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On December 03 2010 22:25 Thezzphai wrote:would be fun to know how many liquibet-streaks mvp destroyed today  I jumped like a thousand places up because I had that one right. I also just betted HongUn over FruitDealer, if have that one...
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Does that mean that I can't have the "Protoss are UP" excuse now?
Damn...now I'll have to get better.
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I think its AWESOME Jinro made it to Ro8, and I'd totally bet on him beating choya after 10000 hours of practicing with MC (MC is vs T as well ;])
As far as the whole tournament goes, I still think Foxer is the most skilled player overall. What people maybe don't realize is if you have such Amazing micro than it is actually advantageous to use units like marines because they are so cost effective. There really isn't anyone else in the world that can pull off such micro with marines, therefore no one uses Foxer's builds and he seems like a "one trick pony." The spread in the end of game 1 vs leenock was just hilarious ;]
My predictions: Nestea is in the final again, other finalist would be winner of Foxer/MC. Rooting for Jinro tho ofc ;]
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Finals will be PvZ, I don't see anyone crushing MC and Nestea is just a beast.
Jinro vs MC Semis will be fun though
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Jinro after quals: When I failed to qualify in the last 2 seasons, I was crushed and felt empty inside. I feel like the world is mine after qualifying.
Good to read it now, knowing that he already achieved his goal of getting S-class, and can even achieve more! :D
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JINRO FIGHTING!
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On December 03 2010 23:20 LeaD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 23:05 Ansalem wrote:On December 03 2010 22:54 LeaD wrote:On December 03 2010 22:46 wintergt wrote:On December 03 2010 22:37 LeaD wrote: Marineking is still too much of a "one trick pony" in my opinion, even though it's a very good "trick" and has him placing the top 8 again. Now he's going to start running into players that won't make the same mistakes Leenock did.
I mean to win it all. In a 7 game series you just can't keep doing the samething, as Nestea demonstrated. That is such a short-sighted thing to say. He placed 2nd in GSL 2, 2nd in the allstar or whatever the league was called they did inbetween GSL 2 and 3, and now he's in the ro8 again. He is anything but a one trick pony. My guess is that most people that think he "just masses marines" don't remember the games where he went marauder/marine, tank+bio, banshees, thors,.. and lack the strategic insight to see how good not only his micro is, but also his awareness, positioning and game sense. You mean the ones he lost? The "strategic insight"? I saw three games today, and a second game where Leenock perfectly countered what he was doing and what does MK do? He goes back to plan A and just hopes Leenock doesn't play the same way. Last season against Kyrix, the perfect counter was demonstrated this season with a few seige tanks and a fortified wall, and what did MK do last season? Mass marines and a few marauders every game, and CONTINUALLY allowed Kyrix to break into his base with mass baneling and speedlings, rather than fortify his wall properly or quickly enough. He made a great comeback in the final game, which he was losing, and Kyrix allowed him back into the game with his poor forethought. Didn't he lose the latest GOM all-star final to the same playstyle as well? Maybe you should look at yourself for that short-sightedness and "lack of strategic insight" since MK has failed at most of his attempts to branch out and demonstrated today that he isn't confident in switching his play style when so much is on the line. People are going to figure out the counter to him and then he's left to learn completely different play styles, which he has failed to do so far. He does have great game sense, awareness and positioning, but he still is a master of one thing. I'm not sure what you mean by "the ones he lost" as a response to the previous poster. MK won in GSL2 with banshees on scrap, won with a tank push on steppes, and I'm pretty sure won his thor-rush game. Also the way you mentioned Kyrix being defeated this season was because he was blindly countered with a strong wall-in and tanks because Kyrix's heavy baneling bust style had become well-known by that point. (MK also built tanks at the beginning against Kyrix in GSL2 on Shakuras and stopped production when he began attacking accross map). I'm also not sure how Leenock perfectly countered MK in game two. He just Nydus'd the island base that MK didn't defend against ground and got too far ahead in macro. In either case, MK used marauders in game 3 instead of pure marines anyway, so I'm not sure what you're arguing. I'm not going to go back through every game he's had to point out where he made mistakes or lost with other units, but he demonstrated today he doesn't like switching his style up or only does it to small degrees. Are you referring to the thor game where Nestea was completely blind sided and MK had the game won but completely mismanaged the thors and allowed Nestea to get back into the game? Then went back to his "bread and butter" and won because Nestea made a few mistakes himself after crawling his way back. I don't know which steppes game you are talking about or scrap station. I am guessing the banshees were just for a quick harass and switching back into his normal style, and the tank push, well done. You mean the well-known strategy that Kyrix demonstrated the entire GSL season 2 before their match? The one Artosis suggested a counter for within the first few matches Kyrix had? You`re telling me MK couldn't figure that out himself being on a team full of players, with coaches and seeing it himself in a few matches? Wait, so MK did use seige tanks, but failed at using them properly against Kyrix style, which should be completely countered by the tanks. He still continually failed to fortify his walls properly and still couldn't manage to beat Kyrix when they met in the GOM all-star final knowing the Kyrix play style over an even longer period of time. Go back a page and you can read why I think he countered him perfectly. If you`re going to suggest adding a few marauders to his mix completely changes MK play style, I'm not even going to respond. Anyways, I have to go finish my lab report, we'll see how well his "different" play styles work next week when the players he's up against can take advantage of how they know exactly what he's going to do.
He did mess up when trying for the kill with the thors, but he got NesTea way behind with the initial drop anyways, so it was still effective. I'm pretty sure he used more thors in the second part of the game anyway. The banshee game he killed the queens and then the spire before it got up and resulted in gg before he would need to tech switch. Kyrix also only had one terran opponent before MK in GSL2. He used the sieges effectively against Kyrix on Shakuras in GSL2 to defend his natural, but then switched to marines for their map mobility. I didn't watch the all-star, so I can't comment on that. You seem to be very angry (I never said adding marauders made the style completely different and I don't think threatening to stop replying is a very good debate tactic) and either don't have knowledge of or dismiss games where he did use a different build. Lots of players have builds they are good at and use primarily. Obviously he is having success with using mostly bio. Pure marine/medivac made him stand out more from other terrans, but it's not like MMM was particularly unusual, even against zerg. He also became less likely to commit to early/scv supported marine pressure early on in GSL3 like he did in GSL2. I feel that is a fairly significant adjustment in play style. Your closing paragraph confuses me too since he plays mostly bio after placing 2nd in GSL2 and the all-stars, so wouldn't people already have taken advantage of knowing what he's going to do if it were that easy?
I missed your other post before about having more speedlings, which is interesting. However, MK was pretty behind that game because of the expansion loss, so I'm not sure it is super telling about how effective it would be.
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All the crap about foxer is annoying. He won. Pretty handily too. I don't care if he subscribes to your notion of a skilled player, he is winning his matches. End of story. Leenock was a 'good' zerg player who shared your fetishes for macro games. Look where he ended up.
JINRO FIGHTING
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On December 03 2010 23:20 LeaD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 23:05 Ansalem wrote:On December 03 2010 22:54 LeaD wrote:On December 03 2010 22:46 wintergt wrote:On December 03 2010 22:37 LeaD wrote: Marineking is still too much of a "one trick pony" in my opinion, even though it's a very good "trick" and has him placing the top 8 again. Now he's going to start running into players that won't make the same mistakes Leenock did.
I mean to win it all. In a 7 game series you just can't keep doing the samething, as Nestea demonstrated. That is such a short-sighted thing to say. He placed 2nd in GSL 2, 2nd in the allstar or whatever the league was called they did inbetween GSL 2 and 3, and now he's in the ro8 again. He is anything but a one trick pony. My guess is that most people that think he "just masses marines" don't remember the games where he went marauder/marine, tank+bio, banshees, thors,.. and lack the strategic insight to see how good not only his micro is, but also his awareness, positioning and game sense. You mean the ones he lost? The "strategic insight"? I saw three games today, and a second game where Leenock perfectly countered what he was doing and what does MK do? He goes back to plan A and just hopes Leenock doesn't play the same way. Last season against Kyrix, the perfect counter was demonstrated this season with a few seige tanks and a fortified wall, and what did MK do last season? Mass marines and a few marauders every game, and CONTINUALLY allowed Kyrix to break into his base with mass baneling and speedlings, rather than fortify his wall properly or quickly enough. He made a great comeback in the final game, which he was losing, and Kyrix allowed him back into the game with his poor forethought. Didn't he lose the latest GOM all-star final to the same playstyle as well? Maybe you should look at yourself for that short-sightedness and "lack of strategic insight" since MK has failed at most of his attempts to branch out and demonstrated today that he isn't confident in switching his play style when so much is on the line. People are going to figure out the counter to him and then he's left to learn completely different play styles, which he has failed to do so far. He does have great game sense, awareness and positioning, but he still is a master of one thing. I'm not sure what you mean by "the ones he lost" as a response to the previous poster. MK won in GSL2 with banshees on scrap, won with a tank push on steppes, and I'm pretty sure won his thor-rush game. Also the way you mentioned Kyrix being defeated this season was because he was blindly countered with a strong wall-in and tanks because Kyrix's heavy baneling bust style had become well-known by that point. (MK also built tanks at the beginning against Kyrix in GSL2 on Shakuras and stopped production when he began attacking accross map). I'm also not sure how Leenock perfectly countered MK in game two. He just Nydus'd the island base that MK didn't defend against ground and got too far ahead in macro. In either case, MK used marauders in game 3 instead of pure marines anyway, so I'm not sure what you're arguing. I'm not going to go back through every game he's had to point out where he made mistakes or lost with other units, but he demonstrated today he doesn't like switching his style up or only does it to small degrees. Are you referring to the thor game where Nestea was completely blind sided and MK had the game won but completely mismanaged the thors and allowed Nestea to get back into the game? Then went back to his "bread and butter" and won because Nestea made a few mistakes himself after crawling his way back. I don't know which steppes game you are talking about or scrap station. I am guessing the banshees were just for a quick harass and switching back into his normal style, and the tank push, well done. You mean the well-known strategy that Kyrix demonstrated the entire GSL season 2 before their match? The one Artosis suggested a counter for within the first few matches Kyrix had? You`re telling me MK couldn't figure that out himself being on a team full of players, with coaches and seeing it himself in a few matches? Wait, so MK did use seige tanks, but failed at using them properly against Kyrix style, which should be completely countered by the tanks. He still continually failed to fortify his walls properly and still couldn't manage to beat Kyrix when they met in the GOM all-star final knowing the Kyrix play style over an even longer period of time. Go back a page and you can read why I think he countered him perfectly. If you`re going to suggest adding a few marauders to his mix completely changes MK play style, I'm not even going to respond. Anyways, I have to go finish my lab report, we'll see how well his "different" play styles work next week when the players he's up against can take advantage of how they know exactly what he's going to do. The banshee game was won with mass banshees, not a transition into marines. And this post illustrates exactly what I was trying to say. While on the surface it may look like "he always makes lots of marines", in reality he does switch up his builds and unit compositions from game to game (adding in marauders, or tanks, timing on expansion, etc), they are not huge changes but the timings are very different and it makes a huge difference to play against. He has been doing "the same thing" (as it looks on the surface) since GSL2 yet he is still showing consistent good results, and he's probably one of the, if not the, top terran player at the moment, so dissing on him is just random hating at this point.
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First CheckPrime, now IMmvp?
choya = BigNameHunter
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Pretty happy that everyone I wanted to win, won. 4/4 Liquibet for both today and yesterday.
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Canada9720 Posts
On December 03 2010 23:39 lakritzc wrote:![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/jNvXj.jpg) JINRO FIGHTING! rofl nice. great job jinro! i hope we get to see jinro take out mvp! edit: LOL mvp lost. well take out that protoss!
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tmzNf.jpg)
Some awesome games today, got my picture taken with MC and Jinro (he even knew my name). Also won another Razer Abyssus from the sign contest at the end. :D
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ChoyafOu could very well be the Dark Horse of this tournament. No one thinks he'll win but he could end up winning the whole thing.
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Lost 2 liquibets because of Leenock and MVP .. I mean Leenock why didn't you cover the rocks where you know your opponent is an aggressive pusher and will come to you from every route possible. And why did you not go Mutalisks on Jungle Basin and instead get Ultralisks? Ultralisks vs upgraded Marines with micro .. not the best choice boy. Didn't really play as well as in the game with Clide.
And MVP .. you threw away game 2 on Blistering Sands to the wackiest Protoss I have ever seen. I mean with your ladder status and all the hype .. I expected at least a 2-1 even if you did lose. I guess nerves played a role here or maybe the matchup. You're probably just stronger at TvZ.
Congrats to both Jinro and MC!! That 3rd game against July was pretty tense and Jinro had me worried when Polt elevatored in game 1 and shut down some Banshees in game 2. Apart from that, awesome awesome play from both and good luck in the semi-finals .. too bad you could face each other in the semis if all goes well.
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On December 04 2010 00:00 dabom88 wrote: ChoyafOu could very well be the Dark Horse of this tournament. No one thinks he'll win but he could end up winning the whole thing. It would be so awesome if a protoss could win it. But most of all I want Jinro to win it ofcourse. Just not another zerg. MarineKing deserves it too.
This is probably the best ro8 we've had btw:
2 TvP, 1 TvZ, 1 PvZ.
Ro8 is played on monday?
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wow this is amazing how Jinro won! so did foxer! whooooooooo~~~
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wtf im ranked 9 on liquidbet. THIS. IS. AWESOME
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Haha wow. Betting against the past two champions (and some others obviously) dropped me from 1100 to 3600 in liquibet in one night.
She is a cruel mistress..
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