EPTZerg have won 2 GSL's WHEN THEY WERE WEAKER patch wise, all the whiners stop hating. I'm glad that we have a protoss advancing, and everyone who saw the games know what a great matchup that was!
[GSL] S3 Ro8 Day 1 - Page 145
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Kage
India788 Posts
Zerg have won 2 GSL's WHEN THEY WERE WEAKER patch wise, all the whiners stop hating. I'm glad that we have a protoss advancing, and everyone who saw the games know what a great matchup that was! | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On December 06 2010 22:28 Drazzzt wrote: Please stop the balance talks. I am a Zerg user as well, but what's the problem? Zerg already won 2 GSLs, so it's ok if they don't win this one, isn't it? All-in play will be abandoned if players learn how to stop it. Come on, I still hope that terrans will find better ways to win against zerg. I will quote this very smart person for truth as my last post in this thread. | ||
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Darhaja
United States108 Posts
On December 06 2010 22:27 kojinshugi wrote: I didn't forget scan, I was talking about mobile detection units. You have to consciously save up for scans and even the threat of cloaked units is a far bigger economic hit than saccing one ovie. And what does walling off have to do with anything? T doesn't wall against toss, walls don't help against banshees, walls barely help against burrow roaches who can pretty much two shot a depot and reburrow. Unless you like keeping half a dozen scvs idling by your wall in case Z goes burrow, repairing it isn't really an option. I've still to see anyone explain the reasoning behind the common wisdom of "Zerg can't scout". I was implying that if FD could wall off he wouldn't have lost that game, and i was also talking about detection in general never once did i say mobile detection. I mean FD lost to DT's stay on subject  | ||
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LoLAdriankat
United States4307 Posts
Have fun being walled off by bunkers. I don't think balance was even an issue today. All 4 of the players were doing terrible. Losing to a DT rush? Sigh. | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
What does it change? Marines comes right after your hatchery is done, and after few seconds you have few lings. If you go pool first you also have lings ready BUT, you don't have larva for enough lings + you can't put spine crawler at exp. + you are more vulnerable to bunker contain. | ||
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Darhaja
United States108 Posts
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dakalro
Romania525 Posts
Yes, sometimes you can't exploit your enemy cause he got creative and it ends up a macro game but imo that should be rare. Until then I will keep enjoying how players evolve their strategic gameplay while most seem to be hanging on to the utopian macro only games. They will never ever happen in tournaments, not with proper players that have time to study their opponents, they'll be there as a surprise but not for all games. | ||
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andrewwiggin
Australia435 Posts
On December 06 2010 22:33 Darhaja wrote: Dont feed the troll im pretty sure everyone knows 14 hatch isnt the problem lol you're talking like 14 hatch is a law or something. It's not. It's a game play. And it's losing to all-ins.. so obviously something is weak about that game play. Ta da, magic. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
really wished he had the guts to play a macro game. Hongun really only won because of superior buildorders and not losing his nerves while defending those all-in attacks. | ||
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
On December 06 2010 22:30 Darhaja wrote: I was implying that if FD could wall off he wouldn't have lost that game, and i was also talking about detection in general never once did i say mobile detection. I mean FD lost to DT's stay on subject Dude, who walls off against Protoss still? The fact that Stalkers can snipe at buildings and use the choke point against you makes walling off vs Protoss disadvantageous in most situations. thats why most diamond level terrans dont wall off against anyone except zerg players. Walling off to defend against DT is a moot point. Saccing an OL is annoying, yea, but observers are more expensive and take longer to get. Scan is generally better but has an opportunity cost of 270 minerals for the MULE that was given up. You say zerg has the worst end of the stick for everything? How about their godly macro and huge mobility? Stop trying to find problems in game balance just because the last 2 zergs (who won both of the previous GSLs I might add) got knocked out. | ||
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InteGrated
United States259 Posts
90000 dollars given in a possible coin flip.. | ||
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chanpa
Sweden51 Posts
![[image loading]](http://data.fuskbugg.se/dipdip/purdy_tasteless.png) My face when I realised Jinro will probably go to ro4 | ||
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doffe
Sweden636 Posts
On December 06 2010 22:30 Darhaja wrote: I was implying that if FD could wall off he wouldn't have lost that game, and i was also talking about detection in general never once did i say mobile detection. I mean FD lost to DT's stay on subject FD did not loose the game because zerg has a harder time to get detection/mobile detection. He lost cause he was going all in zerglings and got the latest lair ever. Every solid BO should account for atleast such a thing as DTs. He could have easily just got 200 more gas and a OS and be alot safer with just a few less lings. Zerg is not UP, zerg doesnt have have the hardest time with everything, very few things actually. We are most mobile, best macro, easiest techswitching well u name it- And worst detection goes to toss, they are the only race that should ever be in the situation while being without detection when the DTs come cause as someone before me said, all their BOs do not include robo. All zergs BOs should have a lair by then or atleast have gotten into the opponents base. | ||
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yandere991
Australia394 Posts
On December 06 2010 22:39 clickrush wrote: I wonder how the series played out if FD wasnt that cheesy and all-inish. I believe that FD got crushed in practice by Hongun and he paniced his way through those matches with the false mindset. really wished he had the guts to play a macro game. Hongun really only won because of superior buildorders and not losing his nerves while defending those all-in attacks. I really wish to see more of FDs ZvP. I wonder if his ZvP consists entirely of rush tactics because the only ones I can remember are from Incas games and this one and they seem to prove he really isn't confident going a straight up normal game against a protoss. | ||
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Darhaja
United States108 Posts
On December 06 2010 22:39 andrewwiggin wrote: lol you're talking like 14 hatch is a law or something. It's not. It's a game play. And it's losing to all-ins.. so obviously something is weak about that game play. Ta da, magic. K, it's a law thats exactly what i was getting at and it obviously loses to SCV all-ins when they double rax, it might lose to one thing does that mean u should completely exclude it from your strategies? no because if they dont all in your in a good position.. Is it worth the risk? yeah bec if u get 1 spine down and pump lings u can hold a scv all in if you pull all your drones with the scvs and its definately doable. 14 hatch has never been the problem, look at FD vs bitbybit on jungle basin.. u can hold all in's its just a matter of pulling all of your workers and going all out to win instead of dying bec u didnt do everything u can do. 14 hatch is fine, its just i dont think an all in should cause such a drastic reaction from the zerg IMO. | ||
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cuppatea
United Kingdom1401 Posts
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ReketSomething
United States6012 Posts
LB must be going bonkers | ||
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Darhaja
United States108 Posts
On December 06 2010 22:40 Supamang wrote: Dude, who walls off against Protoss still? The fact that Stalkers can snipe at buildings and use the choke point against you makes walling off vs Protoss disadvantageous in most situations. thats why most diamond level terrans dont wall off against anyone except zerg players. Walling off to defend against DT is a moot point. Saccing an OL is annoying, yea, but observers are more expensive and take longer to get. Scan is generally better but has an opportunity cost of 270 minerals for the MULE that was given up. You say zerg has the worst end of the stick for everything? How about their godly macro and huge mobility? Stop trying to find problems in game balance just because the last 2 zergs (who won both of the previous GSLs I might add) got knocked out. Notice that u said macro. We have no variety its roach hydra or ling bling muta thats our strategies thats it. Look at all of the strategies that terran and toss have at their disposal. Its quite a difference. Just saying this upcoming patch gives protoss more variety, but less variety from the already less variant zerg so I just think the race is dulling down and I wish there was more options their macro is very fun dont get me wrong, but if u played zerg and 95% of your games was holding cheese wouldn't that get old? because no one wants to go to a macro game? and yeah almost 70% of tvz are double rax these days so u tell me, doesn't zerg in the long run have the short end of the stick of everything? i think the answer is yes. Also when ppl bring up 2 zergs won 2 GSLS, it's a stupid thing to bring up considering both terrans in the finals played like shit and 3 out of the top 4 in both season was all terrans so, yeah. | ||
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Endorsed
Netherlands1221 Posts
On December 06 2010 22:49 cuppatea wrote: Watching Idra's stream and he's just lost to 2 SCV all-ins after going pool first so let's not pretend like pool first builds are a free win against double rax pressure. Those were on Delta Quadrant. Lost one was a delayed marine scv all in. He expected an expansion because terran play built a bunker at his natural so he droned up. It's really shitty for zerg right now with the 2 rax built. If you make too much zerglings and he expands, you are behind. If you make too much drones and he atacks. You are dead. Dunno why he didn't built like 2 spine crawlers. it was a good 5 min into the game and he could've gotten them up pretty easily. | ||
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cuppatea
United Kingdom1401 Posts
On December 06 2010 22:52 Endorsed wrote: Those were on Delta Quadrant. Lost one was a delayed marine scv all in. He expected an expansion because terran play built a bunker at his natural so he droned up. It's really shitty for zerg right now with the 2 rax built. If you make too much zerglings and he expands, you are behind. If you make too much drones and he atacks. You are dead. Dunno why he didn't built like 2 spine crawlers. it was a good 5 min into the game and he could've gotten them up pretty easily. There was an earlier game against the same guy on Meta where he went pool first, made nothing but lings and still lost to the marine/SCV rush. It's not unbeatable but no one has found a hard counter yet, which makes all of these "lol just go pool first and it's over!" posts a little annoying. | ||
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