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On November 29 2010 22:20 myIRE wrote:
nothing beats marines as far as cost-effectiveness ratio goes but you have to take other things in consideration, carriers are flying, they have longer reach than marines, they have more HP than marines and when you have a bunch of them they do cause chaos. Every unit serves it's purpose.
i am not denying that, i am simply trying to fight off the wave of incoming Arthosis sheep that will repeat the wrongly claimed "fact" by Arthosis that Carrier have the best DPS of any unit in the game when in fact they have the worst DPS of any combat unit in the game.
just look at this very topic, it allready started...
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On November 29 2010 22:26 PulseSUI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2010 22:20 myIRE wrote:
nothing beats marines as far as cost-effectiveness ratio goes but you have to take other things in consideration, carriers are flying, they have longer reach than marines, they have more HP than marines and when you have a bunch of them they do cause chaos. Every unit serves it's purpose. i am not denying that, i am simply trying to fight off the wave of incoming Arthosis sheep that will repeat the wrongly claimed "fact" by Arthosis that Carrier have the best DPS of any unit in the game when in fact they have the worst DPS of any combat unit in the game. just look at this very topic, it allready started...
No you are wrong. A carrier unit has the best dps in the game compared to another unit. That is what Artosis said, and it is true. This is just to fight the anti-Artosis sheep lololol
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On November 29 2010 22:22 PartyBiscuit wrote:So this means that the only Foreigners staying in Korea is pretty much IdrA, unless Jinro is able to pull off wins against Moon and Boxer  Really wish the map pool was better for Ret.
Imho Jinro has better chances against Moon and Boxer than Idra against MVP and Check.
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On November 29 2010 22:22 Jackle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2010 21:49 PulseSUI wrote:
Carriers have the LOWEST DPS per cost in the entire game.
not the best DPS...
where does Artosis get his infos from? O_o I think he said they were the "highest dps" in general and not for cost.
Artosis needs to check out this one unit called the Thor it seems. =P
According to my tests a Carrier has about 30 dps, which is really low for its cost.
On November 29 2010 22:27 mprs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2010 22:26 PulseSUI wrote:On November 29 2010 22:20 myIRE wrote:
nothing beats marines as far as cost-effectiveness ratio goes but you have to take other things in consideration, carriers are flying, they have longer reach than marines, they have more HP than marines and when you have a bunch of them they do cause chaos. Every unit serves it's purpose. i am not denying that, i am simply trying to fight off the wave of incoming Arthosis sheep that will repeat the wrongly claimed "fact" by Arthosis that Carrier have the best DPS of any unit in the game when in fact they have the worst DPS of any combat unit in the game. just look at this very topic, it allready started... No you are wrong. A carrier unit has the best dps in the game compared to another unit. That is what Artosis said, and it is true. This is just to fight the anti-Artosis sheep lololol Except Thor has around double, BC has more as well.
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Here is one unit. It's more expensive than a mothership but it wins you the game. Here's another unit. It costs 1 mineral but does more damage than an SCV.
Peoeple shouldn't put so much focus into dps per cost. It's a very important variable but once you have a critical mass of something, it isn't going to matter that the dps per COST is bad. The cost was already paid, now we have the dps to enjoy. Saying the carriers didn't help because the dps to cost is bad is stupid, the cost didn't matter, what mattered was the fact that he had way more dps. He paid more for it, but he won because he had it. Marines are the most cost effective unit in the game, there's a reason terrans don't end the game with 200/200 marines though.
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On November 29 2010 22:15 PulseSUI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2010 21:52 Tobberoth wrote:
Please. Interceptors aren't going to die quicker because medivacs are present and as we all know, carrier DPS is off the hook. The medivacs would have gone down in seconds. carrier DPS is off the hook? carriers have the DPS of 3 marines.. yes, very "off the hook", as in: there is no unit in the game that does less damage per cost then carriers.
3 marines? rofl
3 marines do 6dmg every .86 seconds
so 3 marines do 21 dps
carriers have 8 interceptors that do 10dmg every 3 seconds = 26 dps
not to mention carriers have amazing range, become super effective with weapon upgrades, and interceptors soak a lot of damage for your ground army.
EDIT: off topic anyone know how much hp/shields interceptors have?
is it 20/20?
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On November 29 2010 22:25 Sadistx wrote:
Cross position metalopolis is a LOT more Zerg favored than Shakuras.
On Shakuras T can get a super-easy 3rd and 4th as well and split the map with tanks in the center. Just park 5 tanks behind the grass on your side of the map and you just secured your side.
On meta there's no position that lets you do that unless you wall off 2 chokes with double planetary fortresses (there was an old game of morrow vs ret doing it), so zerg can easily counter if you decide to push, so if your push doesnt win the game right then and there, you just insta lost.
Also on Shakuras if you get closer spawns, you can break the rocks and go into Z's main from the side with siege tanks, which is stupid imba, because they can reach almost to the main lair/hatch from below.
shakuras is sooo balanced. it's hard for t at first glance but the fact that the harrassing distance is longer then the walking distance(and especially more so if terran chooses to expand in the top/bottom direction) and that the tanks can barrage half of the possible expansions make it equally complicated to play for both z and t alike.
Also people's map analysis pretty much stops at "oh this distance is long must favor zerg." When in reality on meta close by air positions are much more zerg favored then crossmap.
Better for muta harrass.
Harder for terran to drop you at multiple fronts late game.
harder for terran to take gold and split map in half(very hard to break)
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haven't watched the games yet but after looking at the results:
+ Show Spoiler +what the fuck, ret go screwed so hard. of course he won on the one map where he could macro. such bullshit... steppes AND jungle basin? and back to back at that? how is any zerg supposed to win a bo3 with those maps?
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On November 29 2010 22:27 mprs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2010 22:26 PulseSUI wrote:On November 29 2010 22:20 myIRE wrote:
nothing beats marines as far as cost-effectiveness ratio goes but you have to take other things in consideration, carriers are flying, they have longer reach than marines, they have more HP than marines and when you have a bunch of them they do cause chaos. Every unit serves it's purpose. i am not denying that, i am simply trying to fight off the wave of incoming Arthosis sheep that will repeat the wrongly claimed "fact" by Arthosis that Carrier have the best DPS of any unit in the game when in fact they have the worst DPS of any combat unit in the game. just look at this very topic, it allready started... No you are wrong. A carrier unit has the best dps in the game compared to another unit. That is what Artosis said, and it is true. This is just to fight the anti-Artosis sheep lololol
Depends on the armor, on a 5 Ultralisk Carriers should deal less damage than a Siegetank or Thor?
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On November 29 2010 22:22 Jackle wrote:
I think he said they were the "highest dps" in general and not for cost.
this are the units that have higher DPS then Carriers (26.3 DPS) on a unit per unit base:
Immortals (vs armored): 34.5 DPS.
Dark Templar: 26.7.
Thor: 47 DPS vs ground.
BattleCruiser: 35 DPS vs ground / 27 DPS vs Air.
Missile Turrets: 28 DPS.
Ultralisk (vs armored): 38 DPS.
that is on a unit by unit base, as soon as you factor in cost, the carrier goes way way WAY down there.
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Ret. Ret!
*rips off shirt in the rain*
REEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!
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This thread is being derailed into how wrong Artosis is and as iNcontroL says. He's always wrong 
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On November 29 2010 22:39 Raiznhell wrote:This thread is being derailed into how wrong Artosis is and as iNcontroL says. He's always wrong
sorry for derailing, but i am simply not looking forward to the next two weeks of "lulz, brotoss player so dumb, should build moar Carriers, best DPS in the game!"
it is about as insulting as "should build more nydus worms" is to zerg.
they have there uses, but DPS-delivery is not one of them.
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yeah dps is the only thing that matters...
, not like range,AA/AG, mobility HP, tech path, supply, synergy, cost ...
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On November 29 2010 22:07 _vladimir_ wrote:
Eh i didn't expect Ret to actualy post here this soon, thought he will be more enraged, and not in mood for any kind of comments. It is really awesome from you to actualy bother posting your comment to your fans.
That is pure star quality for you and us all. :D
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On November 29 2010 22:32 Omigawa wrote:
how is any zerg supposed to win a bo3 with those maps?]
Actually Fruitdealer did.
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On November 29 2010 22:53 namedplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2010 22:32 Omigawa wrote:
how is any zerg supposed to win a bo3 with those maps?] Actually Fruitdealer did.
Yeah but his opponent massed bunkers instead of units and it was still kinda close 
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United States7481 Posts
On November 29 2010 22:53 namedplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2010 22:32 Omigawa wrote:
how is any zerg supposed to win a bo3 with those maps?] Actually Fruitdealer did.
FD never played a bo3 vT on those specific 3 maps.
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and fruitdealer didn't play against 1-base allins
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4 marines (200 mins) do more DPS than one carrier with 8 interceptors (450/250). It's 30 DPS vs 26 DPS.
Carriers are the exact opposite of "cost effective" - the mere reason why they work is, because interceptors screw up the ai while the carriers themselves have an absurd range when the interceptors are released.
Also they scale insanely well, each upgrade basicly gives +16, so being ahead in upgrades is extremely important (yes HongUn did research +1 air weapons).
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EPT
