a command of is long macro games. Cruncher made the right decisions and won. IdrA was BM and played not as good as he could. Maybe he shouldn't talk bs before the games and "prepare for it like it was a walkover". Arrogance doesn't pay off at last.



Idra tried what he could to scout Crunchers base, but he couldn't see the additional warpgates. Then he had to make a coin flip, and he lost.
orangepie
Profile Joined March 2011
United States24 Posts
March 28 2011 07:36 GMT
#8279
If we apply what we learned from Mondragon's games, we would clearly see that Idra should have countered the colossi, voidray build with mass roach and overlords and nothing else hahahaha.

as for all the balance talk.. well, I think it should stop! so annoying to read. there are so many factors in the game that you can't possibly get anywhere arguing one side or the other. I mean who's to say that TLO's mineral line micro at the beginning wasn't the reason he got the edge?! You can argue pretty much anything. Most people are basing balance issues off a few games in this tournament... ridiculous!?
Qaatar
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
March 28 2011 07:41 GMT
#8280
On March 28 2011 16:35 Minimi][ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 16:02 blAke139 wrote:
On March 28 2011 15:55 WhiteDog wrote:
Most of you just don't understand what happened. Cruncher goes forge expand twice, all the time just trying to go for 200/200 "timing" attack...

And in the 3rd game, the first game where he was not going for a forge first, Day[9] said what every other mid level viewer was thinking : Cruncher is not going forge first... he might be 4gating. He was certainly trying to 4gate, keeping all his chrono for his cyber, but accidently let a drone scout the shit, so what do you do when you fail 4gate.... 6 gate
I'm amused how you can call that "tactics".


It isn't tactics either if you just can't counter any sort of timing pushes and the only thing you really have a command of is long macro games. Cruncher made the right decisions and won. IdrA was BM and played not as good as he could. Maybe he shouldn't talk bs before the games and "prepare for it like it was a walkover". Arrogance doesn't pay off at last.



Idra tried what he could to scout Crunchers base, but he couldn't see the additional warpgates. Then he had to make a coin flip, and he lost.


Then you assume for the worst - IdrA's arrogance affected his decision making, and he lost. If he didn't try to cut corners and played as safe as possible, his superior mechanics in the late game would have won him the game. Not making excuses for him though - Cruncher played well.
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