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On February 20 2011 09:55 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2011 09:53 eksert wrote:On February 20 2011 09:48 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On February 20 2011 09:47 hinnolinn wrote:
Oh man, was anybody else unhappy that nightend killed those corruptors? I was yelling for him to leave them alone so morrow couldn't redistribute that food. this is true  Morrow should have sacked them way way earlier, the moment he maxed for the first time pretty much As Ret and Idra indicated in Mr. Bitter's ZvP Vods, overlord speed for frequent scouting is necessary because unit composition (besides engagement area) decided who'll win ZvP most nowadays more than other MUs. Gg nonetheless! He already knew 100% that it was just immortals. Scouting was not the issue whatsoever. It's just a tough decision to make to just throw away 10 corruptors like that so people don't like to make it.
I think the point is he blindly made too many corruptors, which leans towards a meta game decision since there was only 1 colossus on the field. Scouting the army constantly might have made the difference in a better army composition for morrow.
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What is that Eminem'song anyway :D
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Problem with those corrupters is, if they are killed Nightend can easily switch back to colossi and roast the hydras.
Loved the series especially the mind games which were going on and I think that they both deserve to be in the main event which should be the case.
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And the TLOpen curse continues. Who will be our July? Who will be the first Zerg to take one home?
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Well, atleast now we get to see them both qualify which is really nice.
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Kinda torn on this, NightEnd outplayed Morrow in the final game, but he did get two wins on unfair positions. On the positive they both qualify.
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On February 20 2011 09:52 Highways wrote:
I think Morrow made way too much drones.
90 drones is ridiculous, considering the 200 supply limit.
Its actually close to the correct amount for that amount of bases. He was maxed and remaxed instantly. The storms were the problem, his army could have been 20 supply larger but it wouldnt have made a difference when he got rolled in seconds without doing damage. Too many corruptors was prolly the biggest problem, but its understandable since colossi is usually the main threat, Nightend was smart enough to go templar instead.
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Congratulations Nightend.
Morrow seemed to get a lot better with scouting later in that game with all those changelings, but I think he was just too caught off guard at the start. I think he only had 70-80 or so supply of an actual army (ignoring drones/queens/corruptors) in his first big engagement. Even remaking that army 2 times over, I don't think it'll ever be able to efficiently pick off enough protoss units.
Reminds me of MrBitters stream when Idra was coaching him and Idra criticized him for blindly going corruptors in games.
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Gratz to Nightend, that last game was a beautifull switch in units and punishing Morrow very badly for his blind counter to the collosus-style that he was expecting.
Apart from Morrows obvious mistakes in terms, in terms of overdroning/overcorruptoring... i feel he definitly needs to adapt more and scout more in these situations. The roach-corruptor into mass hydra/roach push is a great concept, but really just backfires on a map like shakuras, when the opponent is smart.
He definitly needed to play a lot more his mobility, adding Nydus/Drop to his options and stop Nightend from simply taking over his half of the map. It's so easy to Nydus on one of the mains and just run 10 roaches into a mineral line or even snipe a nexus or some important tech. Templar/Immortal is as immobile as it gets and can really only move in a ball and can only act in short-medium range fights.
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Such a shame he had that epic hold on scrap station going up 2-1 and still loses twice in a row.
Morrow just had no answer for the protoss deathball that shrugged aside his zerg army every game
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Makes no sense to camp and hope beating a tier3 Protoss army with 90 drones and mass roaches considering that they are 2 food...
It's painful to see a player having such a solid micro/macro and game awareness but seemingly (I know it's not like he is not aware of this issue but he doesn't seem to try to solve it) forget the basics. He lost his main with something like 4000 minerals banked...
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Well... as far as i can tell morrow still qualified with 140 points. So I expect he's not too upset^^
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On February 20 2011 09:59 TheCrow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2011 09:52 Highways wrote:
I think Morrow made way too much drones.
90 drones is ridiculous, considering the 200 supply limit. Its actually close to the correct amount for that amount of bases. He was maxed and remaxed instantly. The storms were the problem, his army could have been 20 supply larger but it wouldnt have made a difference when he got rolled in seconds without doing damage. Too many corruptors was prolly the biggest problem, but its understandable since colossi is usually the main threat, Nightend was smart enough to go templar instead.
No it's not close to the right amount. The number of bases doesn't matter, you can't let drones take too much of your supply. Also, did you see him floating 5000 minerals while being at 0 gas? He didn't need those drones, he'd have been floating mins even with 20-30 less drones. Zerg doesn't need many drones, they're gas-capped.
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wow one good game and he wins the final, maybe im just bias. Gz NightEnd i guess.
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Nightend -- I was being very critical of your play for a while but it seems your timings were much more subtle and tech-related, amazing job.
Morrow -- you played solidly this set. it's too bad corrupters are a fucking joke and only have one use ^^
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On February 20 2011 09:58 Dont-Panic wrote:
Problem with those corrupters is, if they are killed Nightend can easily switch back to colossi and roast the hydras.
Loved the series especially the mind games which were going on and I think that they both deserve to be in the main event which should be the case.
I think Nightend just flat out countered Morrow here. The best counter to HTs is, of course, roaches ultras and infestors. Morrow's late hive tech + his 100 supply held up in drones and queens made getting the right counter-army impossible. The immortals cut through lesser numbers of roaches and he simply didn't have the melee upgrades to use zerglings or ultras efficiently.
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On February 20 2011 09:52 butchji wrote:
Anyone else thinks PvZ looks incredibly boring in SC2?
Well, I think it´s just these two players, a lot of the superior protoss switch up their strats a ton, some even use warp prisms lol. Same with the zerg but it´s more seen in their macro than in their unit composition... if that makes sense. Like, I was really unimpressed with Morrow´s creep spread and economy to army ratio but for most of that game he had (with the exception of the corrupters)= a fair unit composition... except he also needed to switch to tier three WAY earlier.
But yeah, part of it is the nature of PvZ, where protoss needs to get splash damage units, and zerg can´t go air nine times outa ten due to the effectiveness of stalkers early game and phoenixes mid game.
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On February 20 2011 10:00 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2011 09:59 TheCrow wrote:On February 20 2011 09:52 Highways wrote:
I think Morrow made way too much drones.
90 drones is ridiculous, considering the 200 supply limit. Its actually close to the correct amount for that amount of bases. He was maxed and remaxed instantly. The storms were the problem, his army could have been 20 supply larger but it wouldnt have made a difference when he got rolled in seconds without doing damage. Too many corruptors was prolly the biggest problem, but its understandable since colossi is usually the main threat, Nightend was smart enough to go templar instead. No it's not close to the right amount. The number of bases doesn't matter, you can't let drones take too much of your supply. Also, did you see him floating 5000 minerals while being at 0 gas? He didn't need those drones, he'd have been floating mins even with 20-30 less drones. Zerg doesn't need many drones, they're gas-capped.
Ah well, when maxed out I have often seen top zergs have around 80 drones.
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On February 20 2011 10:00 TeWy wrote:
Makes no sense to camp and hope beating a tier3 Protoss army with 90 drones and mass roaches considering that they are 2 food...
It's painful to see a player having such a solid micro/macro and game awareness but seemingly (I know it's not like he is not aware of this issue but he doesn't seem to try to solve it) forget the basics. He lost his main with something like 4000 minerals banked...
The alternative being what? When he tried hydras, NightEnd killed 100 supply of them in 6 seconds with 2 FF's and 3 storms. BL's are the Only option that would have worked in that situation--and even then, I don't know if they could have been teched to in time.
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On February 20 2011 10:01 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2011 09:58 Dont-Panic wrote:
Problem with those corrupters is, if they are killed Nightend can easily switch back to colossi and roast the hydras.
Loved the series especially the mind games which were going on and I think that they both deserve to be in the main event which should be the case. I think Nightend just flat out countered Morrow here. HTs have to be dealt with with massive numbers of roaches and zerglings, or infestors and ultras.
Oh about this, mass speedling-roach is actually the best composition against HTs from what I've seen. He can't storm the lings at all because he'd hit his army and the Roaches don't really mind storms. Problem is that he only needs one round of Colossi to make it obsolete, but Z should have Broodlords as well.
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EPT
