Code A quarter finals starts and end today. All those players are already garanteed an up and down game. They now fight for more money, and the ability to choose their Code S opponents for the 2 finalists.
Personnal recommendation : Impressive play by the winner, first game is my recommendation, watch all games if you like macro/harass play. + Show Spoiler [Game 1] +
Personnal recommendation : Good play by the winner in game 1 (but average play from the loser), VERY good play by the winner in game 2 and good play (despite a few mistakes) from the loser. Game 2 is a must see tho imo. It's a very good inspiration for players from both races on how to play this map. + Show Spoiler [Game 1] +
The 4 best players are facing themsleves imo, in the first 2 games. The winner will come from that group imo. Banbans, TOP, July and Bleach are all code S material.
Those are some pretty fast thirds from both guys, TOPs little push seemed a bit wasteful. Drop snipes the Robo bay though before thermal lance can finish
On January 18 2011 18:24 bananafever wrote: are the winners of this code s for sure or do they have to play up and down matches in addition??
The top 8 (the guys playing today) participate in the up and down matches. Further progression just means you can win a bit of money, and if you make the finals you get to pick your opponent.
On January 18 2011 18:29 Meteora.GB wrote: Geez, BanBans has around 80 APM compare to 200 from Top. Not that it really matters, but I'm surprised to see low APM in the GSL.
Protoss doesn't actually require more apm. At least at BanBans level.
On January 18 2011 18:25 Tosho wrote: Nice game, phoenix do seem to have more potential to discover.
Colossi/phoenixes were pretty common before the patch already, I've seen both Genius and Tester use them to soak up damage from the vikings. I never really liked it, since it's extremely gas heavy. Spamming zealots as meatshield against marauders is fine, only 100 minerals down the drain. But 100 gas for each phoenix is a whole different story. Imo the korean PvT is currently behind the "western" PvT on metagame. Even if they execute their builds perfectly, they stay with colossi way too long. MC is the only one who has figured out the pro-terran-timings, once his terran opponents have sufficient vikings he has chargelots/blink and HTs - as seen in his game vs Nada.
On January 18 2011 18:29 Meteora.GB wrote: Geez, BanBans has around 80 APM compare to 200 from Top. Not that it really matters, but I'm surprised to see low APM in the GSL.
Well the 200 is just spam anyway, when it gets going BanBans will prolly have higher.
On January 18 2011 18:29 Meteora.GB wrote: Geez, BanBans has around 80 APM compare to 200 from Top. Not that it really matters, but I'm surprised to see low APM in the GSL.
Well the 200 is just spam anyway, when it gets going BanBans will prolly have higher.
He really could've used some additional APM when he didn't send units back to defend against the drop...
On January 18 2011 18:29 Meteora.GB wrote: Geez, BanBans has around 80 APM compare to 200 from Top. Not that it really matters, but I'm surprised to see low APM in the GSL.
My default APM is around 60, and I have won players who had triple of that.
I can do 400APM with spam but that doesn't make any of it useful.
On January 18 2011 18:29 Meteora.GB wrote: Geez, BanBans has around 80 APM compare to 200 from Top. Not that it really matters, but I'm surprised to see low APM in the GSL.
My default APM is around 60, and I have won players who had triple of that.
I can do 400APM with spam but that doesn't make any of it useful.
On January 18 2011 18:29 Meteora.GB wrote: Geez, BanBans has around 80 APM compare to 200 from Top. Not that it really matters, but I'm surprised to see low APM in the GSL.
My default APM is around 60, and I have won players who had triple of that.
I can do 400APM with spam but that doesn't make any of it useful.
At GSL level, even code A, having less than 150 APM is a crutch.
On January 18 2011 18:29 Meteora.GB wrote: Geez, BanBans has around 80 APM compare to 200 from Top. Not that it really matters, but I'm surprised to see low APM in the GSL.
Well the 200 is just spam anyway, when it gets going BanBans will prolly have higher.
He really could've used some additional APM when he didn't send units back to defend against the drop...
He had like a full minute to do that...it wasn't his APM that held him back, he just decided not to (whether it was like Artosis said, scared that his army would get caught out of position, or something else), but that's a decision making thing, not his APM.
On January 18 2011 18:29 Meteora.GB wrote: Geez, BanBans has around 80 APM compare to 200 from Top. Not that it really matters, but I'm surprised to see low APM in the GSL.
My default APM is around 60, and I have won players who had triple of that.
I can do 400APM with spam but that doesn't make any of it useful.
Do you play on professional level?
No, just trying to point out the uselessness of looking at APM meter.
On January 18 2011 18:38 sleepingdog wrote: Lol Banbans streamlines all his army against a perfect arch, no force-fields, no nothing...and everything just dies.
Amazing how Tastosis are consistently snearing "A players", someone should explain them that they're degrading the whole significance of the tournament.
On January 18 2011 18:29 Meteora.GB wrote: Geez, BanBans has around 80 APM compare to 200 from Top. Not that it really matters, but I'm surprised to see low APM in the GSL.
My default APM is around 60, and I have won players who had triple of that.
I can do 400APM with spam but that doesn't make any of it useful.
Do you play on professional level?
No, just trying to point out the uselessness of looking at APM meter.
If you want to compete on this level, you won't get away with having 60 APM.
On January 18 2011 18:38 sleepingdog wrote: Lol Banbans streamlines all his army against a perfect arch, no force-fields, no nothing...and everything just dies.
Nice EMP made it so he couldn't force-field, regardless though bad play by Banbans.
BanBans outplayed in any possible way. Top plays brilliantly, I've been following his play since the beginning of code A matches, and he is actually better than 1/2 of Code S players. He actually 4-0'ed MC in one of the tournaments.
On January 18 2011 18:38 RHoudini wrote: Amazing how Tastosis are consistently snearing "A players", someone should explain them that they're degrading the whole significance of the tournament.
Yeah, it's annoying that they're trash-talking people. Especially Artosis; these are people he couldn't even compete with when he tried to qualify for GSL, yet he acts as if he'd outplay them any day - which isn't the case.
On January 18 2011 18:38 sleepingdog wrote: Lol Banbans streamlines all his army against a perfect arch, no force-fields, no nothing...and everything just dies.
He emped them
He did? I probably missed it because my stream doesn't really show "images" but giant coloured blobs
On January 18 2011 18:38 RHoudini wrote: Amazing how Tastosis are consistently snearing "A players", someone should explain them that they're degrading the whole significance of the tournament.
But they are right, people notice the difference anyway. A players make mistakes that S players don't like seen from Banbanssu right now.
Average apm doesnt matter too much, i mean im in masters but my apm is usually like 50 unless im in a battle it shoots up to 400, but the average is still like below 100
On January 18 2011 18:38 RHoudini wrote: Amazing how Tastosis are consistently snearing "A players", someone should explain them that they're degrading the whole significance of the tournament.
To be honest I would expect MUCH MUCH more from Code A players. These are just bad games so far. The decisions and micro are just embarassing. Just bad...
On January 18 2011 18:38 RHoudini wrote: Amazing how Tastosis are consistently snearing "A players", someone should explain them that they're degrading the whole significance of the tournament.
To be honest I would expect MUCH MUCH more from Code A players. These are just bad games so far. The decisions and micro are just embarassing. Just bad...
To be fair, TOP didn't have to show anything extraordinary here....I mean, he dropped twice and Banbans just died afterwards. Like he has never been dropped before, putting important tech-structures at drop-able locations, moving with colossi in front vs drops - just terrible.
I play T and P and the way TOP just played is just scary as a P. As a P you rush to tier 3 to stay alive vs the MMM but instead of bumrushing you he just expands and you can't do anything about it 'cause you're short on units.
On January 18 2011 18:38 RHoudini wrote: Amazing how Tastosis are consistently snearing "A players", someone should explain them that they're degrading the whole significance of the tournament.
But they are right, people notice the difference anyway. A players make mistakes that S players don't like seen from Banbanssu right now.
It's also part of creating an allure to S class that makes S class players seem like legends, compared with mere mortals in A class. This is probably good for the sport as a whole, even if it comes at the expense of some A class players getting shit talked.
On January 18 2011 18:38 RHoudini wrote: Amazing how Tastosis are consistently snearing "A players", someone should explain them that they're degrading the whole significance of the tournament.
Yeah, it's annoying that they're trash-talking people. Especially Artosis; these are people he couldn't even compete with when he tried to qualify for GSL, yet he acts as if he'd outplay them any day - which isn't the case.
Okay seriously, these Code A players should not be making basic tactical mistakes, but many of them are. Tastosis wouldn't be doing their job correctly if they didn't point out these mistakes and tell why what they are doing is wrong.
On January 18 2011 18:38 RHoudini wrote: Amazing how Tastosis are consistently snearing "A players", someone should explain them that they're degrading the whole significance of the tournament.
To be honest I would expect MUCH MUCH more from Code A players. These are just bad games so far. The decisions and micro are just embarassing. Just bad...
I agree, Banban's play was pretty bad, Top was doing fine though.
My point is that Tastosis are using "Code A" as an insult, not as an honor. And that's probably not how GOM intended this...
On January 18 2011 18:47 BobMcJohnson wrote: From which point are they qualified for the up/down matches? ro4? or are they already qualified since ro8?
On January 18 2011 18:38 RHoudini wrote: Amazing how Tastosis are consistently snearing "A players", someone should explain them that they're degrading the whole significance of the tournament.
Yeah, it's annoying that they're trash-talking people. Especially Artosis; these are people he couldn't even compete with when he tried to qualify for GSL, yet he acts as if he'd outplay them any day - which isn't the case.
Okay seriously, these Code A players should not be making basic tactical mistakes, but many of them are. Tastosis wouldn't be doing their job correctly if they didn't point out these mistakes and tell why what they are doing is wrong.
Seriously, he's the analyst, he's supposed to get in-depth about the plays and what's going right/wrong. He's giving opinions; with the exception of Bitbybit he's not out-and-out trash talking anyone.
So much wrong in what Tasteless just said... Starship troopers is based on a book much older than Starcraft and Starcraft stole from Warhammer 40k not Aliens vs Predator.
That was amazing positioning and attack by Zerg. I've been really impressed by Cezanne, he just seems like a really smart zerg. Definite S class material.
On January 18 2011 19:03 Deekin[ wrote: uuuh you can really see the difference between Code A and Code S with these games
Yeah, this game is better then all the ones from yesterday.
Hundreds times worse than the average Code S game
And Zerg should GG
Well, the reason why you don't GG at the "lower" (compared to S class) level is BECAUSE players are more liable to make mistakes.Few good fungals and baneling surround and it can be over
pretty good back and forth game. should have just reinforced the close 3rd earlier instead of trying to take 4 i feel. maybe a few ultras should have been out by now but we'll see how broods do.
that was pretty painful to watch...zerg made so many bad decisions including making a hatchery far away (2 times) when he could have made it in his 2nd natural and have it easier to defend..
Nice match. But I don't get the ultras as Tastosis was saying. Actually I don't think they've been useful in any matchup for a long time, even as a tech-switch. They're just so mediocre. More broodlords/corruptors and infestors make so much more sense.
On January 18 2011 19:15 Elwar wrote: Nice match. But I don't get the ultras as Tastosis was saying. Actually I don't think they've been useful in any matchup for a long time, even as a tech-switch. They're just so mediocre. More broodlords/corruptors and infestors make so much more sense.
no they don't it just looks cool but you can never kill the terran ball with this composition.. you need a big big sling/bling in addition..
On January 18 2011 19:11 Telcontar wrote: Pretty poor play from both but decently entertaining.
Are you kidding? Cezanne played absolutely amazing aside from his hatchery first choice in the beginning... really that's the only reason for which sC won. All of his macro advantage which he just kept throughout the game stemmed from there... Cezanne did an amazing job. Pretty disappointing to see it go to waste though. Hope he's gonna crush sC in the two next games.
On January 18 2011 19:17 MrCon wrote: Cezanne had a good attack timing when he had his first broodlords, he could have pushed the gold "easily" and made tons of damage, he waited too long.
It wasn't gonna die though. Reactor vikings are out too fast and 5 broods won't kill a pf against repairing scvs.
On January 18 2011 19:15 Elwar wrote: Nice match. But I don't get the ultras as Tastosis was saying. Actually I don't think they've been useful in any matchup for a long time, even as a tech-switch. They're just so mediocre. More broodlords/corruptors and infestors make so much more sense.
Even unupgraded mutas would have been better than ultras... Plus you already have infestors to deal with the marines.
And in game 2, Cezanne clearly learned from FruitDealer's mistake and didn't place the spine crawler on the wrong side of the hatchery.
On January 18 2011 19:11 Telcontar wrote: Pretty poor play from both but decently entertaining.
Are you kidding? Cezanne played absolutely amazing aside from his hatchery first choice in the beginning... really that's the only reason for which sC won. All of his macro advantage which he just kept throughout the game stemmed from there... Cezanne did an amazing job. Pretty disappointing to see it go to waste though. Hope he's gonna crush sC in the two next games.
Well i don't normally want to be overly critical but should we go through the list of what cezanne did wrong?
-Scout 2 rax but build a banelings nest instead of pulling drones. -Rebuild the 2nd expansion at the same location only to have it taken out again. -Lose his 3rd base to just a handful of marines when he had more than enough to take it out. -Sit with his broodlords letting SC build up the viking number.
The only reason he came back in the first place was because SC didn't get any tanks and got careless.
I gotta say that these code A games are quite poor compared to the games I saw this weekend of the European top SC2 scene at the Homestory Cup. The gap between Korea and the West is not that big, if there is one at all.
On January 18 2011 19:22 Kamais_Ookin wrote: Why doesn't Cezanne gg? There's no shame at this point of the game.
Money is on the line.
What's honorable about prematurely leaving a game instead of showing fighting spirit, use the time to practice your skills and see what you can do and at the same time see if your opponent might make a mistake out of overconfidence, allowing you to stay in the game? That's for most games though, staying ig 1 base vs 2 base zvt on LT doesn't seem winnable.
On January 18 2011 19:26 Dexx wrote: I gotta say that these code A games are quite poor compared to the games I saw this weekend of the European top SC2 scene at the Homestory Cup. The gap between Korea and the West is not that big, if there is one at all.
Yeah I think that too, aside for the real top players like MC, MVP, Nestea etc...
We all know that hatch first is the correct response to 2rax, all the top zerg's have said this. The fact that Cezanne is getting so far behind defending it poorly shows more how difficult it is for zerg to defend it perfectly, which is really the only way to not be behind afterwards. If only the absolute best zergs can defend it without severe losses when every terran can do it effectively makes a strategy if not imbalanced, perhaps a bit too strong or easy to perform.
And to those saying "LOLhatchfirst" should a BO loss really be determined at 15 supply? Would anyone enjoy chess if you automatically lost if you made the incorrect opening move?
On January 18 2011 19:26 Dexx wrote: I gotta say that these code A games are quite poor compared to the games I saw this weekend of the European top SC2 scene at the Homestory Cup. The gap between Korea and the West is not that big, if there is one at all.
This is Code A - they shouldn't be as good as the top European players. If you want to compare the best Euro players, you should compare them to the Code S players. I'm not saying there is a big gap, just that saying "Code A is nothing compared to Europe's best SC" is kind of.. Well, just doesn't make sense.
On January 18 2011 19:26 Dexx wrote: I gotta say that these code A games are quite poor compared to the games I saw this weekend of the European top SC2 scene at the Homestory Cup. The gap between Korea and the West is not that big, if there is one at all.
Yeah I think that too, aside for the real top players like MC, MVP, Nestea etc...
i agree when it comes to T and P.. but korean zergs are way better than european..
Wow. I have to say that sc played brilliantly today. He may have lost more than enough marines to banelings sometimes, but overall he was pretty much never behind in supply both games. Nice play.
On January 18 2011 19:26 Dexx wrote: I gotta say that these code A games are quite poor compared to the games I saw this weekend of the European top SC2 scene at the Homestory Cup. The gap between Korea and the West is not that big, if there is one at all.
Yeah I think that too, aside for the real top players like MC, MVP, Nestea etc...
i agree when it comes to T and P.. but korean zergs are way better than european..
100% sure decemvre is better than most if not all the code A zergs.
On January 18 2011 19:26 Dexx wrote: I gotta say that these code A games are quite poor compared to the games I saw this weekend of the European top SC2 scene at the Homestory Cup. The gap between Korea and the West is not that big, if there is one at all.
Yeah I think that too, aside for the real top players like MC, MVP, Nestea etc...
i agree when it comes to T and P.. but korean zergs are way better than european..
100% sure decemvre is better than most if not all the code A zergs.
On January 18 2011 19:26 Dexx wrote: I gotta say that these code A games are quite poor compared to the games I saw this weekend of the European top SC2 scene at the Homestory Cup. The gap between Korea and the West is not that big, if there is one at all.
Yeah I think that too, aside for the real top players like MC, MVP, Nestea etc...
i agree when it comes to T and P.. but korean zergs are way better than european..
100% sure decemvre is better than most if not all the code A zergs.
I think Cezanne really, really hates marines. He stays in the game until he has killed as many as he could, until every baneling has gooed up a marine's armor, and until every last point of energy has been spent on his infestors.
That said, LT is a terrible map for Zerg. His only shot was succesfully hatching first and then macroing like a madman.
On January 18 2011 19:11 Telcontar wrote: Pretty poor play from both but decently entertaining.
Are you kidding? Cezanne played absolutely amazing aside from his hatchery first choice in the beginning... really that's the only reason for which sC won. All of his macro advantage which he just kept throughout the game stemmed from there... Cezanne did an amazing job. Pretty disappointing to see it go to waste though. Hope he's gonna crush sC in the two next games.
Well i don't normally want to be overly critical but should we go through the list of what cezanne did wrong?
-Scout 2 rax but build a banelings nest instead of pulling drones. -Rebuild the 2nd expansion at the same location only to have it taken out again. -Lose his 3rd base to just a handful of marines when he had more than enough to take it out. -Sit with his broodlords letting SC build up the viking number.
The only reason he came back in the first place was because SC didn't get any tanks and got careless.
Don't wanna discuss it for too long as the 2nd match is almost over as well, but he managed to stay in the game and put up a fight until the very end. Game could have went either way had he just played a little better. He didn't - sC played too well, attacking Cezanne at multiple locations in almost every attack while Cezanne needed all of his army to be able to do anything against microed stimmed mmms.
My point is this: he put up an even fight until the very end while sC did well with his macro and multi location attacks. He managed to stay in against a good player despite a significant disadvantage. I'd say that this is a good show of skill, while the unit composition (except for ultras) kept it entertaining. The mistakes in the beginning were devastating and unfortunate, but not big enough to warrant a "Code A games are so awful", when it was in fact more entertaining and showing more skill and spirit than many Code S matches.
On January 18 2011 19:26 Dexx wrote: I gotta say that these code A games are quite poor compared to the games I saw this weekend of the European top SC2 scene at the Homestory Cup. The gap between Korea and the West is not that big, if there is one at all.
Yeah I think that too, aside for the real top players like MC, MVP, Nestea etc...
i agree when it comes to T and P.. but korean zergs are way better than european..
100% sure decemvre is better than most if not all the code A zergs.
On January 18 2011 19:26 Dexx wrote: I gotta say that these code A games are quite poor compared to the games I saw this weekend of the European top SC2 scene at the Homestory Cup. The gap between Korea and the West is not that big, if there is one at all.
Yeah I think that too, aside for the real top players like MC, MVP, Nestea etc...
i agree when it comes to T and P.. but korean zergs are way better than european..
100% sure decemvre is better than most if not all the code A zergs.
I think saying that Decemvre is better than a player like JulyZerg or Ret is a bit of an overstatement. You have to take into account that the players who decemvre plays against are only masters, not even pro. When you play against worse people it makes you look better. If a european zerg played against a top korean he would also look pretty bad.
On January 18 2011 19:26 Dexx wrote: I gotta say that these code A games are quite poor compared to the games I saw this weekend of the European top SC2 scene at the Homestory Cup. The gap between Korea and the West is not that big, if there is one at all.
Yeah I think that too, aside for the real top players like MC, MVP, Nestea etc...
i agree when it comes to T and P.. but korean zergs are way better than european..
100% sure decemvre is better than most if not all the code A zergs.
I think saying that Decemvre is better than a player like JulyZerg is a bit of an overstatement. You have to take into account that the players who decemvre plays against are only masters, not even pro. When you play against worse people it makes you look better. If a european zerg played against a top korean he would also look pretty bad.
Byun looked good in the last round, this might actually be a decent match =)
Don't know why people say today has been boring, the top/banbans games had mistakes but were pretty entertaining on the whole, and the first cezanne/sc game was sloppy but fun ^^
Hahaha, 61 no and 2 yes, i don't need a spoiler tag to know that the terran won and the zerg lost. Never change TL, never change. Now, i just wish for a terran all-kill. It may be possible, Moon is not very solid. The only obstacle will be JulyZerg.
On January 18 2011 19:41 HwangjaeTerran wrote: Artosis didn't autocorrect Tasteless this time, well I think we all already now it was shark who did the inventing and July popularized it :D
For being such an oldschool player it amazes me how frequently Tasteless is wrong on BW history.
On January 18 2011 19:41 HwangjaeTerran wrote: Artosis didn't autocorrect Tasteless this time, well I think we all already now it was shark who did the inventing and July popularized it :D
For being such an oldschool player it amazes me how frequently Tasteless is wrong on BW history.
yea tasteless definitely makes a lot of mistakes or gets mixed up with stuff
glad we have the Wikipedia of starcraft that is Artosis
On January 18 2011 19:41 HwangjaeTerran wrote: Artosis didn't autocorrect Tasteless this time, well I think we all already now it was shark who did the inventing and July popularized it :D
For being such an oldschool player it amazes me how frequently Tasteless is wrong on BW history.
Nah, he is just not as stuck on little details as most super nerds (Artosis). I mean it doesn't really matter who invented the muta micro, everyone remembers July's mutas.
On January 18 2011 19:46 TheCrow wrote: I don't care if Tasteless gets things wrong a lot of times. He just just such a easygoing guy, and he puts in in a good mood.
Agreed, and he's funny in a talks-a-lot-of-shit kinda way.
On January 18 2011 19:41 HwangjaeTerran wrote: Artosis didn't autocorrect Tasteless this time, well I think we all already now it was shark who did the inventing and July popularized it :D
For being such an oldschool player it amazes me how frequently Tasteless is wrong on BW history.
Nah, he is just not as stuck on little details as most super nerds (Artosis). I mean it doesn't really matter who invented the muta micro, everyone remembers July's mutas.
There has been multiple times when Tasteless completely flops when discussing BW history, like not knowing (or remembering) that Jaedong holds a golden mouse.
On January 18 2011 19:26 Dexx wrote: I gotta say that these code A games are quite poor compared to the games I saw this weekend of the European top SC2 scene at the Homestory Cup. The gap between Korea and the West is not that big, if there is one at all.
Yeah I think that too, aside for the real top players like MC, MVP, Nestea etc...
i agree when it comes to T and P.. but korean zergs are way better than european..
100% sure decemvre is better than most if not all the code A zergs.
100% sure he's not.
Agreed. At the very least Ret and July are way out of his league.
What a poor game. Terran macro is insanely lacking and July has one half of the map covered with saturated bases and still fails to kill an ultra late siege/thor/marine push. That's so bad.
Armor upgrades are almost pointless for terran. get 3/0 marines and 3/0 tanks, and no units get in range to attack before dying. Baneling is the only DPS unit, and they 2-shot regardless of armor :/
Wow, seems like terrans are stepping up their play. July got manhandled. Pretty interesting build. Mutas completly nullified when you have Thor with a turret.
If there WAS creep spread, the banelings/zerglings would've been so much more effective vs that marine micro all game. Lost 2 Broodlords needlessly, didnt have any Anti Air so lost too much Overlords to the vikings. Bit disappointing
I love July, but he simply isn't good enough for Code-S right now if this game is an indicator of his skill level. Worst creep-spread of any Zerg in GSL right now, fail baneling bomb, using banes on mech, not supporting his broodlords, attacking headlong into mass sieged tanks....
On January 18 2011 19:58 Fa1nT wrote: Armor upgrades are almost pointless for terran. get 3/0 marines and 3/0 tanks, and no units get in range to attack before dying. Baneling is the only DPS unit, and they 2-shot regardless of armor :/
Armor upgrades are actually amazing for Thors, but other than that I agree.
Fun game to watch. July probably needs better attack timing though. His units comes in waves. If you see Fruitdealer or IdrA attack everyonething comes at once from several angles. Zerglings first, then drops, then some air doesnt work.
On January 18 2011 19:56 legaton wrote: > July fail drops > July doesn't micro mutas > TL blame terran inbalance.
A disappointing game from July
At which point TL did blame terran imbalances?...
I'm ready to bet that at the end of the day, this will all come to a new discussion on terran imbalance (specially stimmed marines) instead of a discussion on the decision making, unit control and micro/macro of the players. Julyzerg just seems to care about his macro, getting a huge early economic lead, but everything else looks sloppy: no creep, poor muta micro, bad unit control, bad decision making.
Bleach is one of the rising terran, along with ST_Bomber, both are very good, code S material. Poor July who hit Jungle Bassin in game 2 after losing shakuras, this will be hard
On January 18 2011 19:56 legaton wrote: > July fail drops > July doesn't micro mutas > TL blame terran inbalance.
A disappointing game from July
At which point TL did blame terran imbalances?...
I'm ready to bet that at the end of the day, this will all come to a new discussion on terran imbalance (specially stimmed marines) instead of a discussion on the decision making, unit control and micro/macro of the players. Julyzerg just seems to care about his macro, getting a huge early economic lead, but everything else looks sloppy: no creep, poor muta micro, bad unit control, bad decision making.
This thread was without imbalance bullshit until someone claimed it would come. Which is just as bad as claming imbalance. Stop ruining tournament threads with imbalance issues. Lets just watch GSL and have fun
July was looking for a tech-switch to ultras, was floating a ton of resources and some supply when he had his broodlords out, but Byun moved out too quick and he had to throw up a ton of baneling/roaches. What are even 10 ultras going to do to that terran army though? Would hardly dent it.
Why not support the broodlords instead of sacrificing them.
On January 18 2011 19:56 legaton wrote: > July fail drops > July doesn't micro mutas > TL blame terran inbalance.
A disappointing game from July
At which point TL did blame terran imbalances?...
I'm ready to bet that at the end of the day, this will all come to a new discussion on terran imbalance (specially stimmed marines) instead of a discussion on the decision making, unit control and micro/macro of the players. Julyzerg just seems to care about his macro, getting a huge early economic lead, but everything else looks sloppy: no creep, poor muta micro, bad unit control, bad decision making.
You are way underestimating TL, no one will say that at this point, Tl is not a Bnet forum.
wow. july played terrible last game . So bad decision making. no creep spread. always attacking at the wrong point with the wrong unit combination. what's going on with him?? :/
July used his broodlords badly, he should have let them with his core army, helping a ground push, it messed so much the tanks...but he lost them all for nothing
On January 18 2011 20:07 Fa1nT wrote: Why was that a "botch"?
It's a measly 500 minerals of hellions, and easily killed 500+ minerals in zerglings.
I don't think it even did, and you are forgetting about the blue flame upgrade and the time he dedicated to that + the fact that it delayed his push by a lot.
6 blue flamed hellions died to.... zerglings, without killing any noticable number of them. That's like seeing Chuck Norris die. It's just not possible for that to happen. How can that happen? My head... my head.
On January 18 2011 20:07 Fa1nT wrote: Why was that a "botch"?
It's a measly 500 minerals of hellions, and easily killed 500+ minerals in zerglings.
I don't think he even did, and you are forgetting about the blue flame upgrade and the time he dedicated to that + the fact that it delayed his push by a lot.
Yeah, but he can make more later. blue flame hellions are amazing against JB 3rd bases thanks to the hallways.
It just seems like every time a terran uses hellions, unless they kill 50 workers and end the game instantly, the casters say "those hellions were terribad"
thats pretty cool. seems its going to force july to fight in that really tough narrow area btw the two middle expansions.really like the use of the barracks.
Jesus, July! Dont attack into the damn range of the siege tanks!. He should justb use the zerglings on the expo, which is out of the range of the tanks.
It's really hard to micro slings, blings and mutas together. I think it requires a significant amount of practice to perfect it. Like pros practicing their BW muta micro
wow. that's not the july we know and love . Even his muta control was bad Only his aggressive style reminded of the great past. Edit: the muta control was not only bad, it was terrible. Magic box who needs that etc. His understanding of the game seems really low :/
Someone needs to inform July both about the magic box and how to utilize banelings. I don't understand why the hell he insists on bombing Thors and tanks with his banelings.
Byun could have played better. Mech is great, but you really need more marines, especially on that map. So much surface area to defend... Still well played though, he deserved the win.
On January 18 2011 20:18 Giku wrote: What is he doing!? Those Banelings drops are just awful!!
Indeed. I think it would have been better if he dropped the banes in the main base and took out his production buildings with them than drop them over tanks regardless of how stupid I sound saying that.
That was really waste of gas to throw banes like that.
Those banelings drops where absolutely terrible :'( . Why would you drop banelings on siege tanks and thors ?No creep spread either and clumping his mutas against thors. I really don't get it :'(.
Well July did as well as he could. You cant just target marines with banelings drops because the thors will shoot the ovies down while youre trying to catch the marines so you cant target them. The drops july did were the only way to drop in that situation. Tanks will kill banes if they arent in ovies. zerglings are useless against that army composition other than counter attacks. Magic box wont matter against that many thors. Its just an army composition that a lot of terrans are beginning to use against zerg and no one has an answer. at least yet.
I still see a lot of people saying he should have dropped them on the marines. It's better to use banelings on thors then have them die in ovies chasing stimmed marines.
bad protoss turns into a solid, overgall good terran looks really like some races suit persons better than others he made the right decision, because his terran is SO much better than his shaby protoss was
That was a really interesting defensive play with the barracks walls covering the tanks. It seemed like it might have been a bit too passive though; without Julyzerg's missteps in muta v Thor and banelings v heavy mech it was looking pretty close even on Jungle.
Now here comes the highlight of the day. Two of the biggest War3 names, two of the biggest rivals and two team mates meet each other once again, but now in a different game on a high stake tournament. These guys know each other inside out so it will be really interesting to see how this turns out.
On January 18 2011 20:21 takingbackoj wrote: Well July did as well as he could. You cant just target marines with banelings drops because the thors will shoot the ovies down while youre trying to catch the marines so you cant target them. The drops july did were the only way to drop in that situation. Tanks will kill banes if they arent in ovies. zerglings are useless against that army composition other than counter attacks. Magic box wont matter against that many thors. Its just an army composition that a lot of terrans are beginning to use against zerg and no one has an answer. at least yet.
I still see a lot of people saying he should have dropped them on the marines. It's better to use banelings on thors then have them die in ovies chasing stimmed marines.
It's better not to have banelings in OLs attempting to drop them on anything. They are actually MORE useful rolling around on the ground soaking up what little damage they can take rather than being in OLs that are shot out of the sky. Heck, just sending 5 empty OLs over the battle would have been more useful than attempting ANY sort of drop.Those OL drops would have been better used on the natural mineral line rather than trying to take out T's army with them.
As for the T army composition, we've seen it handled quite well by players like Idra and Nestea, It appears to be a matter of getting the banes on marines, lings swarming around, and keeping mutas spread properly, obviously not the easiest thing to do in the thick of the battle, but it's been shown to work.
No infestor from the Zerg... he didn't try to hit the PF a single time with his mutas after baiting the Thors into coming back to defend the main... no bane drop on any mineral line...
Bleach also seemed to forget that he had blue flame hellions, and that those are great for harassing wide open expansions and defending chokes... no plan to ever take the easy 4th...
Burrow could have been nice for banes and to protect drones, considering blue flame hellions were out...
I hope not a single balance discussion will base anything on this game. Still entertaining though.
On January 18 2011 20:28 Pwere wrote: No infestor from the Zerg... he didn't try to hit the PF a single time with his mutas after baiting the Thors into coming back to defend the main... no bane drop on any mineral line...
Bleach also seemed to forget that he had blue flame hellions, and that those are great for harassing wide open expansions and defending chokes... no plan to ever take the easy 4th...
Burrow could have been nice for banes and to protect drones, considering blue flame hellions were out...
I hope not a single balance discussion will base anything on this game. Still entertaining though.
Its kind of hard to make Hellions when he is focusing on Thors and Siege Tanks all at once. =/
I think it would be better to unload lings than banelings on thors/tanks. A waste of ressources.
Anyway, I think all 8 players today are better than the worst 8 code S player. Nearly all at least =) Poor one who will face fruitdealer :/ But Byun is the favorite to win code A imo, over TOP.
I hate baneling busts, as Terran player. Not because they are really good...because they're fucking awful. Easily countered and puts Z so far behind when it fails.
On January 18 2011 20:38 Fa1nT wrote: Why isn't Lyn flying around the map killing banelings?
He isn't very good sadly. Moon either I think. Weakest players of the 8 imo.
Yeah like you'd know ~~ Talking about decisions is a clear mistake from an observer's point of view. Its much tougher once you're in the playing position yourself
On January 18 2011 20:38 Fa1nT wrote: Why isn't Lyn flying around the map killing banelings?
He isn't very good sadly. Moon either I think. Weakest players of the 8 imo.
Yeah like you'd know ~~ Talking about decisions is a clear mistake from an observer's point of view. Its much tougher once you're in the playing position yourself
Does that make the observations less relevant in any way? We can all see the huge disparity between what these two players are doing, the mistakes they are making, and the way a lot of Code S players play.
I think this is the final proof necessary that wc3 players micro is actually terrible. So this raises the question, if wc3 doesn't take micro and doesn't take macro, what does it take?
well Moon basically just lost cause he couldn't get a third... his fight micro was good, he won many combats which would've been lost with what July showed last game.
Damn, I'm at work and I can't look at the stream but I am enjoying your comment, please describe more! I was a huge Moon fan, because of his skill, I am now a huge moon fan, because of his awesome fail.
On January 18 2011 20:47 frequency wrote: Haha, those banelings just then weren't as terrible, since the game was pretty much over and the marines were only partially over the banelings.
Not sure why they're making such a huge deal about the PDD+auto turrets, they last for like 2 minutes :/
It's more the energy.. It's just sloppy and unnecessary.
On January 18 2011 20:48 goldenwitch wrote: I think this is the final proof necessary that wc3 players micro is actually terrible. So this raises the question, if wc3 doesn't take micro and doesn't take macro, what does it take?
Planning micro probably, instead of Starcraft's speed micro.
Lol at people complaining about games today. They're actually more entertaining that many S code games. And about burrowed banelings it is hard to pay attention to them when you're being attacked by marines in your main.
On January 18 2011 20:48 goldenwitch wrote: I think this is the final proof necessary that wc3 players micro is actually terrible. So this raises the question, if wc3 doesn't take micro and doesn't take macro, what does it take?
I dunno if you are trolling, but wc3 is a much slower game. Also, i doubt he is sitting with his screen still watching marines run by banelings, if it is anything it is a multitasking/minimap awareness fail.
I guess it will take a while before we see the same epicness of competition between these two in SC2 than what they produced in War3. The matches were so intense and so extremely impressive that I think my lack of enthusiasm is due to being spoiled by their former awesomeness
On January 18 2011 20:48 goldenwitch wrote: I think this is the final proof necessary that wc3 players micro is actually terrible. So this raises the question, if wc3 doesn't take micro and doesn't take macro, what does it take?
Did you ever played wc3? It is SUPER micro intensive. Just a-walking around wont help you there.
On January 18 2011 20:38 Fa1nT wrote: Why isn't Lyn flying around the map killing banelings?
He isn't very good sadly. Moon either I think. Weakest players of the 8 imo.
Yeah like you'd know ~~ Talking about decisions is a clear mistake from an observer's point of view. Its much tougher once you're in the playing position yourself
Actually, it IS quite clear that these two aren't on the same level as the rest of the top 8, at the very least, they aren't even close to competing for S-class yet.
It's actually a common problem among the WC3 players who've switched over to SC2. Just look at how the Prime clan has had worse and worse results since GSL1, where they put in a solid show. They're only truly S-calibre player is MarineKing, who was an SC1 pro, the rest of their clan are carry-overs from WC3. Will they improve and get better? No doubt, but right now, they are so far behind the learning curve that I have a hard time believing that the Prime members (other than MarineKing) will be S for much longer, or that the FOX players will ever compete for S class.
On January 18 2011 20:48 goldenwitch wrote: I think this is the final proof necessary that wc3 players micro is actually terrible. So this raises the question, if wc3 doesn't take micro and doesn't take macro, what does it take?
Different games. Dont talk about things you dont know. Thank you
@Nemireck I agree. I just want some people to tag down on accusations. Its easy for us to sit here and point out mistakes but if you dont understand how tough it is once you're in the position the accussations are unwarranted imo
On January 18 2011 20:48 goldenwitch wrote: I think this is the final proof necessary that wc3 players micro is actually terrible. So this raises the question, if wc3 doesn't take micro and doesn't take macro, what does it take?
FoxLyn is solid. Scouting + reacting. Moon is playing worse every time I see him play. I don't know but I think he might have problems with macro-ing without looking at his base.
I don't understand why he misses those blings. Why his drone count is so low..
yeah. just because these two are terrible doesn't mean that war3 is an easy game, it just means they don't really understand this the same way the broodwar players do.
On January 18 2011 20:55 The KY wrote: Take Day[9]'s advice Lyn...if your opponent is doing something crazy or weird, 9 times out of 10 you can just go fucking kill him.
lyn is better, but still only good compared to moon.. he threw away a ton of stuff last game that he really shouldn't have lost...
WOW what a beastly wc3 micro, loading and dropping a marine! I've never seen this before, amazing! I mean...he loaded and dropped a marine, SEVERAL times!
On January 18 2011 20:57 Nemireck wrote: Moon doesn't seem to grasp how important economic damage is... he just wasted 3 banelings on a thor when I'm sure they could have killed more SCVs.
there were scvs repairing the thor, he wanted to blast them, but lyn pulled them away
he spreads those bane bombs too far apart. its funny too because he always has these great moments to explode a bunch of stuff and always screws it up lol.
Watching moon is painful, has he even played a thousand games of sc2 yet? It feels like he is half-heartedly playing the game and somehow expecting to win. Like how many times would you have to place your banelings before you realize that you need to burrow them in pairs? Unless moon is a slow learner, which I highly doubt, it shouldn't take more then 3 or 4 attempts. So that leaves only one alternative, moon isn't practicing like he should be. Underestimating sc2 is a quick way to lose.
War 3 micro, sub-war 3 macro. And bizarre decision making. I loved Moon back in WC3, but it's really painful for me to watch him play SC2. He really needs to focus on SC2 more. His micro is still pretty slick, but his decisions are subpar.
On January 18 2011 20:59 Dente wrote: WOW what a beastly wc3 micro, loading and dropping a marine! I've never seen this before, amazing! I mean...he loaded and dropped a marine, SEVERAL times!
Not to mention that he probably missed a lot of macro time doing that.
On January 18 2011 21:04 goldenwitch wrote: How can anyone say their micro is good when they are losing mutalisks left and right and just letting their marines suicide?
Their micro in wc3 was awesome now it isnt that great. Its probably like Julys Muta control it was awesome in BW but in the last game it was pretty horrible
Tastetosis was way too hard on Moon there. Going all in is perfectly reasonable on Jungle Basin/Close Position LT. In fact, it was probably his best chance.
On January 18 2011 21:02 Lann555 wrote: Honestly, I don't see either of these guys doing too much if they make it to code S. Does Lyn still play war3 as well?
They both declined their invites for one of the bigger War3 tournaments as of late, ECL Global. So I dont know actually. If they're 100 % focused on SC2 then im not impressed. Although something tells me they aren't. Maybe they're just taking breaks and arent practicing that much anymore. They've both earned legendary status from their quite long Wc3 careers so they really dont have to prove anything.
Tonights games most interesting event was the barracks wall by Byun. Everything else was basically terrans doing the most standard things ever, heavy boring two/three-basing and their opponents completely dying in the most obvious ways. Moon did contribute with his all-ins but the maps/positions make it excusable.
Does anyone else feel that these WC3 pros might be overvaluing micro over macro? I'm seeing all sorts of cute little plays that can't allow for good macro.
Probably mentioned but how do the up/down matches work, as in, don't the Top 8 in Code A get to compete for Code S spots regardless of who actually wins Code A?
They have amazing micro in wc3 but wc3 and sc2 are different games. What we were hoping was that they'd be able to carry that skill over easily but that may not be the case.
As sad as it is to see the final 4 of Code A all being one race (at least the 8 for the up and down matches was a decent mix), the terrans all outplayed their opponents today.
Reasonably entertaining, TOP and Byun impressed me most, and I think Banbans has some good potential if he can cure some of his decision making.
On January 18 2011 21:02 Lann555 wrote: Honestly, I don't see either of these guys doing too much if they make it to code S. Does Lyn still play war3 as well?
They both declined their invites for one of the bigger War3 tournaments as of late, ECL Global. So I dont know actually. If they're 100 % focused on SC2 then im not impressed
Hmm..I suggest they squeeze out whatever cash is still left in War3 as they are not going to score big in SC2 unless they increase significantly. I have no idea what happened to Moon as his play was pure genius in War3. I remember when I first watched his NE replays and was just shocked at how good he was
On January 18 2011 20:48 goldenwitch wrote: I think this is the final proof necessary that wc3 players micro is actually terrible. So this raises the question, if wc3 doesn't take micro and doesn't take macro, what does it take?
On January 18 2011 20:48 goldenwitch wrote: I think this is the final proof necessary that wc3 players micro is actually terrible. So this raises the question, if wc3 doesn't take micro and doesn't take macro, what does it take?
On January 18 2011 21:01 goldenwitch wrote: Watching moon is painful, has he even played a thousand games of sc2 yet? It feels like he is half-heartedly playing the game and somehow expecting to win. Like how many times would you have to place your banelings before you realize that you need to burrow them in pairs? Unless moon is a slow learner, which I highly doubt, it shouldn't take more then 3 or 4 attempts. So that leaves only one alternative, moon isn't practicing like he should be. Underestimating sc2 is a quick way to lose.
half heartedly? i don't think so, moon isn't the type to "underestimate" sc2. don't forget that moon had to play the first 2 games on heavily terran favoured maps JB and LT, and had close spawns LT. don't blame him for trying something out of the ordinary when he scouts close spawn LT, it's disgustingly hard for zerg to win close spawns LT.
On January 18 2011 20:48 goldenwitch wrote: I think this is the final proof necessary that wc3 players micro is actually terrible. So this raises the question, if wc3 doesn't take micro and doesn't take macro, what does it take?
On January 18 2011 21:01 goldenwitch wrote: Watching moon is painful, has he even played a thousand games of sc2 yet? It feels like he is half-heartedly playing the game and somehow expecting to win. Like how many times would you have to place your banelings before you realize that you need to burrow them in pairs? Unless moon is a slow learner, which I highly doubt, it shouldn't take more then 3 or 4 attempts. So that leaves only one alternative, moon isn't practicing like he should be. Underestimating sc2 is a quick way to lose.
half heartedly? i don't think so, moon isn't the type to "underestimate" sc2. don't forget that moon had to play the first 2 games on heavily terran favoured maps JB and LT, and had close spawns LT. don't blame him for trying something out of the ordinary when he scouts close spawn LT, it's disgustingly hard for zerg to win close spawns LT.
Funny how every existing map in a map pool becomes (heavily) terran favoured, just because terrans won some games.
On January 18 2011 21:01 goldenwitch wrote: Watching moon is painful, has he even played a thousand games of sc2 yet? It feels like he is half-heartedly playing the game and somehow expecting to win. Like how many times would you have to place your banelings before you realize that you need to burrow them in pairs? Unless moon is a slow learner, which I highly doubt, it shouldn't take more then 3 or 4 attempts. So that leaves only one alternative, moon isn't practicing like he should be. Underestimating sc2 is a quick way to lose.
half heartedly? i don't think so, moon isn't the type to "underestimate" sc2. don't forget that moon had to play the first 2 games on heavily terran favoured maps JB and LT, and had close spawns LT. don't blame him for trying something out of the ordinary when he scouts close spawn LT, it's disgustingly hard for zerg to win close spawns LT.
Funny how every existing map in a map pool becomes (heavily) terran favoured, just because terrans won some games.
You are on a forum where people get banned for talking about race balance, so maps are the next best choice for them :/
Lyn Vs Moon was soo sloppy and poor play from both sides, I think i'll just stick to code S matches from now on. Lyn even said he didnt really practice so its like, if they dont care about it, neither should I.
On January 18 2011 21:01 goldenwitch wrote: Watching moon is painful, has he even played a thousand games of sc2 yet? It feels like he is half-heartedly playing the game and somehow expecting to win. Like how many times would you have to place your banelings before you realize that you need to burrow them in pairs? Unless moon is a slow learner, which I highly doubt, it shouldn't take more then 3 or 4 attempts. So that leaves only one alternative, moon isn't practicing like he should be. Underestimating sc2 is a quick way to lose.
half heartedly? i don't think so, moon isn't the type to "underestimate" sc2. don't forget that moon had to play the first 2 games on heavily terran favoured maps JB and LT, and had close spawns LT. don't blame him for trying something out of the ordinary when he scouts close spawn LT, it's disgustingly hard for zerg to win close spawns LT.
Funny how every existing map in a map pool becomes (heavily) terran favoured, just because terrans won some games.
sounds like Terran talk to me }:-(>
seriously though, close by ground on LT is undoubtedly the worst scenario (on LT) for zvt, especially when the T favors mech -_-.
On January 18 2011 21:01 goldenwitch wrote: Watching moon is painful, has he even played a thousand games of sc2 yet? It feels like he is half-heartedly playing the game and somehow expecting to win. Like how many times would you have to place your banelings before you realize that you need to burrow them in pairs? Unless moon is a slow learner, which I highly doubt, it shouldn't take more then 3 or 4 attempts. So that leaves only one alternative, moon isn't practicing like he should be. Underestimating sc2 is a quick way to lose.
half heartedly? i don't think so, moon isn't the type to "underestimate" sc2. don't forget that moon had to play the first 2 games on heavily terran favoured maps JB and LT, and had close spawns LT. don't blame him for trying something out of the ordinary when he scouts close spawn LT, it's disgustingly hard for zerg to win close spawns LT.
Funny how every existing map in a map pool becomes (heavily) terran favoured, just because terrans won some games.
Did he mention "every existing map in a map pool"? No he only mentioned two. I don't think anyone would seriously argue that these two maps aren't terran-favored.
Damn liquibet said bleach was P otherwise I would have voted for him and gone 4 for 4 (thank you T for making it sooo easy to decide whos going to win).
Everyone hating on Moon & Lyn... they're teammates, and they're already top 8. So they get to challenge Code-S players. Why would they show their full strength when they play each other? Maybe they don't care about being top 2 and getting to pick their groups. Maybe they're that confident. Sure, it's a bad show for the fans, but has anyone considered this?
On January 18 2011 21:40 greenjohn wrote: Everyone hating on Moon & Lyn... they're teammates, and they're already top 8. So they get to challenge Code-S players. Why would they show their full strength when they play each other? Maybe they don't care about being top 2 and getting to pick their groups. Maybe they're that confident. Sure, it's a bad show for the fans, but has anyone considered this?
On January 18 2011 21:40 greenjohn wrote: Everyone hating on Moon & Lyn... they're teammates, and they're already top 8. So they get to challenge Code-S players. Why would they show their full strength when they play each other? Maybe they don't care about being top 2 and getting to pick their groups. Maybe they're that confident. Sure, it's a bad show for the fans, but has anyone considered this?
They were showing extreme flaws in their play long before they made it to the round of 8. How a professional SC2 player misses proper baneling mine detonation three times in three games is beyond me.
On January 18 2011 21:40 greenjohn wrote: Everyone hating on Moon & Lyn... they're teammates, and they're already top 8. So they get to challenge Code-S players. Why would they show their full strength when they play each other? Maybe they don't care about being top 2 and getting to pick their groups. Maybe they're that confident. Sure, it's a bad show for the fans, but has anyone considered this?
It's not worth considering.
There's money on the line, and the difference between picking an opponent like SanZenith or having to face someone like Fruitdealer or Maka in the up and down matches is huge. I don't see anyway you'd do anything other than try your best in those situations.
On January 18 2011 21:40 greenjohn wrote: Everyone hating on Moon & Lyn... they're teammates, and they're already top 8. So they get to challenge Code-S players. Why would they show their full strength when they play each other? Maybe they don't care about being top 2 and getting to pick their groups. Maybe they're that confident. Sure, it's a bad show for the fans, but has anyone considered this?
Because whoever won that match gets money? =|
Are you aware of how much money Moon gets with his contract with FOX? Well over 500k.
On January 18 2011 21:40 greenjohn wrote: Everyone hating on Moon & Lyn... they're teammates, and they're already top 8. So they get to challenge Code-S players. Why would they show their full strength when they play each other? Maybe they don't care about being top 2 and getting to pick their groups. Maybe they're that confident. Sure, it's a bad show for the fans, but has anyone considered this?
this reeks of wishful thinking from a naive fan
first, every round they get through massively improves their odds at making code s, which is the one and only reason these two are playing code a
second, these are professional gamers, friends or no friends/teammates, they will never drop a match or underperform since this is about their careers, if anything, the opposite. same as with any other sportsmen that are friends and/or practice partners
third, moon at least was very lacking in confidence in interviews, so the remote possibility of him risking underperforming is blown out the window
they just played bad. but they're improving visibly, we'll have to wait and see how they develop over time, and that will depend mainly on how much time they dtake out of their sc2 time to own in war3. and that's a tough one, since sc2 is the future pretty much, while war3 is still a good source of money
A dat if only Code A matches, and non of them where even good. Bit impressed by Byun but aside from that the rest are very average. Lets hope the next round of Code A picks up a bit
About the argument of money: they have won so much money, a few million korean WON's more or less won't make a difference.
Regarding people who brought the argument of improving one's chances whether you meet SanZenith or Maka/FruitDealer: you are actually quite right, no one could be confident enough to say that this does not make a meaningful difference, I have to admit.
To anatem: your second point seems very true from someone who has no experience following them, and seems logical, but it is in fact wrong. Lyn has, on many occasions, performed poorly in order to let someone else pass/fail a qualification, or if he has not got enough on the line. So that's wrong.
But let's wait and see how they do in their future matches.
On January 18 2011 22:02 greenjohn wrote: About the argument of money: they have won so much money, a few million korean WON's more or less won't make a difference.
Let's hope they are just confused about the way they are supposed to be playing SC2 and it's magnified by feelings of accomplishing much in W3... ...and they are not simply burnt out.
Regarding people who brought the argument of improving one's chances whether you meet SanZenith or Maka/FruitDealer: you are actually quite right, no one could be confident enough to say that this does not make a meaningful difference, I have to admit.
To anatem: your second point seems very true from someone who has no experience following them, and seems logical, but it is in fact wrong. Lyn has, on many occasions, performed poorly in order to let someone else pass/fail a qualification, or if he has not got enough on the line. So that's wrong.
But let's wait and see how they do in their future matches.
Uh, sorry I've never followed W3 scene much but can you (or someone else) give any sources about sentence in bold?
On January 18 2011 21:40 greenjohn wrote: Everyone hating on Moon & Lyn... they're teammates, and they're already top 8. So they get to challenge Code-S players. Why would they show their full strength when they play each other? Maybe they don't care about being top 2 and getting to pick their groups. Maybe they're that confident. Sure, it's a bad show for the fans, but has anyone considered this?
Because whoever won that match gets money? =|
Are you aware of how much money Moon gets with his contract with FOX? Well over 500k.
A little bit more money doesn't hurt haha
No but seriously I doubt Moon would need more money as he's probably a millionaire by now. a 3 year contract in which he earns more than 500k and with all those 1st place achievements during the years and salary he gets for all those time I would say yes money is the least of his problems.
Why is it a suprise that former BW players have transitioned much better than former TFT players to SC2?
There is no need to even explain why that is the case, if you ever played BW you would know.
Give Lyn and Moon time, they need longer time to readjust and re learn a whole new game.
Look how medicore Nestea (a former BW pro) was a few GSL seasons back, and now he is the King of Zerg and he only had to go from BW->SC2.
If Flash and Jaedong switched suddenly to Warcraft 3 they would suck pretty bad, and would need several months if not a whole year to truly show their talent. Same goes for any SC2 pro aswell.
On January 18 2011 22:02 greenjohn wrote: About the argument of money: they have won so much money, a few million korean WON's more or less won't make a difference.
Regarding people who brought the argument of improving one's chances whether you meet SanZenith or Maka/FruitDealer: you are actually quite right, no one could be confident enough to say that this does not make a meaningful difference, I have to admit.
To anatem: your second point seems very true from someone who has no experience following them, and seems logical, but it is in fact wrong. Lyn has, on many occasions, performed poorly in order to let someone else pass/fail a qualification, or if he has not got enough on the line. So that's wrong.
But let's wait and see how they do in their future matches.
followed wc3 for 6 years, all i have to say is blasphemy
On January 18 2011 22:02 greenjohn wrote: About the argument of money: they have won so much money, a few million korean WON's more or less won't make a difference.
Let's hope they are just confused about the way they are supposed to be playing SC2 and it's magnified by feelings of accomplishing much in W3... ...and they are not simply burnt out.
Regarding people who brought the argument of improving one's chances whether you meet SanZenith or Maka/FruitDealer: you are actually quite right, no one could be confident enough to say that this does not make a meaningful difference, I have to admit.
To anatem: your second point seems very true from someone who has no experience following them, and seems logical, but it is in fact wrong. Lyn has, on many occasions, performed poorly in order to let someone else pass/fail a qualification, or if he has not got enough on the line. So that's wrong.
But let's wait and see how they do in their future matches.
Uh, sorry I've never followed W3 scene much but can you (or someone else) give any sources about sentence in bold?
I don't know if this is inappropriate but If someone could PM me a link to restream VOD especially of the Moon vs Lyn game I'd be eternally grateful. I have GOM ticket but have since GSL4 been unable to watch VODs or HQ stream due to some gomplayer error.
Thanks in advance and again, I apologize if this is wrong.
Of all the players left, I feel only TOP and Byun truly deserve code s status. The rest aren't as convincing, but are surely good enough to take down the code s scrubs like sanzenith and anypro.
On January 18 2011 22:23 Longshank wrote: I don't know if this is inappropriate but If someone could PM me a link to restream VOD especially of the Moon vs Lyn game I'd be eternally grateful. I have GOM ticket but have since GSL4 been unable to watch VODs or HQ stream due to some gomplayer error.
Thanks in advance and again, I apologize if this is wrong.
Only T in the first 4... T is dominating again the scene, with some P exceptions like (MC, White-ra). Hope this will change in the near future. In other point of view all of them 2-0 so they deserve it. GL for TOP to win all.
On January 18 2011 22:23 Longshank wrote: I don't know if this is inappropriate but If someone could PM me a link to restream VOD especially of the Moon vs Lyn game I'd be eternally grateful. I have GOM ticket but have since GSL4 been unable to watch VODs or HQ stream due to some gomplayer error.
Thanks in advance and again, I apologize if this is wrong.
Do you really need the gomplayer for the vods? Otherwise try reinstalling with the latest version.
On January 18 2011 22:23 Longshank wrote: I don't know if this is inappropriate but If someone could PM me a link to restream VOD especially of the Moon vs Lyn game I'd be eternally grateful. I have GOM ticket but have since GSL4 been unable to watch VODs or HQ stream due to some gomplayer error.
Thanks in advance and again, I apologize if this is wrong.
Do you really need the gomplayer for the vods? Otherwise try reinstalling with the latest version.
Yeah I had a similar problem between GSLs 3 and 4. Reinstalling the player may well fix this, did so for me.
Well to be honest...could anyone even picture ANY of these players playing Code S next season? I mean at best, some will be marginally better in competition than SansZenith and Anypro (and LegalMind) - those are probably the most at risk of getting knocked out by any of these players.
Only TOP seems to be at all worthy of competing in Code S, as much as I love July (complete underperformance).
On January 19 2011 00:04 traca wrote: mc exeption cant be counted in race balance the guy is the only player in current sc2 scene who accomplished good result in sc:bw late scene
On January 18 2011 23:58 PartyBiscuit wrote: Well to be honest...could anyone even picture ANY of these players playing Code S next season? I mean at best, some will be marginally better in competition than SansZenith and Anypro (and LegalMind) - those are probably the most at risk of getting knocked out by any of these players.
Only TOP seems to be at all worthy of competing in Code S, as much as I love July (complete underperformance).
It's time for some new Code A blood
Well, IMHO I can actually see these players in Code S, though no further than the Ro32. I have to agree, though, that all the Code S games from the last week are on a completely different level than these Code A games.
On another note, I'm a bit worried now that Jinro is going to knock out IdrA and MVP is going to knock out NesTea. If that happens every other game for the rest of the GSL is going to be TvT. I mean, I don't really mind watching TvT normally, but 6 of the last 8 matchups as TvT?
On January 18 2011 22:23 Longshank wrote: I don't know if this is inappropriate but If someone could PM me a link to restream VOD especially of the Moon vs Lyn game I'd be eternally grateful. I have GOM ticket but have since GSL4 been unable to watch VODs or HQ stream due to some gomplayer error.
Thanks in advance and again, I apologize if this is wrong.
Do you really need the gomplayer for the vods? Otherwise try reinstalling with the latest version.
Yeah I had a similar problem between GSLs 3 and 4. Reinstalling the player may well fix this, did so for me.
all games are pretty...bad tbh =_= is like they redo whatever happened in gsl1/2 r64 again...tonnes of mistake everywhere (look how artosis get shocked lol) from both players D: only TOP is the real code s worthy player.
i was thinking gomtv shouldnt even cast code A lol
On January 18 2011 23:58 PartyBiscuit wrote: Well to be honest...could anyone even picture ANY of these players playing Code S next season? I mean at best, some will be marginally better in competition than SansZenith and Anypro (and LegalMind) - those are probably the most at risk of getting knocked out by any of these players.
Only TOP seems to be at all worthy of competing in Code S, as much as I love July (complete underperformance).
It's time for some new Code A blood
TOP & Byun definitely have a shot. TOP has looked really good so far, while Byun seems very solid too. I'd imagine they both might pose a threat in the r32 next time if they make it in.
July is July, so I think we write him off at our peril. He's definitely capable of producing the kind of performances required, and he had pretty much breezed through till this round. Might just have been a bad day for whatever reason.
I wouldn't hold out much hope for Lyn, Moon, or Banbans, though the latter has the potential if he doesn't make stupid and costly decisions.
SC & Cezanne are probably borderline, Cezanne's early defence didn't inspire a lot of confidence today but he's still a good player, and conversely SC looked pretty good but was always playing from way ahead.
There's definitely about 3-4 current Code S players I think the top Code A competitors are better than.
Next Code A season should be much better, looking forward to seeing some new players getting in =)
On January 19 2011 00:04 traca wrote: mc exeption cant be counted in race balance the guy is the only player in current sc2 scene who accomplished good result in sc:bw late scene
um no. MVP was better than MC.
I think his point of MC being an exception to the norm is still valid, however. I'm not interested in talking about the B word, but I'd really like to see more very strong Protoss players in the GSL just to get some more variety in the matchups.
On January 19 2011 00:21 BurningSera wrote: all games are pretty...bad tbh =_= is like they redo whatever happened in gsl1/2 r64 again...tonnes of mistake everywhere (look how artosis get shocked lol) from both players D: only TOP is the real code s worthy player.
i was thinking gomtv shouldnt even cast code A lol
If given the option between gom casting more games and casting less games for the same price and within the same time schedule, why would you ever choose less? You always have the option of just not watching....
On January 18 2011 21:07 PartyBiscuit wrote: Probably mentioned but how do the up/down matches work, as in, don't the Top 8 in Code A get to compete for Code S spots regardless of who actually wins Code A?
From op ( :p ) Code A quarter finals starts and end today. All those players are already garanteed an up and down game. They now fight for more money, and the ability to choose their Code S opponents for the 2 finalists.
Anyway, they will encounter (in no order) (I bolded the weak ones, in my opinion) : - polt - maka - fruitdealer - jookto - hongun - thewind - kyrix - rain - leenock - anypro - inca - sanzenith - legalmind - nexliveforever - ensnare - check
Some I didn't bolded but have doubts, like check, jookto, who can be good and bad depending of the weather and wind speed.
Not a single Zerg player in code A even though they were all very good (July , moon , cezanne ). Terran has very good options right now against Zerg , and i think today that seemed very obvious .
I always played terran and switched race to Zerg in a week or so , its a great race i love playing it , much more than terran , the game seems pretty balanced but i think something is missing in zerg . From the games i watched today , it looked like Zerg had no options to combat the powerfull Marine , tank , thor , medivac ,turret+bunker push. banelings and zerglings cant get into siege range and mutas cant go to close to thors+turrets+ marines.. The only option seemed to be broodlords or ultras , at least that is how i´m winning games now , but terran can always do powerfull drops or even use banshee to cause damage in the economy, zerg has the mutas to do that , but terrans can defend pretty easilly nowadays against that , i finnaly understand Zerg players fears and matchup problems , i just hope somebody discovers another way to beat this terran pushes because they seem pretty unbeatable until hive tech .
On January 19 2011 00:40 tapk69 wrote: Not a single Zerg player in code S even though they were all very good. Terran has very good options right now against Zerg , and i think today that seemed very obvious . I always played terran and switched race to Zerg in a week or so , its a great race i love playing it , much more than terran , the game seems pretty balanced but i think something is missing in zerg . From the games i watched today , it looked like Zerg had no options to combat the powerfull Marine , tank , thor , medivac ,turret+bunker push. banelings and zerglings cant get into siege range and mutas cant go to close to thors+turrets+ marines.. The only option seemed to be broodlords or ultras , at least that is how i´m winning games now , but terran can always do powerfull drops or even use banshee to cause damage in the economy, zerg has the mutas to do that , but terrans can defend pretty easilly nowadays against that , i finnaly understand Zerg players fears and matchup problems , i just hope somebody discovers another way to beat this terran pushes because they seem pretty unbeatable until hive tech .
No matter how you look at it your first sentence is so wrong. I stopped reading after that.
All players in Code A from today are in the up and down matches. The only difference is that the top2 of code A can choose who they play against. The rest probably are playing groups depending on where they finished. It would be safe to assume to say that 3rd and 4th get to play "easier" opponents than 5th-8th place finishers (the losers of today) else it would be pointless to actually play today except for the top2.
Edit: As above has stated There are going to be a total of 24 players making out for 16 code S spots for next code S season.
Out of 24 players the race distributions are: - 9 - 9 - 6
Seems pretty balanced to me (I'm a Protoss I'm not complaining about this ).
On January 19 2011 00:54 Arcanne wrote: Lol the top 2 in Code A get to choose their opponents for up and downs? Omg this is like reality show drama..
Imagine that there are players like MakaPrime.WE and TSL_Fruitdealer etc in the up and down matches. Most of code A don't want to face these players. I'm damn sure that the top 2 are going to be happy that they can choose their opponents.
On January 19 2011 00:40 tapk69 wrote: Not a single Zerg player in code S even though they were all very good. Terran has very good options right now against Zerg , and i think today that seemed very obvious . I always played terran and switched race to Zerg in a week or so , its a great race i love playing it , much more than terran , the game seems pretty balanced but i think something is missing in zerg . From the games i watched today , it looked like Zerg had no options to combat the powerfull Marine , tank , thor , medivac ,turret+bunker push. banelings and zerglings cant get into siege range and mutas cant go to close to thors+turrets+ marines.. The only option seemed to be broodlords or ultras , at least that is how i´m winning games now , but terran can always do powerfull drops or even use banshee to cause damage in the economy, zerg has the mutas to do that , but terrans can defend pretty easilly nowadays against that , i finnaly understand Zerg players fears and matchup problems , i just hope somebody discovers another way to beat this terran pushes because they seem pretty unbeatable until hive tech .
No matter how you look at it your first sentence is so wrong. I stopped reading after that.
All players in Code A from today are in the up and down matches. The only difference is that the top2 of code A can choose who they play against. The rest probably are playing groups depending on where they finished. It would be safe to assume to say that 3rd and 4th get to play "easier" opponents than 5th-8th place finishers (the losers of today) else it would be pointless to actually play today except for the top2.
Edit: As above has stated There are going to be a total of 24 players making out for 16 code S spots for next code S season.
Out of 24 players the race distributions are: - 9 - 9 - 6
Seems pretty balanced to me (I'm a Protoss I'm not complaining about this ).
Actually, 3rd to 8th place finishers are given their opponents randomly, so as you say it is pointless to play past the top 8 except for the top 2, assuming that playing for "more money" is pointless.
On January 19 2011 00:54 Arcanne wrote: Lol the top 2 in Code A get to choose their opponents for up and downs? Omg this is like reality show drama..
Imagine that there are players like MakaPrime.WE and TSL_Fruitdealer etc in the up and down matches. Most of code A don't want to face these players. I'm damn sure that the top 2 are going to be happy that they can choose their opponents.
If TOP finishes in the top 2 he actually said in one of his interviews that he wants to choose Fruitdealer. Is that baller or what? Of course, he does have a second chance if his first game doesn't go so well...
On January 19 2011 00:54 Arcanne wrote: Lol the top 2 in Code A get to choose their opponents for up and downs? Omg this is like reality show drama..
Imagine that there are players like MakaPrime.WE and TSL_Fruitdealer etc in the up and down matches. Most of code A don't want to face these players. I'm damn sure that the top 2 are going to be happy that they can choose their opponents.
If TOP finishes in the top 2 he actually said in one of his interviews that he wants to choose Fruitdealer. Is that baller or what? Of course, he does have a second chance if his first game doesn't go so well...
Fruitdealer not in the greatest shape atm, so it's not the worst choice.
On January 19 2011 00:40 tapk69 wrote: Not a single Zerg player in code S even though they were all very good. Terran has very good options right now against Zerg , and i think today that seemed very obvious . I always played terran and switched race to Zerg in a week or so , its a great race i love playing it , much more than terran , the game seems pretty balanced but i think something is missing in zerg . From the games i watched today , it looked like Zerg had no options to combat the powerfull Marine , tank , thor , medivac ,turret+bunker push. banelings and zerglings cant get into siege range and mutas cant go to close to thors+turrets+ marines.. The only option seemed to be broodlords or ultras , at least that is how i´m winning games now , but terran can always do powerfull drops or even use banshee to cause damage in the economy, zerg has the mutas to do that , but terrans can defend pretty easilly nowadays against that , i finnaly understand Zerg players fears and matchup problems , i just hope somebody discovers another way to beat this terran pushes because they seem pretty unbeatable until hive tech .
No matter how you look at it your first sentence is so wrong. I stopped reading after that.
All players in Code A from today are in the up and down matches. The only difference is that the top2 of code A can choose who they play against. The rest probably are playing groups depending on where they finished. It would be safe to assume to say that 3rd and 4th get to play "easier" opponents than 5th-8th place finishers (the losers of today) else it would be pointless to actually play today except for the top2.
Edit: As above has stated There are going to be a total of 24 players making out for 16 code S spots for next code S season.
Out of 24 players the race distributions are: - 9 - 9 - 6
Seems pretty balanced to me (I'm a Protoss I'm not complaining about this ).
Actually, 3rd to 8th place finishers are given their opponents randomly, so as you say it is pointless to play past the top 8 except for the top 2, assuming that playing for "more money" is pointless.
I forgot about money but it's not so much at all for code A.
On January 19 2011 00:54 Arcanne wrote: Lol the top 2 in Code A get to choose their opponents for up and downs? Omg this is like reality show drama..
Imagine that there are players like MakaPrime.WE and TSL_Fruitdealer etc in the up and down matches. Most of code A don't want to face these players. I'm damn sure that the top 2 are going to be happy that they can choose their opponents.
If TOP finishes in the top 2 he actually said in one of his interviews that he wants to choose Fruitdealer. Is that baller or what? Of course, he does have a second chance if his first game doesn't go so well...
Baller? Defitenely yes. Smart? no. He does have a second chance but to risk 1 bo3 against 2 bo3 for a spot in code S? Even if he wins from FruitDealer then FD still gets a 2nd chance so who's to say he'll get eliminated out of code S then if it isn't done by TOP?
On January 19 2011 00:40 tapk69 wrote: Not a single Zerg player in code S even though they were all very good. Terran has very good options right now against Zerg , and i think today that seemed very obvious . I always played terran and switched race to Zerg in a week or so , its a great race i love playing it , much more than terran , the game seems pretty balanced but i think something is missing in zerg . From the games i watched today , it looked like Zerg had no options to combat the powerfull Marine , tank , thor , medivac ,turret+bunker push. banelings and zerglings cant get into siege range and mutas cant go to close to thors+turrets+ marines.. The only option seemed to be broodlords or ultras , at least that is how i´m winning games now , but terran can always do powerfull drops or even use banshee to cause damage in the economy, zerg has the mutas to do that , but terrans can defend pretty easilly nowadays against that , i finnaly understand Zerg players fears and matchup problems , i just hope somebody discovers another way to beat this terran pushes because they seem pretty unbeatable until hive tech .
No matter how you look at it your first sentence is so wrong. I stopped reading after that.
All players in Code A from today are in the up and down matches. The only difference is that the top2 of code A can choose who they play against. The rest probably are playing groups depending on where they finished. It would be safe to assume to say that 3rd and 4th get to play "easier" opponents than 5th-8th place finishers (the losers of today) else it would be pointless to actually play today except for the top2.
Edit: As above has stated There are going to be a total of 24 players making out for 16 code S spots for next code S season.
Out of 24 players the race distributions are: - 9 - 9 - 6
Seems pretty balanced to me (I'm a Protoss I'm not complaining about this ).
Actually, 3rd to 8th place finishers are given their opponents randomly, so as you say it is pointless to play past the top 8 except for the top 2, assuming that playing for "more money" is pointless.
I forgot about money but it's not so much at all for code A.
On January 19 2011 00:54 Arcanne wrote: Lol the top 2 in Code A get to choose their opponents for up and downs? Omg this is like reality show drama..
Imagine that there are players like MakaPrime.WE and TSL_Fruitdealer etc in the up and down matches. Most of code A don't want to face these players. I'm damn sure that the top 2 are going to be happy that they can choose their opponents.
If TOP finishes in the top 2 he actually said in one of his interviews that he wants to choose Fruitdealer. Is that baller or what? Of course, he does have a second chance if his first game doesn't go so well...
Baller? Defitenely yes. Smart? no. He does have a second chance but to risk 1 bo3 against 2 bo3 for a spot in code S? Even if he wins from FruitDealer then FD still gets a 2nd chance so who's to say he'll get eliminated out of code S then if it isn't done by TOP?
Yeah, it's definitely not the smart choice. He really should pick the weakest opponent and his best matchup. It sounds like he's doing it more for revenge and to show to people that he can play at a high level...though I think he'd be best served by proving that in the next GSL. But who knows? If he gets top 2 maybe his teammates will reason with him.
That reminds me...are the top 2 players allowed to choose any of the bottom 8 players? Because that really screws with the system. The way it works right now the Code A players go up against the 3rd ranked Code S players. The losers of that round play against the 4th ranked Code S players. So if the top 2 players choose a 4th ranked code S player, does that mean they just play the 3rd ranked first?
On January 19 2011 00:40 tapk69 wrote: Not a single Zerg player in code S even though they were all very good. Terran has very good options right now against Zerg , and i think today that seemed very obvious . I always played terran and switched race to Zerg in a week or so , its a great race i love playing it , much more than terran , the game seems pretty balanced but i think something is missing in zerg . From the games i watched today , it looked like Zerg had no options to combat the powerfull Marine , tank , thor , medivac ,turret+bunker push. banelings and zerglings cant get into siege range and mutas cant go to close to thors+turrets+ marines.. The only option seemed to be broodlords or ultras , at least that is how i´m winning games now , but terran can always do powerfull drops or even use banshee to cause damage in the economy, zerg has the mutas to do that , but terrans can defend pretty easilly nowadays against that , i finnaly understand Zerg players fears and matchup problems , i just hope somebody discovers another way to beat this terran pushes because they seem pretty unbeatable until hive tech .
No matter how you look at it your first sentence is so wrong. I stopped reading after that.
All players in Code A from today are in the up and down matches. The only difference is that the top2 of code A can choose who they play against. The rest probably are playing groups depending on where they finished. It would be safe to assume to say that 3rd and 4th get to play "easier" opponents than 5th-8th place finishers (the losers of today) else it would be pointless to actually play today except for the top2.
Edit: As above has stated There are going to be a total of 24 players making out for 16 code S spots for next code S season.
Out of 24 players the race distributions are: - 9 - 9 - 6
Seems pretty balanced to me (I'm a Protoss I'm not complaining about this ).
Actually, 3rd to 8th place finishers are given their opponents randomly, so as you say it is pointless to play past the top 8 except for the top 2, assuming that playing for "more money" is pointless.
I forgot about money but it's not so much at all for code A.
On January 19 2011 01:04 Avalain wrote:
On January 19 2011 00:58 shannn wrote:
On January 19 2011 00:54 Arcanne wrote: Lol the top 2 in Code A get to choose their opponents for up and downs? Omg this is like reality show drama..
Imagine that there are players like MakaPrime.WE and TSL_Fruitdealer etc in the up and down matches. Most of code A don't want to face these players. I'm damn sure that the top 2 are going to be happy that they can choose their opponents.
If TOP finishes in the top 2 he actually said in one of his interviews that he wants to choose Fruitdealer. Is that baller or what? Of course, he does have a second chance if his first game doesn't go so well...
Baller? Defitenely yes. Smart? no. He does have a second chance but to risk 1 bo3 against 2 bo3 for a spot in code S? Even if he wins from FruitDealer then FD still gets a 2nd chance so who's to say he'll get eliminated out of code S then if it isn't done by TOP?
Yeah, it's definitely not the smart choice. He really should pick the weakest opponent and his best matchup. It sounds like he's doing it more for revenge and to show to people that he can play at a high level...though I think he'd be best served by proving that in the next GSL. But who knows? If he gets top 2 maybe his teammates will reason with him.
That reminds me...are the top 2 players allowed to choose any of the bottom 8 players? Because that really screws with the system. The way it works right now the Code A players go up against the 3rd ranked Code S players. The losers of that round play against the 4th ranked Code S players. So if the top 2 players choose a 4th ranked code S player, does that mean they just play the 3rd ranked first?
The top2 chooses a pair of players (i.e. the players in the same code s group). They will play the 3rd ranked first.
I wanted to say code A im sorry , i know they are in the Up / down matches .. But everybody always say code A sucks , and the best player just dropped (ST_july)... i think the code A matches ro16 and ro8 were pretty enjoyable! they are all good players , of course not as good as code S that is why they are separated.
On January 19 2011 01:29 Azzur wrote: The top2 chooses a pair of players (i.e. the players in the same code s group). They will play the 3rd ranked first.
Ah, ok. That makes sense. Thanks!
That's another reason why TOP shouldn't pick Fruitdealer. It makes it harder on his teammate, since oGsJukto is paired with Fruitdealer. Much better to leave that matchup for one of the weaker Code A players.
The way July lost and how badly he played was inexplicable. To not put down a single creep tumor in Set 1 was just mystifying. There is no way a professional gamer like July would fail at something so simple. He showed incredible ZvT in GSL 3, and to play so horribly this time?
I think July just sandbagged this match. He has already stated that he doesn't care about winning the Code A tournament. He has done enough to get into the Up and Down matches and probably doesn't want to reveal too much of his ZvT.
i think the biggest problem with code A is that most of the players are not comfortable under pressure and playing on a stage infront of hundreds of people - not to mention the thousand or so tuned into live stream.
psychology plays a huge part and is probably the whole difference between playing like a pro and making stupid careless errors like a platinum player on ladder.
I think end of the month is when a lot of the up/down matches will go on and qualifiers. There is a calendar somewhere on the GOM site which lays a lot of it out.
On January 18 2011 21:40 greenjohn wrote: Everyone hating on Moon & Lyn... they're teammates, and they're already top 8. So they get to challenge Code-S players. Why would they show their full strength when they play each other? Maybe they don't care about being top 2 and getting to pick their groups. Maybe they're that confident. Sure, it's a bad show for the fans, but has anyone considered this?
Because whoever won that match gets money? =|
Really, throwing games in code A past Ro16 makes sense, considering the money increase is negligible. The code A winner gets the same as a code S Ro32 loser. That's just silly.
The prize for winning code A should be enticing at least, say $10,000 us dollars. That's still way below code S prize, but high enough that code A guys will fight hard to get it. As it is now, you may as well say they get nothing for winning code A, so why would they fight hard?
Most likely why all the code A games kinda failed last night.
lol none can trust these recommended votes if a terran wins and he is not jinro (that was already said) cezanne v sc game #1 was awesomely good and it still received a shitload of nos =(
truly some dissappointing games, especially from the zerg players. Code A has been quite disappointing so far. Code S however has been epic. the only times Im enjoying code A games are when the players make really bad decisions/all ins and tastosis make fun of them.
Code A cant be more than the lower prizes in Code S, because players who know they can't beat the likes of Nestea but would still have an edge over Code A guys might just wanna stay in Code A. Now I know they wouldn't do this for something like 2k, but some might be tempted for 10k, like the post 3-4 posts above me suggested.
And having that much money for overcoming such low level players (for the most part) seems kinda stupid.
Anyways Moon I am disappoint Hope he was just playing that way because he was facing Lyn and he can show us better games in the up and down matches ^^
On January 18 2011 21:40 greenjohn wrote: Everyone hating on Moon & Lyn... they're teammates, and they're already top 8. So they get to challenge Code-S players. Why would they show their full strength when they play each other? Maybe they don't care about being top 2 and getting to pick their groups. Maybe they're that confident. Sure, it's a bad show for the fans, but has anyone considered this?
Because whoever won that match gets money? =|
Really, throwing games in code A past Ro16 makes sense, considering the money increase is negligible. The code A winner gets the same as a code S Ro32 loser. That's just silly.
The prize for winning code A should be enticing at least, say $10,000 us dollars. That's still way below code S prize, but high enough that code A guys will fight hard to get it. As it is now, you may as well say they get nothing for winning code A, so why would they fight hard?
Most likely why all the code A games kinda failed last night.
So everyone complains that Code A is soooo awful compared to most of Code S.
Then we suggest giving the winner of Code A as much money as for getting to like the semis of Code S? >__<
The incentive for winning Code A is a pretty big one really, picking your own matches is an absolutely giant advantage for the promotion/demotion series. If you win through that you double your money and get the big reward, Code S. The winner of Code A is likely to fit into that Ro32 loser bracket skillwise, particularly when things start to balance out.
I don't really have much of an issue with being part of Code S rewarding you as much as winning in the division below.
On January 19 2011 02:32 SergioCQH wrote: The way July lost and how badly he played was inexplicable. To not put down a single creep tumor in Set 1 was just mystifying. There is no way a professional gamer like July would fail at something so simple. He showed incredible ZvT in GSL 3, and to play so horribly this time?
I think July just sandbagged this match. He has already stated that he doesn't care about winning the Code A tournament. He has done enough to get into the Up and Down matches and probably doesn't want to reveal too much of his ZvT.
Yeah, I'm starting to think that as well. There were lots of points where I felt like he was throwing away units and playing around with banneling drops.
The night of 2:0s .. Really glad for TOP - i feel he has what it takes to make it into Code S; i really enjoy his play style.. That is a lot of terrans - certainly wasnt expecting July or Cezanne to go down honestly.. oh well; all we can hope for is some ridiculously innovative TvT strategies :D
On January 19 2011 03:17 FLuE wrote: I think end of the month is when a lot of the up/down matches will go on and qualifiers. There is a calendar somewhere on the GOM site which lays a lot of it out.
I checked the calendar, didn't see anything about it. A vs S is there but nothing about qual or "code B" if that's even a thing.
Just watched the vods. Tastosis are way too critical on Moon. It is tough to win against Terran on Jungle Basin and LT close and Moon was close to winning both games at one point. Lyn played solid and that 1-marine-medivac-micro was actually sick. I really enjoyed those games, don't know why they criticise the players all the time for stuff like preemptive auto turrets.
On January 19 2011 09:04 Awesomeness wrote: Just watched the vods. Tastosis are way too critical on Moon. It is tough to win against Terran on Jungle Basin and LT close and Moon was close to winning both games at one point. Lyn played solid and that 1-marine-medivac-micro was actually sick. I really enjoyed those games, don't know why they criticise the players all the time for stuff like preemptive auto turrets.
On January 19 2011 09:04 Awesomeness wrote: Just watched the vods. Tastosis are way too critical on Moon. It is tough to win against Terran on Jungle Basin and LT close and Moon was close to winning both games at one point. Lyn played solid and that 1-marine-medivac-micro was actually sick. I really enjoyed those games, don't know why they criticise the players all the time for stuff like preemptive auto turrets.
Moon was never close to winning either game. He repeatedly failed baneling maneuvers and slipped on his macro multiple times. They were critical, and deservedly so.
Maybe since everyone is qualified in the up and down so neither players wanted to reveal their true skill until they face the code S'ers.
July not laying a single creep tumor is extremely suspicious. It's almost as bad as terran not using mules or protoss not using chronoboost. It is the bread and butter basics of zerg.
Worst day of GSL ever. Watching terran win 8 games in a row is so lame. I think Zerg needs to come up with something other than ling bane muta vs terran. Every decent terran has had way too much practice against it.
On January 18 2011 21:40 greenjohn wrote: Everyone hating on Moon & Lyn... they're teammates, and they're already top 8. So they get to challenge Code-S players. Why would they show their full strength when they play each other? Maybe they don't care about being top 2 and getting to pick their groups. Maybe they're that confident. Sure, it's a bad show for the fans, but has anyone considered this?
Because whoever won that match gets money? =|
Really, throwing games in code A past Ro16 makes sense, considering the money increase is negligible. The code A winner gets the same as a code S Ro32 loser. That's just silly.
The prize for winning code A should be enticing at least, say $10,000 us dollars. That's still way below code S prize, but high enough that code A guys will fight hard to get it. As it is now, you may as well say they get nothing for winning code A, so why would they fight hard?
Most likely why all the code A games kinda failed last night.
If you made the Code A money like that, Code S players who couldn't make it to the finals would have a financial incentive to keep themselves in code A, winning by being a big fish in a small pond.
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Banbanssu < Metalopolis >
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