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On December 06 2010 19:36 Liquid`Ret wrote:
people who keep talking about 'hatch first' really don't have a clue.. 2 rax constant marines dominates pool first so bad because there's only so few larve off 1 hatch untill after the first queen inject...the marines can just push you back non stop till that first inject finishes and you are in danger of being bunker blocked
not to mention you have to blindly make ~20 lings in that case so if terran just stops after 5 mariens and puts down a CC you are economically fucked
nestea fucked up his drone/ling control pretty bad there but hatch first is the only choice really...hency why steppes is auto loss vs terran, im sure nestea expected to lose set 2
Just randomly quoting this so that people like sleepingdog see it.
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zergs do realize you can put a 2nd hatch in your main which is a lot easier to defend than your nat, removing any larva issues, then you can just take the expan at a safer point
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On December 06 2010 19:36 Liquid`Ret wrote:
people who keep talking about 'hatch first' really don't have a clue.. 2 rax constant marines dominates pool first so bad because there's only so few larve off 1 hatch untill after the first queen inject...the marines can just push you back non stop till that first inject finishes and you are in danger of being bunker blocked
not to mention you have to blindly make ~20 lings in that case so if terran just stops after 5 mariens and puts down a CC you are economically fucked
nestea fucked up his drone/ling control pretty bad there but hatch first is the only choice really...hency why steppes is auto loss vs terran, im sure nestea expected to lose set 2
Steppes is just a terrible map, seems like its almost always an autoloss for Zerg.
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Nestea couldn't get surrounds on the marines, that's all it came down to really. also, listen to ret because he's absolutely right in this case. Unless maybe you go for an inbase hatch, but even then he'll still just bunker block you.
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On December 06 2010 19:36 Liquid`Ret wrote:
people who keep talking about 'hatch first' really don't have a clue.. 2 rax constant marines dominates pool first so bad because there's only so few larve off 1 hatch untill after the first queen inject...the marines can just push you back non stop till that first inject finishes and you are in danger of being bunker blocked
not to mention you have to blindly make ~20 lings in that case so if terran just stops after 5 mariens and puts down a CC you are economically fucked
nestea fucked up his drone/ling control pretty bad there but hatch first is the only choice really...hency why steppes is auto loss vs terran, im sure nestea expected to lose set 2
you can't even use all 6 larvae when 4 drones are mining though????
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On December 06 2010 19:37 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 19:35 Lucius2 wrote:On December 06 2010 19:34 estee wrote:Poll: NesTea vs Rain Game 2 Recommended?No (149) 77% Yes (44) 23% 193 total votes Your vote: NesTea vs Rain Game 2 Recommended? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
srsly whoever voted yes, should be shot in the face I voted yes - every zerg-player should watch this to see how incredibly stupid hatch first on steppes is. Zergs deserve to get all-in-ed this way as long as they don't adjust their super-greedy builds. What's next, a toss complaining that he can't straight tech to templar/carrier after 15 nexus?
I could not agree more with Sleepingdog. I am a zerg myself and I find it disrespectful to the race, ( yes I go that far), that zerg prefers to lose a game instantly when they can't enter a midgame with a slight disadvantage ( with 14 pool).
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On December 06 2010 19:35 zak wrote:
i used to hate this all in stuff but I understand why terran does it. Mid game and late game you cannot stop zerg unless you are at least on par with bases. once zerg can mass banelings the game is over. perfect micro is needed and you just cant have perfect marine micro every game. Too many variables. Blizz needs to work on this so we can have more even macro games. my 2 cents.
If Jinro can win a macro game against zergs, then I expect these Korean Terrans who are supposed to be the best in the world to do it as well.
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On December 06 2010 19:38 Darhaja wrote:
lol haven't heard this argument before, pretty tired of this stupid back and forth greedy zergs punished for 14 hatch, *everyone goes 14 hatch to take the risk*, no they should lose if they 14 hatch. back and forth back and forth... geez shut it already that arguments so old cool nestea messed up he can hold 2 rax with 14 hatching he just messed up. Moving on
You make a really good point. Does anyone think that NesTea used a build that he hadn't ever won on that map in practice?
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I will take Idra and Ret's word on hatch first on SoW over all the peeps here saying Zerg getting greedy.
Shitty maps give us shitty games with no Veto of maps.
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On December 06 2010 19:36 Liquid`Ret wrote:
people who keep talking about 'hatch first' really don't have a clue.. 2 rax constant marines dominates pool first so bad because there's only so few larve off 1 hatch untill after the first queen inject...the marines can just push you back non stop till that first inject finishes and you are in danger of being bunker blocked
not to mention you have to blindly make ~20 lings in that case so if terran just stops after 5 mariens and puts down a CC you are economically fucked
nestea fucked up his drone/ling control pretty bad there but hatch first is the only choice really...hency why steppes is auto loss vs terran, im sure nestea expected to lose set 2
Listen to ret. All those non-zerg players telling us just to pool first and we would be fine should get a practice partner and try that on steppes. then we talk again
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On December 06 2010 19:35 zak wrote:
i used to hate this all in stuff but I understand why terran does it. Mid game and late game you cannot stop zerg unless you are at least on par with bases. once zerg can mass banelings the game is over. perfect micro is needed and you just cant have perfect marine micro every game. Too many variables. Blizz needs to work on this so we can have more even macro games. my 2 cents.
Totally agree.
Everyone complaining about "noob all in terrans" need to realize that it's ridiculously hard to out-macro an unharassed, competent zerg in mid/late game unless you get some kind of tremendous advantage at some point. But that's what happens when Blizzard balances the game around maps like Steppes of War and Deltra Quadrant, I guess, and thinks that zerg is weak in general when there's a 2 second rush distance.
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On December 06 2010 19:38 Dente wrote:
Can a topzerg please explain why you wouldn't make 1 or 2 spines when you scout 2raxes? They will be close to finnished if you build them exactly when the hatch pops up.
too much minerals, they get kicked quickly, they take too long to finish. Could at least make 8 more lings
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Thanks for the update ret!
Though I suppose it really shouldn't have been necessary after seeing and hearing all about your build when Idra played on Steppes.
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On December 06 2010 19:36 positron. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 19:31 Shikyo wrote:On December 06 2010 19:29 positron. wrote:
Why don't I see mass turrets anymore? Flash does it pretty often. I really don't understand it either. Just ~1000 minerals and the mutalisk harrass is completely negated. 10 turrets can cover two bases well and if you research +1 range those mutas will never do anything.
Or they will just fly in and destroy the turrets, like those 2,3 turrets they did destroy near the mineral lines.
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On December 06 2010 19:37 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 19:35 Lucius2 wrote:On December 06 2010 19:34 estee wrote:Poll: NesTea vs Rain Game 2 Recommended?No (149) 77% Yes (44) 23% 193 total votes Your vote: NesTea vs Rain Game 2 Recommended? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
srsly whoever voted yes, should be shot in the face I voted yes - every zerg-player should watch this to see how incredibly stupid hatch first on steppes is. Zergs deserve to get all-in-ed this way as long as they don't adjust their super-greedy builds. What's next, a toss complaining that he can't straight tech to templar/carrier after 15 nexus?
you do realize that pool first is worse than 14 hatch against 2rax?
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On December 06 2010 19:38 Irrelevant wrote:
zergs do realize you can put a 2nd hatch in your main which is a lot easier to defend than your nat, removing any larva issues, then you can just take the expan at a safer point
bunker wall
terran wins
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On December 06 2010 19:38 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 19:36 Liquid`Ret wrote:
people who keep talking about 'hatch first' really don't have a clue.. 2 rax constant marines dominates pool first so bad because there's only so few larve off 1 hatch untill after the first queen inject...the marines can just push you back non stop till that first inject finishes and you are in danger of being bunker blocked
not to mention you have to blindly make ~20 lings in that case so if terran just stops after 5 mariens and puts down a CC you are economically fucked
nestea fucked up his drone/ling control pretty bad there but hatch first is the only choice really...hency why steppes is auto loss vs terran, im sure nestea expected to lose set 2 you can't even use all 6 larvae when 4 drones are mining though????
But you decide on hatch first before you see that they are pulling scvs. If they don't pull scvs, but build tons of marines, you don't pull that many drones and need the production.
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On December 06 2010 19:37 Consolidate wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 19:34 kwaky wrote:
I actually don't mind short games due to all-ins.. the micro-intensive battles are pretty exciting to watch. Am I the only one who feels this way? It's a nice change of pace.
To me personally its more astonishing to see Jinro harassing a base with a Banshee, simultaneuosly pushing forward his groud force and macroing up.
Nothing against early aggro / timing pushes etc., as long as you dont all-in its fine for me tbh.
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How nice you people are. Already making death threats. Maybe I should report this to police, since you seem to be serious.
IMNesTea looks to be a very dangerous zerg. I think NesTea is more skilled of the two, but I kinda want this seasons winner to be non-zerg. So unfortunately I'll have to cheer against zergs today :/
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On December 06 2010 19:38 Zyvo wrote:
i have a really noob question but if zerg need the larva why can't they inbase hatch?
because they can just block you in with the double bunkers and if your gonna drop a hatch you might as well do it at your natural for the extra base not to mention the good spine crawler placement.
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EPT
