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On March 27 2011 11:39 Angra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 11:31 s4life wrote:On March 27 2011 11:15 Poopi wrote:
&Hierarch : if you have ever played some online game with lags, you would know that there is no such thing as : yeaaah uuuh I lag so I just have to adapt and it'll be fine. Lags ruins all. I wouldn't even play while lagging (i habe experimented that in sc2 sometimes) cuz it's not even funny how that's not playable at all. But there is money so korean play, that's how it works. And I don't say Jinro is lying, I just say that since Jinro is Liquid he won't discredit this tournament, he says that there are lag issues but that koreans may not have adapted to it. Thing is that you can't adapt. . So Jinro is not a liar per se, he's just lying because he has invested interests in TL uh? How comfortable 't was for all the fanboys when Koreans were winning -- the world is as it should be I guess --- but now that they started losing a few here and there, lag is used as an scapegoat for every lost game, since ALL Koreans after all, are invincible. How do you explain the lag effect then in Supernova's run in the FXOpen; he's not just winning, he's tearing up apart the competition .. it's not even close. Not everyone is playing on the same computer and internet connection? I have a European friend who gets about 8ms on US servers for various games, but I get about 400ms on EU servers for various games. Just because 1 Korean doesn't have as much lag as all the others doesn't mean that they all don't.
Unless you have a sh!tty connection or a non-gaming or old computer -- both highly unlikely events for progamers or gaming houses - game latency for the most part is due to cross-server connection lag... oh and I never claimed all koreans don't have lag issues, they do.. but as Jinro said, some came prepared for it -- like supernova -- and others just didn't.
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On March 27 2011 11:39 Angra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 11:17 s4life wrote:
I asked oGsSupernova about the lag and he told he has absolutely no problems with it.. how come? Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 11:31 s4life wrote:
So Jinro is not a liar per se, he's just lying because he has invested interests in TL uh?
How comfortable 't was for all the fanboys when Koreans were winning -- the world is as it should be I guess --- but now that they started losing a few here and there, lag is used as an scapegoat for every lost game, since ALL Koreans after all, are invincible. How do you explain the lag effect then in Supernova's run in the FXOpen; he's not just winning, he's tearing up apart the competition .. it's not even close. Not everyone is playing on the same computer and internet connection? I have a European friend who gets about 8ms on US servers for various games, but I get about 400ms on EU servers for various games. Just because 1 Korean doesn't have as much lag as all the others doesn't mean that they all don't.
8ms on US from europe is impossible though, just FYI. If you had a private line from west europe to east US it still takes 20ms (300 000/ 6000km = 0,02seconds)
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Now can we please stop with the "koreans are better than foreigners"? Or is it too soon for that?
Dunno what the latency was for those games for koreans but there is no way i would consider something like 200+ms as a fair game in something fast-paced like starcraft.
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On March 27 2011 11:45 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 11:28 Mios wrote:
As good as TSL is, no LAN is holding it back. We you expecting us to run ethernet cable from korea to germany ^^ ?
Damn right, how come you don't do something like that?! Geez you're such a cheap community!
lol j/k, TSL is excelent as it is atm.
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On March 27 2011 11:55 frodoguy wrote:
Now can we please stop with the "koreans are better than foreigners"? Or is it too soon for that?
We are still in the 'anger' stage... so not yet
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On March 27 2011 11:55 tnud wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 11:39 Angra wrote:On March 27 2011 11:17 s4life wrote:
I asked oGsSupernova about the lag and he told he has absolutely no problems with it.. how come? On March 27 2011 11:31 s4life wrote:
So Jinro is not a liar per se, he's just lying because he has invested interests in TL uh?
How comfortable 't was for all the fanboys when Koreans were winning -- the world is as it should be I guess --- but now that they started losing a few here and there, lag is used as an scapegoat for every lost game, since ALL Koreans after all, are invincible. How do you explain the lag effect then in Supernova's run in the FXOpen; he's not just winning, he's tearing up apart the competition .. it's not even close. Not everyone is playing on the same computer and internet connection? I have a European friend who gets about 8ms on US servers for various games, but I get about 400ms on EU servers for various games. Just because 1 Korean doesn't have as much lag as all the others doesn't mean that they all don't. 8ms on US from europe is impossible though, just FYI. If you had a private line from west europe to east US it still takes 20ms (300 000/ 6000km = 0,02seconds)
That was actually a typo, my bad.  I fixed it now. Either way, their ping is very low.
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I don't get it...why does everyone keep typing "fighting". Koreans only write that because the slang term "GO TEAM GO." or "GO FIGHT GO" doesn't exist. So really, they're incorrect by saying "FIGHTING". but then again, they're korean, and don't speak english natively. So what's everyone else's excuse?
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On March 27 2011 11:55 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 11:39 Angra wrote:On March 27 2011 11:31 s4life wrote:On March 27 2011 11:15 Poopi wrote:
&Hierarch : if you have ever played some online game with lags, you would know that there is no such thing as : yeaaah uuuh I lag so I just have to adapt and it'll be fine. Lags ruins all. I wouldn't even play while lagging (i habe experimented that in sc2 sometimes) cuz it's not even funny how that's not playable at all. But there is money so korean play, that's how it works. And I don't say Jinro is lying, I just say that since Jinro is Liquid he won't discredit this tournament, he says that there are lag issues but that koreans may not have adapted to it. Thing is that you can't adapt. . So Jinro is not a liar per se, he's just lying because he has invested interests in TL uh? How comfortable 't was for all the fanboys when Koreans were winning -- the world is as it should be I guess --- but now that they started losing a few here and there, lag is used as an scapegoat for every lost game, since ALL Koreans after all, are invincible. How do you explain the lag effect then in Supernova's run in the FXOpen; he's not just winning, he's tearing up apart the competition .. it's not even close. Not everyone is playing on the same computer and internet connection? I have a European friend who gets about 8ms on US servers for various games, but I get about 400ms on EU servers for various games. Just because 1 Korean doesn't have as much lag as all the others doesn't mean that they all don't. Unless you have a sh!tty connection or a non-gaming or old computer -- both highly unlikely events for progamers or gaming houses - game latency for the most part is due to cross-server connection lag... oh and I never claimed all koreans don't have lag issues, they do.. but as Jinro said, some came prepared for it -- like supernova -- and others just didn't.
How are you supposed to "come prepared" for lag? There's many things in SC2 that absolutely require you to micro efficiently, and if you don't, or, "come prepared", you're at a severe disadvantage to begin with.
To be fair, I think MVP played absolutely awful though. But it still would have been a more interesting and maybe closer game if they both had better ping.
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Are any of the games worth watching? I got sick of waiting for the vods and just looked at the results
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On March 27 2011 11:59 Scrandom wrote:
Are any of the games worth watching? I got sick of waiting for the vods and just looked at the results
QXC vs Genius game 2 is pretty amazing
though all of the Korean v EU games have noticeable areas where there's lag  so it takes a bit away from it, but not much
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On March 27 2011 11:28 Mios wrote:
None of this would be an issue if Blizzard put LAN mode into SC2, which would allow for this thing called a Neutral Host via virtual LAN. In Wc3 we had Garena, in BW we had iCCup. I really fucking hate Bliz when I read about shit like this. They really didn't think international online tournaments would create problems with their segregated infrastructure?
As good as TSL is, no LAN is holding it back.
This is right on.
Something needs to be done, and most certainly Blizzard is holding people back from fixing it because they want to protect themselves from piracy. (which is not a small issue for ATVI)
Blizzard needs to address this so we can have a TRUE SC2 CHAMPIONSHIP.... and trust the play field is level in regards to hacking and latency!
Right now the play field is at best inconsistent for international online play.... and its enough to make results like today seem questionable.
I love TL... but I can't reconcile the discrepancy between LAN and online results. Its not TL's fault... its Blizzards fault... TL is just protecting its tourney (and rightfully so)
Blizzard is the only entity that can fix this.... either by implementing a solution themselves, or empowering the community to create a fix.
But right now, Blizzards IP department is actively making sure that the issue is NOT fixed.... and the TSL (being a trailblazer) is one of the first to suffer from Blizzards holes.
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i wanna suck ur cock so hard right now
User was warned for this post
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I dont get it why lag is different for Koreans...
I mean when I play and my opponent is lagging I also lag and get freezes too. So if a Korean lag then the European opponent wont get it smoothly as well
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On March 27 2011 11:55 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 11:39 Angra wrote:On March 27 2011 11:31 s4life wrote:On March 27 2011 11:15 Poopi wrote:
&Hierarch : if you have ever played some online game with lags, you would know that there is no such thing as : yeaaah uuuh I lag so I just have to adapt and it'll be fine. Lags ruins all. I wouldn't even play while lagging (i habe experimented that in sc2 sometimes) cuz it's not even funny how that's not playable at all. But there is money so korean play, that's how it works. And I don't say Jinro is lying, I just say that since Jinro is Liquid he won't discredit this tournament, he says that there are lag issues but that koreans may not have adapted to it. Thing is that you can't adapt. . So Jinro is not a liar per se, he's just lying because he has invested interests in TL uh? How comfortable 't was for all the fanboys when Koreans were winning -- the world is as it should be I guess --- but now that they started losing a few here and there, lag is used as an scapegoat for every lost game, since ALL Koreans after all, are invincible. How do you explain the lag effect then in Supernova's run in the FXOpen; he's not just winning, he's tearing up apart the competition .. it's not even close. Not everyone is playing on the same computer and internet connection? I have a European friend who gets about 8ms on US servers for various games, but I get about 400ms on EU servers for various games. Just because 1 Korean doesn't have as much lag as all the others doesn't mean that they all don't. Unless you have a sh!tty connection or a non-gaming or old computer -- both highly unlikely events for progamers or gaming houses - game latency for the most part is due to cross-server connection lag... oh and I never claimed all koreans don't have lag issues, they do.. but as Jinro said, some came prepared for it -- like supernova -- and others just didn't.
TSL is form replays, lag could be bad couple of days ago (earthquake), but maybe now its not so bad.
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Cheers 
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On March 27 2011 11:45 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 11:28 Mios wrote:
As good as TSL is, no LAN is holding it back. We you expecting us to run ethernet cable from korea to germany ^^ ?
If SC2 had LAN, you could use a p2p client to set up the games instead of battle.net. It wouldn't eliminate the delay, but it would minimize it and keep it more consistent. But it doesn't, so whatever, pipe dream.
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On March 27 2011 11:57 SeokHY wrote:
I don't get it...why does everyone keep typing "fighting". Koreans only write that because the slang term "GO TEAM GO." or "GO FIGHT GO" doesn't exist. So really, they're incorrect by saying "FIGHTING". but then again, they're korean, and don't speak english natively. So what's everyone else's excuse?
I think it's an homage to the country that popularized starcraft as a sport -- just like chess players use German and French terminology, cricketers shout "howzat", musicians shout "Brava!", and so on.
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On March 27 2011 11:59 Angra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 11:55 s4life wrote:On March 27 2011 11:39 Angra wrote:On March 27 2011 11:31 s4life wrote:On March 27 2011 11:15 Poopi wrote:
&Hierarch : if you have ever played some online game with lags, you would know that there is no such thing as : yeaaah uuuh I lag so I just have to adapt and it'll be fine. Lags ruins all. I wouldn't even play while lagging (i habe experimented that in sc2 sometimes) cuz it's not even funny how that's not playable at all. But there is money so korean play, that's how it works. And I don't say Jinro is lying, I just say that since Jinro is Liquid he won't discredit this tournament, he says that there are lag issues but that koreans may not have adapted to it. Thing is that you can't adapt. . So Jinro is not a liar per se, he's just lying because he has invested interests in TL uh? How comfortable 't was for all the fanboys when Koreans were winning -- the world is as it should be I guess --- but now that they started losing a few here and there, lag is used as an scapegoat for every lost game, since ALL Koreans after all, are invincible. How do you explain the lag effect then in Supernova's run in the FXOpen; he's not just winning, he's tearing up apart the competition .. it's not even close. Not everyone is playing on the same computer and internet connection? I have a European friend who gets about 8ms on US servers for various games, but I get about 400ms on EU servers for various games. Just because 1 Korean doesn't have as much lag as all the others doesn't mean that they all don't. Unless you have a sh!tty connection or a non-gaming or old computer -- both highly unlikely events for progamers or gaming houses - game latency for the most part is due to cross-server connection lag... oh and I never claimed all koreans don't have lag issues, they do.. but as Jinro said, some came prepared for it -- like supernova -- and others just didn't. How are you supposed to "come prepared" for lag? There's many things in SC2 that absolutely require you to micro efficiently, and if you don't, or, "come prepared", you're at a severe disadvantage to begin with. To be fair, I think MVP played absolutely awful though. But it still would have been a more interesting and maybe closer game if they both had better ping.
Shouldn't you go read Jinro's post or ask him? he's the programer with experiencie playing from Korean servers in US after all, something neither you -- I presume -- nor I know or have the slightest idea about.
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On March 27 2011 12:03 Miefer wrote:
I dont get it why lag is different for Koreans...
I mean when I play and my opponent is lagging I also lag and get freezes too. So if a Korean lag then the European opponent wont get it smoothly as well
Its not lag, its latency. Meaning, they issue the command, it instead of the unit doing it instantly... it takes .2 sec to start its action.
Player A might have a persistent latency of .3 to the NA server, and player B might have a persistent latency of .1 to the NA server. If the connection breaks... there would be "lag" or a pause... but there can be persistent latency that makes micro variable for the players.
So.. if a unit is dying and normally, you would move it away..... if you have .3 latency.. the unit might die because its not moved out of range in time.
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EPT
