EPTTeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #14 / Qualifier #7 for TSL3 - Page 93
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monx
Canada1400 Posts
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DizzyDrone
Netherlands629 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On February 20 2011 10:02 TheCrow wrote: Ah well, when maxed out I have often seen top zergs have around 80 drones. Yes but they're playing inefficiently. You just need to do what's good, not just copy others. They might win because of other reasons even if that mistake holds them back. | ||
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starcraft2rush
306 Posts
What exactly does tier 3 do for zerg in this matchup? other than 3/3/3 upgrades. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On February 20 2011 10:03 imareaver3 wrote: The alternative being what? When he tried hydras, NightEnd killed 100 supply of them in 6 seconds with 2 FF's and 3 storms. BL's are the Only option that would have worked in that situation--and even then, I don't know if they could have been teched to in time. Realistically, he needed ultras. Ultras demolish stalker armies esp. when coupled with infestors and zerglings for the surround. Brood lords are too slow and don't do very well vs. mass stalkers. | ||
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TheCrow
Norway296 Posts
On February 20 2011 10:04 Shikyo wrote: Yes but they're playing inefficiently. You just need to do what's good, not just copy others. They might win because of other reasons even if that mistake holds them back. So when IdrA has 80 drones and keeps his money low he is playing inefficiently? Lol, and were is the copying from other players comment come from? | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On February 20 2011 10:03 imareaver3 wrote: The alternative being what? When he tried hydras, NightEnd killed 100 supply of them in 6 seconds with 2 FF's and 3 storms. BL's are the Only option that would have worked in that situation--and even then, I don't know if they could have been teched to in time. Hydras aren't that bad against Storm with creep. Which brings us to another issue - creep spread. In my opinion you really need overlords above your army whenever you fight as Zerg since with creep Hydras actually can dodge storms and do infinitely better. He also had really poor creep spread throughout the game which made Hydras overall alot worse than they needed to be. | ||
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
On February 20 2011 10:05 starcraft2rush wrote: I keep seeing people mention that morrow didn't get tier 3 earlier..What Im wondering is what tier 3 would do for him to help take out the deathball. As broodlords are negated by blink and Ultras are negated or are wayyy cost ineffective against immortals. What exactly does tier 3 do for zerg in this matchup? other than 3/3/3 upgrades. Brood lords force stalkers to blink under them, putting them very close to roaches, which are cost effective vs stalker balls. That is it basically. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On February 20 2011 10:05 starcraft2rush wrote: I keep seeing people mention that morrow didn't get tier 3 earlier..What Im wondering is what tier 3 would do for him to help take out the deathball. As broodlords are negated by blink and Ultras are negated or are wayyy cost ineffective against immortals. What exactly does tier 3 do for zerg in this matchup? other than 3/3/3 upgrades. If you could make any unit you want, zergling ultra armies will counter stalker immortal armies. Getting there is a different matter. Morrow had most of his supply tied up in drones, queens, and corrupters. By contrast, Nightend had a very cost effective immortal stalker HT ball that demolishes "300/200" roach/hydra pushes. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On February 20 2011 10:05 starcraft2rush wrote: I keep seeing people mention that morrow didn't get tier 3 earlier..What Im wondering is what tier 3 would do for him to help take out the deathball. As broodlords are negated by blink and Ultras are negated or are wayyy cost ineffective against immortals. What exactly does tier 3 do for zerg in this matchup? other than 3/3/3 upgrades. Broodlords are great vs Immortals, ultras vs templars. Vs blink you can fungal the Stalkers and so on. Problem with this is that it costs a million billion gas, but there's an answer for everything. On February 20 2011 10:06 TheCrow wrote: If he's playing vs Protoss with 80 drones and not making speedlings and keeping his money low something's really strange. So when IdrA has 80 drones and keeps his money low he is playing inefficiently? Lol, and were is the copying from other players comment come from? | ||
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hitman133
United States1425 Posts
On February 20 2011 10:05 Azarkon wrote: Realistically, he needed ultras. Ultras demolish stalker armies esp. when coupled with infestors and zerglings for the surround. Brood lords are too slow and don't do very well vs. mass stalkers. lol, you didn't see that much immortals in the game right ? Obviously NightEnd played perfect and not much Morrow can counter that, unless he cut probes and switch to broodlords earlier | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On February 20 2011 10:06 Fa1nT wrote: Brood lords force stalkers to blink under them, putting them very close to roaches, which are cost effective vs stalker balls. That is it basically. Throw in a couple infestors as well to lock down their blink. It's really the best thing you can do against that unit comp. The archons/zealots/immortals Nightend had would have killed ultras with very minimal losses. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On February 20 2011 10:05 starcraft2rush wrote: I keep seeing people mention that morrow didn't get tier 3 earlier..What Im wondering is what tier 3 would do for him to help take out the deathball. As broodlords are negated by blink and Ultras are negated or are wayyy cost ineffective against immortals. What exactly does tier 3 do for zerg in this matchup? other than 3/3/3 upgrades. Ultralisks are good against protoss, even with immortals, why? First, because they tank, and second, because they can be microed to counter FFs, allowing hydras to deal their sick DPS and move away from storms. Plus, once you take out some immortals, ultrahydra plows through stalkers with incredible ease. | ||
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excelsi0r
Romania1 Post
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pilsken
Germany441 Posts
Ah well, when maxed out I have often seen top zergs have around 80 drones. 80 is the absolute maximum you can afford, and even then you should probably dump quite a bit into spines after having gathered enough minerals for 1-2 remaxes. Ret likes to play with far less drones, around 65 and Idra says he goes up to 70-75 at most iirc. The 200 supply cap hurts Zerg the most when your core unit is the Roach, which is great and all but far from supply-efficent so you need all the supply you can get. A high-templar takes for example the amount of supply as a Roach. Make that 20 drones less, 10 corruptors less and you have 20 roaches/hydras more in your army and that fight would have looked differently. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On February 20 2011 10:08 excelsi0r wrote: Nightend played better but almost everyone was rooting for morrow it seems. So yeah, let's talk about what morrow did wrong. Nightend gets no credit. Only his race gets that, right? :D Only zerg players can be any good at SC2... protoss and terran should apologize for playing those races :D | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
On February 20 2011 10:09 pilsken wrote: 80 is the absolute maximum you can afford, and even then you should probably dump quite a bit into spines after having gathered enough minerals for 1-2 remaxes. Ret likes to play with far less drones, around 65 and Idra says he goes up to 70-75 at most iirc. The 200 supply cap hurts Zerg the most when your core unit is the Roach, which is great and all but far from supply-efficent so you need all the supply you can get. A high-templar takes for example the amount of supply as a Roach. Make that 20 drones less, 10 corruptors less and you have 20 roaches/hydras more in your army and that fight would have looked differently. Against those storms? Not really. He might have killed 5 more stalkers | ||
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kidd
United States2848 Posts
On February 20 2011 10:04 Shikyo wrote: Yes but they're playing inefficiently. You just need to do what's good, not just copy others. They might win because of other reasons even if that mistake holds them back. It depends on the build. You can't say in general that 80 drones is always bad, if you're on enough bases and have double extractor on all of them, it's fine to have 80 though 75 is better. | ||
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starcraft2rush
306 Posts
On February 20 2011 10:06 Fa1nT wrote: Brood lords force stalkers to blink under them, putting them very close to roaches, which are cost effective vs stalker balls. That is it basically. Well I have to think upgraded stalkers with immortal, sentry(guardian shield) and templar/collosus are extremely cost effective against roaches. | ||
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Turenne
331 Posts
On February 20 2011 10:08 excelsi0r wrote: Nightend played better but almost everyone was rooting for morrow it seems. So yeah, let's talk about what morrow did wrong. Nightend gets no credit. Only his race gets that, right? :D Thats great and all dude, but what was your opinion on Morrow's play? | ||
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