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On January 20 2011 09:21 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Haha yeah the fact that Idra has claimed numerous times that cheese doesn't take skill makes it funny seeing him try to cheese himself and fail. Doesn't seem so simple anymore does it? And this is considering that there truly is no such thing as luck, as the decision whether to cheese or not itself takes "skill" and good judgement to make.
It doesn't though. Where's the skill in 6 pool while pulling drones? A little bit of micro sure but I wouldn't say thats "skill". And the fact that your quoting him on that when he cheesed (my god his first time!) is kinda lol worthy. Cheesing in a bo5 is fine (especially on a map like jungle) but when its all you know how to do yeah thats what he means by that.
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On January 20 2011 02:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
No, I didnt let him in on purpose - but just because I think hes MAYBE 6 pooling me doesnt mean Im going to make a wall I would never ever make otherwise (tho to be honest, theres very little reason to NOT do it now that I think about it, might make it my new standard).
Anyhow, I think (not really sure?) the "oooooh" came at the point he pulled 6 drones not when he made the 6 pool so it was too late to make a full wall without "cheating" (and I still didnt know what he was doing for sure).
Totally agree, an "oooooh" can mean lots of things so no way Jinro could do anything about it with 100% certainty, he could've even guessed a rush before!
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So when will the Semis be for Code S? According to the liquibet, betting closes at 11pm EST on sunday the 22nd (AKA 13:00 KST)
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4AM EST -- aka, in 5hrs! Check calendar.
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On January 20 2011 12:47 Gescom wrote:
4AM EST -- aka, in 5hrs! Check calendar.
That's code A. Code S is on Sunday at 6AM EST.
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On January 20 2011 12:47 Gescom wrote:
4AM EST -- aka, in 5hrs! Check calendar.
That is code A semifinals. Code S semifinals should be sometime next week.
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On January 20 2011 05:16 Tyree wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 05:11 FALAPARK wrote:On January 20 2011 05:00 Xayoz wrote:On January 20 2011 03:59 Trentelshark wrote:
Every game Foxer is in gives me a headache. Yes he is good, yes he is abusing the immobility of the Siege Tanks, but it makes for boring viewing when you see the same thing over and over again. 8 - 12 Medivacs, a couple Marauders, 150 Marines, drops everywhere, base trade, repeat. I on the other hand find siegetank/viking spam in pretty much every TvT agonisingly boring. I'm kinda glad GSL is planning on introducing new and bigger maps - this should certainly encourage the infantry heavy play style in TvT due to its mobility. I'm quite happy about both of my favorites advancing. Gonna be rather torn for Jinro vs MK match tho. On one hand we have Jinro who is both awesome and european. Then again there is MK who has helped me to improve my gameplay so much and whose playstyle I really love. Well, I guess I'll just have to cheer for both and hope one of them takes this GSL. Jinro should really get some cool jacket like Idras and avoid those horrible puffy ones that appear to be in fashion in Korea tho. I don't know, seeing how nestea plays, I can't see any Terran player winning gsl, unless they cheese him out of the tournament but these matches are bo5 and cheesing constantly will fail.. so Nestea is our gsl winner again, well at least that's what I think. Anyone agree? I agree, i think the 3 Terrans will be gunning for him, the biggest chance anyone has to beat him is MVP, as i think he is perhaps the most talented SC2 player in the world. I definatly think Jinro could beat him aswell in a macro oriented game, pressuring him early is really difficult as Nestea seems to have mastered fending off any early pressure from anyone. But Jinro has the game sense and macro, he is also smart and rarely takes big risks. MKP has to have improved alot to pose a challange to Nestea, i hope he learned a few new tricks and can take revenge on him, if he isent improved alot then i just see Nestea running him over like in the finals.
Your last paragraph really bothered me so I had to point it out. Nestea didn't "run him over" at all. Foxer was ahead for the majority of the finals, and it came to the very last game to decide the winner, which wasn't one-sided either.
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On January 20 2011 13:18 Vorlik wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 05:16 Tyree wrote:On January 20 2011 05:11 FALAPARK wrote:On January 20 2011 05:00 Xayoz wrote:On January 20 2011 03:59 Trentelshark wrote:
Every game Foxer is in gives me a headache. Yes he is good, yes he is abusing the immobility of the Siege Tanks, but it makes for boring viewing when you see the same thing over and over again. 8 - 12 Medivacs, a couple Marauders, 150 Marines, drops everywhere, base trade, repeat. I on the other hand find siegetank/viking spam in pretty much every TvT agonisingly boring. I'm kinda glad GSL is planning on introducing new and bigger maps - this should certainly encourage the infantry heavy play style in TvT due to its mobility. I'm quite happy about both of my favorites advancing. Gonna be rather torn for Jinro vs MK match tho. On one hand we have Jinro who is both awesome and european. Then again there is MK who has helped me to improve my gameplay so much and whose playstyle I really love. Well, I guess I'll just have to cheer for both and hope one of them takes this GSL. Jinro should really get some cool jacket like Idras and avoid those horrible puffy ones that appear to be in fashion in Korea tho. I don't know, seeing how nestea plays, I can't see any Terran player winning gsl, unless they cheese him out of the tournament but these matches are bo5 and cheesing constantly will fail.. so Nestea is our gsl winner again, well at least that's what I think. Anyone agree? I agree, i think the 3 Terrans will be gunning for him, the biggest chance anyone has to beat him is MVP, as i think he is perhaps the most talented SC2 player in the world. I definatly think Jinro could beat him aswell in a macro oriented game, pressuring him early is really difficult as Nestea seems to have mastered fending off any early pressure from anyone. But Jinro has the game sense and macro, he is also smart and rarely takes big risks. MKP has to have improved alot to pose a challange to Nestea, i hope he learned a few new tricks and can take revenge on him, if he isent improved alot then i just see Nestea running him over like in the finals. Your last paragraph really bothered me so I had to point it out. Nestea didn't "run him over" at all. Foxer was ahead for the majority of the finals, and it came to the very last game to decide the winner, which wasn't one-sided either.
uh correct me if im wrong but wasn't there a tournament recently in which MKP beat Nestea (in the finals)? i think i heard this uttered during the games last night.
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It doesn't though. Where's the skill in 6 pool while pulling drones? A little bit of micro sure but I wouldn't say thats "skill". And the fact that your quoting him on that when he cheesed (my god his first time!) is kinda lol worthy. Cheesing in a bo5 is fine (especially on a map like jungle) but when its all you know how to do yeah thats what he means by that.
I see what you mean, but when someone states his words in the fashion Idra does, it's hard not to take the meaning literally. Don't know how to describe it but I hope you know what I mean. In my definition, skill is... everything that makes you as a player up, not just "extra talent". There's not such thing really, if you're good you're skillful, if you're not then you don't have as much skill. Unless if that's not what you meant when you said 'A little bit of micro sure but I wouldn't say thats "skill" '. (When you said it's not skill, i hope you don't mean the extreme case where someone entirely new to an RTS would be able to micro at all?) But that you mean that a mere amount of micro isn't really skill intensive to be notable.
It's getting late, i'm tired, idk if my posts are making any sense 
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But in one hand you have Jinro with some amazing practice partners (Zenio, Cezanne, etc.) and Ret (who knows pretty well IdrA's style)... also you have MC to support and cheer for you.
IdrA in the other hand doesn't really have any class S terran to practice (as far as I know). Artosis could coach him, and Tasteless could make some pretty cool jokes to cheer him up... but nothing is compared to have an amazing practice partners group.
I wonder if Idra's BM is the reason he does not have good practice partners in Korea. He's good enough that he should be an asset to any Korean team, yet he's off on his own. Whereas you have this great partnership between TL and oGs. Maybe that could be lesson for prospective progamers for at least one reason to be pleasant instead of rude.
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Both series were very good. I am glad to see such good games, though I think it was impossible for the Idra vs Jinro game to live up the hype! I was very entertained either way. Good job to both of them!
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On January 20 2011 09:31 Clog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 09:21 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Haha yeah the fact that Idra has claimed numerous times that cheese doesn't take skill makes it funny seeing him try to cheese himself and fail. Doesn't seem so simple anymore does it? And this is considering that there truly is no such thing as luck, as the decision whether to cheese or not itself takes "skill" and good judgement to make. It was rather simple, actually, he had to play on Jungle Basin and felt he had a better chance to win by cheesing. Might have been a different case if his terran opponent didn't know how to macro well.
I think Idra wanted to make a statement since the 2nd game after the bunker contain. It's more like "Fuck this game" from there on, and no matter how you try to avoid you do see the underlying balance problem as well as super easy-low risk-high reward crap like bunker/pylon contains. Really, the most T would lose are a couple SCVs and a marine or two. (and likely kill quite a few drones/lings in the process) And if the bunkers go up, well it doesn't even have to go up a single scv can lay out the foundation and T can send additional scv's as needed. If bunker goes up, then game is pretty much over anyway.
I hope blizzard will look at this issue just as they did with the pylon stuff.
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I don't buy that "cheese" from the last game. To me it only looked like idra raged a lot and wanted to go home. (yes, even if money was on the line)
Guess he will never answer about something like that on an interview.
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Entertaining as fuck even though they were short series (excluding that first ridiculous MKP / Nada match).
JINROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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On January 20 2011 14:11 xxxxxxb wrote:
I don't buy that "cheese" from the last game. To me it only looked like idra raged a lot and wanted to go home. (yes, even if money was on the line)
Guess he will never answer about something like that on an interview.
LOL you didn't watch the matches right... artosis did told Idra tell him ahead of time he would 6pool if he was 1-2 at the arrival to that map
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On January 20 2011 13:29 FallDownMarigold wrote:
uh correct me if im wrong but wasn't there a tournament recently in which MKP beat Nestea (in the finals)? i think i heard this uttered during the games last night.
Nah, that was Mvp in the Gainwards tournament. Mvp only lost 1 game the whole time, and that was to MKP.
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On January 20 2011 14:19 checo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 14:11 xxxxxxb wrote:
I don't buy that "cheese" from the last game. To me it only looked like idra raged a lot and wanted to go home. (yes, even if money was on the line)
Guess he will never answer about something like that on an interview. LOL you didn't watch the matches right... artosis did told Idra tell him ahead of time he would 6pool if he was 1-2 at the arrival to that map
Yes, watching the english cast is the only way to spectate gsl, right? Don't try to sound so clever, please.
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On January 20 2011 14:11 xxxxxxb wrote:
I don't buy that "cheese" from the last game. To me it only looked like idra raged a lot and wanted to go home. (yes, even if money was on the line)
Guess he will never answer about something like that on an interview.
As Artosis pointed out, and this makes a great deal of sense, IdrA did this specifically to counter what Jinro likes to do on this map, which is scout late and get two barracks. He even planned his attack path down the right side of the map to avoid being scouted. Given his odds of winning a ZvT on jungle basin against Jinro, I would say he made a good call, and it almost paid off. I wonder if it would have gone differently if IdrA had sent one or two lings/drones to check for any bunkers building in the back or the base and tried to kill constructing scvs.
I don't think IdrA really has issues with players that cheese in specific situations that call for it, but more so that he takes issue when the player's main plan is to try some sort of cheese all-in (think BitByBit). Him cheesing to try to stay in the series on a tough map certainly does not make him a hypocrite as far as I'm concerned.
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Yeah, MVP beat NesTea 3-0 a week-and-a-half ago in the Gainward tournament. That's why my hopes for NesTea are grim, despite NesTea not having dropped a single game thus far in the tournament (granted, neither has MVP dropped a game).
Here's to Jinro claiming the "best terran" label by taking down MK and MVP.
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Anyone know where the Jinro interview is?
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EPT
