EPTNASL application VODS - Page 62
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
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ThE_OsToJiY
Canada1167 Posts
On March 15 2011 12:11 ptbl wrote: Ok, I guess you do have a point  . Still, I think it's great that the ST team spoke in English instead of having a translator do it for them. They obviously put a lot of thought and effort into it.LOL watch julyzergs and post that with a serious face :| And yea I have learned to idolize koreans, but tbh its so much more entertaining to play with people you know and that you can talk to and I find it is much more interesting to watch (although could be biased, if you don't know players personally it might not matter if they are from Korea and can't speak english.) | ||
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
If your argument is that we need to improve before including Koreans, I would say what better motivation to fast track improvement than direct 1v1 competition from Koreans, which IMO would push NA players to work harder and improve faster. | ||
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CatalysT.
59 Posts
On March 15 2011 12:13 Pokebunny wrote: meh, I agree with NeverExpo/Ostojiy.. Sure it's fun to watch them play, but in reality they'll stomp 90% of their opponents without saying a single word other than "glhf" and not really provide anything that the NASL is really looking for. Sure they're high quality gamers, but they've got a good scene in Korea. We have to stop elevating Koreans so high above us - I think it will be more successful in the long run to try and bring the NA scene up to Korean level before having them compete. I for one would HATE to see a bunch of Koreans in the final 8/4... not nearly as interesting imo. I dont think that the scene outside of korea can grow at all if they dont have a reason to go balls deep in starcraft to win. You saw in like half the interviews that most of the applicants are college students that play starcraft in there free time. It seems to be working for them now but what is there motivation to further there skill more radically if things are working out for them right now. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On March 15 2011 12:16 CatalysT. wrote: I dont think that the scene outside of korea can grow at all if they dont have a reason to go balls deep in starcraft to win. You saw in like half the interviews that most of the applicants are college students that play starcraft in there free time. It seems to be working for them now but what is there motivation to further there skill more radically if things are working out for them right now. In NASL, they compete with many NA players who do play full time. They would motivate eachother and imo provide a more interesting product then watching some korean roflstomp one of the lower half players in the NASL skillwise.. With this much money involved, I think many players may reorganize their priorities and provide great competition. If Koreans come and dominate, they may just give up hope eventually... | ||
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Qaatar
1409 Posts
Of course, this is all speculation, and the other unintended effect (foreign esports scene dies as a result of this) could happen as well. But, any logical person would see that the first scenario here makes more sense. | ||
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
If Koreans come and dominate, they may just give up hope eventually... Good, if a player is going to give up because of stiff competition he was never a true competitor in the first place. | ||
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vdale
Germany1173 Posts
On March 15 2011 12:13 Pokebunny wrote: meh, I agree with NeverExpo/Ostojiy.. Sure it's fun to watch them play, but in reality they'll stomp 90% of their opponents without saying a single word other than "glhf" and not really provide anything that the NASL is really looking for. Sure they're high quality gamers, but they've got a good scene in Korea. We have to stop elevating Koreans so high above us - I think it will be more successful in the long run to try and bring the NA scene up to Korean level before having them compete. I for one would HATE to see a bunch of Koreans in the final 8/4... not nearly as interesting imo. I agree. Another thing which I don't like about inviting Koreans is the latency. I don't want to think too much about latency when watching the games, but from Korea to US it might play a bigger role and that isn't very good for a league like that. NASL should in my opinion be the GSL of the foreigners because most players can't simply move to Korea and compete in the GSL. | ||
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00Visor
4337 Posts
If you let both scenes grow seperatly, the west will NEVER catch up. Look at Broodwar, look at professional sport in general. You have to compete with the best to become one of the best. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
I honestly don't care if the west doesn't catch up, as long as we have an interesting scene. | ||
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CatalysT.
59 Posts
On March 15 2011 12:19 Pokebunny wrote: In NASL, they compete with many NA players who do play full time. They would motivate eachother and imo provide a more interesting product then watching some korean roflstomp one of the lower half players in the NASL skillwise.. With this much money involved, I think many players may reorganize their priorities and provide great competition. If Koreans come and dominate, they may just give up hope eventually... again why would someone need to dedicate themselves fully to starcraft if the competition isnt at the highest possible point? I don't think fill the tournament should fill itself with koreans but I think korea having a presence would be fantastic and would most definitely motivate all the players in the league who actually want to win. | ||
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adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
On March 15 2011 12:13 Pokebunny wrote: meh, I agree with NeverExpo/Ostojiy.. Sure it's fun to watch them play, but in reality they'll stomp 90% of their opponents without saying a single word other than "glhf" and not really provide anything that the NASL is really looking for. Sure they're high quality gamers, but they've got a good scene in Korea. We have to stop elevating Koreans so high above us - I think it will be more successful in the long run to try and bring the NA scene up to Korean level before having them compete. I for one would HATE to see a bunch of Koreans in the final 8/4... not nearly as interesting imo. So you're saying that we should have a separate league for white foreigners because they can't handle competition? Would you let players like CellaWerra compete? Do you realize that you're making an argument that's historically viewed as quite racist? | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On March 15 2011 12:23 adrenaLinG wrote: So you're saying that we should have a separate league for white foreigners because they can't handle competition? Would you let players like CellaWerra compete? Do you realize that you're making an argument that's historically viewed as quite racist? What? So if you have a Japanese baseball league without inviting Americans, it's racist? It's established that the American baseball players are simply more powerful in hitting and pitching, and if the top tier baseball players went to Japan, the games wouldn't be that interesting for either of them. | ||
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
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ptbl
United States6074 Posts
On March 15 2011 12:13 Pokebunny wrote: meh, I agree with NeverExpo/Ostojiy.. Sure it's fun to watch them play, but in reality they'll stomp 90% of their opponents without saying a single word other than "glhf" and not really provide anything that the NASL is really looking for. Sure they're high quality gamers, but they've got a good scene in Korea. We have to stop elevating Koreans so high above us - I think it will be more successful in the long run to try and bring the NA scene up to Korean level before having them compete. I for one would HATE to see a bunch of Koreans in the final 8/4... not nearly as interesting imo. I want to see the best players in a tournament, which obviously means inviting Koreans. Why do you think TSL3 is so anticipated? People want to see the best players, especially Koreans compete against the foreigners. People want to see a Jinro, a MC, a MVP, a Huk, a Idra in the tournament. Just because these people are training/trained in Korea shouldn't be a reason to exclude them. | ||
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Cedstick
Canada3336 Posts
On March 15 2011 12:23 adrenaLinG wrote: So you're saying that we should have a separate league for white foreigners because they can't handle competition? Would you let players like CellaWerra compete? Do you realize that you're making an argument that's historically viewed as quite racist? No, you're making that argument right now. He's got a point. I see no problem with letting in a few Koreans, so that if they do dominate, it won't just be pure Koreans in the Ro8 or Semi-Finals. But accepting five players from every Korean pro team that applies? Pokebunny was quite clear: we're growing North American e-Sports. North American. | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On March 15 2011 12:25 nvs. wrote: And as an observer I am much more interested in Liquid'Tyler vs. July than I am by Liquid'Tyler vs. B level NA player. Only the very best foreigners would come close to beating Koreans. The majority of their games would be fairly one sided, if it were to be the top Koreans. ed: On March 15 2011 12:26 SupastaR wrote: what about machine? kas? white ra? ciara? adelscott? Dimaga? Sen? Exactly! These players would likely get smashed by Koreans 99% of the time. I'd rather see up and coming foreigners try to prove themselves against players like these than Koreans smashing half their opponents and having maybe semi-close games against the other half. | ||
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Kurr
Canada2338 Posts
On March 15 2011 12:22 Pokebunny wrote: Shrug. all I know is I'm much less interested than watching Koreans vs mid tier foreigners than up and coming foreigners battling with the better foreigners. I honestly don't care if the west doesn't catch up, as long as we have an interesting scene. You don't, I do. Honestly if I'm going to watch a pro SC2 match, it will be between top players. Not top players, "excluding the majority of the best players in the world" Others have said it, seperating foreigners and koreans is the quickest way to kill the foreigner scene. | ||
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Qaatar
1409 Posts
On March 15 2011 12:22 Pokebunny wrote: I honestly don't care if the west doesn't catch up, as long as we have an interesting scene. With that mindset, then yeah, I guess none of this shit really even matters. Amateur college sports are more entertaining sometimes than the pro leagues I suppose. Of course we'll have the egos and aspirations of some of these top foreign players to contend with, but hey, the scene will be interesting...right? | ||
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