EPTMLG Dallas Day 3 - Page 390
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terramagra
United States52 Posts
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
On November 08 2010 23:16 DyEnasTy wrote: Probably not. Did zerg players quiet down when FruitDealer won GSL? thx you was lookin for rep packs edit: nvm, found them on gg.net. | ||
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Chewie
Denmark708 Posts
This is the first game for anyone who needs it, sans spoilers: | ||
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terramagra
United States52 Posts
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/downloads.php?cat=4&id=642 | ||
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Zeroes
United States1102 Posts
On November 08 2010 23:16 DyEnasTy wrote: Probably not. Did zerg players quiet down when FruitDealer won GSL? I think the QQing died down since no race was doing that badly now. As long as people can do well with all 3 races the general public will not complain that much about balance since most of them know they aren't as good as the pros. | ||
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EvilNalu
United States91 Posts
On November 09 2010 00:37 Achilles wrote: Just goes to show that the skill discrepancy between koreans and non-koreans might not be as big as you guys think. If Idra can get to the top 8 or w/e at GSL I'm sure there's plenty of other non-koreans who can do the same. 1) Idra did not make top 8 at GSL. 2) Jinro, who won this MLG, failed to even qualify for the main GSL tournies. If anything, this shows the skill gap is even bigger than people think. And it will probably continue to grow as BW pros switch over. | ||
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On November 09 2010 02:34 terramagra wrote: Nevermind found day 3 replay http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/downloads.php?cat=4&id=642 thanks | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34495 Posts
On November 09 2010 02:57 EvilNalu wrote:2) Jinro, who won this MLG, failed to even qualify for the main GSL tournies. If anything, this shows the skill gap is even bigger than people think. And it will probably continue to grow as BW pros switch over. On the other hand, you have to consider that Jinro has said that the most recent patch messed up some of his favourite builds. Perhaps he wasn't able to develop any new builds before the GSL but managed to scrap up something for MLG. | ||
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
On November 09 2010 02:57 EvilNalu wrote: 1) Idra did not make top 8 at GSL. 2) Jinro, who won this MLG, failed to even qualify for the main GSL tournies. If anything, this shows the skill gap is even bigger than people think. And it will probably continue to grow as BW pros switch over. This is low-quality logic. Jinro got farther in MLG than IdrA. IdrA made it to the Round of 16 in GSL. By this A > B, B > C, A > C logic, Jinro deserves to be in the Round of 16 in the GSL. Clearly he's just had bad luck, right? The only real conclusion you actually draw from this is that Jinro was the best player in best of threes at MLG Dallas from November 5th to 7th amongst the players that he played in the matchups he played on the maps he played. That's it. Nothing more and nothing less. Certainly nothing about Koreans. | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
On November 09 2010 03:10 Firebolt145 wrote: On the other hand, you have to consider that Jinro has said that the most recent patch messed up some of his favourite builds. Perhaps he wasn't able to develop any new builds before the GSL but managed to scrap up something for MLG. The GSL prelim was before the patch IIRC | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
On November 09 2010 02:57 EvilNalu wrote: 1) Idra did not make top 8 at GSL. 2) Jinro, who won this MLG, failed to even qualify for the main GSL tournies. If anything, this shows the skill gap is even bigger than people think. And it will probably continue to grow as BW pros switch over. Actually I think it also shows a difference in play style. Idra, like many of the top Korean players, is vulnerable to a timing attack or cheese he has not scouted or misinterpreted but has very solid macro play. The MLG had a lot of cheese and 1 trick pony type play whereas the top Koreans (not the Ro64 GSL but later) tend to be almost all macro games as solid macro play wins more consistently. I think we will see this evolution in MLG as well eventually. There are very good foreign players and I look forward to seeing them join in GSL as well but we will see when one of them starts winning against the top Koreans. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On November 09 2010 03:26 Azarkon wrote: A lot of it is statistical bias. 990 Koreans vs. 10 foreigners - assuming equal skill, the chances of foreigners making it far are much less than the chances of Koreans making it far unless foreigners are >>> Koreans which of course is not true. Granted, most of the Koreans are not nearly as good as foreigners in Korea so the competition is really between maybe a group of top Koreans and a handful of top foreigners. Still, given that VERY GOOD players like FruitDealer can be eliminated by underdogs, the statistical bias is clearly an issue here. This is a good point, but you could say the same for Brood War, yet whenever Koreans come to a WCG, which is made up of mostly non-Koreans, the Koreans win. Additionally, Koreans are rarely eliminated by non-Koreans. Then we have Blizzcon, where a Korean won in SC2. Granted, another Korean was eliminated by a non-Korean. You could also say the qualifying Koreans were not the best but they did win a tournament full of the big names (I think? someone alleged this but I have not seen anything else about this tournament). So I think there is a smaller skill-gap but it might be getting bigger. | ||
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
On November 09 2010 03:34 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: This is a good point, but you could say the same for Brood War, yet whenever Koreans come to a WCG, which is made up of mostly non-Koreans, the Koreans win. Additionally, Koreans are rarely eliminated by non-Koreans. Then we have Blizzcon, where a Korean won in SC2. Granted, another Korean was eliminated by a non-Korean. You could also say the qualifying Koreans were not the best but they did win a tournament full of the big names (I think? someone alleged this but I have not seen anything else about this tournament). So I think there is a smaller skill-gap but it might be getting bigger. WCG and Blizzcon are very, very small tournaments. You'll never be able to conclusively prove anything unless you actually put nearly every player into a LAN and have them play every matchup and even then it will only be true for that specific time. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
pro points are very relevant, and I think top 16 or 32 get points | ||
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
On November 09 2010 03:38 BraveGhost wrote: pro points are very relevant, and I think top 16 or 32 get points The issue is that all the 5/6 player and 7/8 player play matches to determine their placing. The 9-32nd players don't play placement matches. It would be impossible to put them into a list. | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
SCV's complement MM army so well and when they die it means less than when a probe or drone dies because of mules. When a protoss attacks a terran base, he usually needs either mass force fields or well-defended colossi or storms, otherwise scv's are going to turn the tide quite quickly. For a while now the panic defense of terrans in tvp is not amazing to me anymore because it's all easily explained. But then my awareness of how much momentum I need when I attack into a terran base definitely made me too cautious on kulas, for example. | ||
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Jakalo
Latvia2350 Posts
On November 09 2010 03:34 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: This is a good point, but you could say the same for Brood War, yet whenever Koreans come to a WCG, which is made up of mostly non-Koreans, the Koreans win. Additionally, Koreans are rarely eliminated by non-Koreans. Then we have Blizzcon, where a Korean won in SC2. Granted, another Korean was eliminated by a non-Korean. You could also say the qualifying Koreans were not the best but they did win a tournament full of the big names (I think? someone alleged this but I have not seen anything else about this tournament). So I think there is a smaller skill-gap but it might be getting bigger. The point is that top foreigners are on the same level or at least very close to top Koreans while in BW Koreans have ascended. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
On November 09 2010 03:29 Sixes wrote: Actually I think it also shows a difference in play style. Idra, like many of the top Korean players, is vulnerable to a timing attack or cheese he has not scouted or misinterpreted but has very solid macro play. The MLG had a lot of cheese and 1 trick pony type play whereas the top Koreans (not the Ro64 GSL but later) tend to be almost all macro games as solid macro play wins more consistently. I think we will see this evolution in MLG as well eventually. There are very good foreign players and I look forward to seeing them join in GSL as well but we will see when one of them starts winning against the top Koreans. I've seen this throughout the last couple of pages a lot. I don't understand where this is coming from, was I watching a different tourny or something? I've seen every game this past GSL and timing attacks especially were extremely prevalent in a number of gosu koreans play. Personally I don't really care whether I'm watching 2 koreans or 2 foreigners in the GSL finals. Hell, I've been watching koreans duke it out in scbw for so many years why would I possibly care. | ||
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
On November 09 2010 03:46 Liquid`Tyler wrote: I said to painuser that scv and mules are really strong and he made a nice map pick and gl in the tournament. SCV's complement MM army so well and when they die it means less than when a probe or drone dies because of mules. When a protoss attacks a terran base, he usually needs either mass force fields or well-defended colossi or storms, otherwise scv's are going to turn the tide quite quickly. For a while now the panic defense of terrans in tvp is not amazing to me anymore because it's all easily explained. But then my awareness of how much momentum I need when I attack into a terran base definitely made me too cautious on kulas, for example. Very well said indeed. I was extremely happy when SCVs got the HP nerf for SC2. Maybe I wasn't the only one whispering in Blizz's ear about it. The thing is, as it stands now is there anything to be done? MM is high dps ranged and Mules are Mules.... Would Blizzard consider a slight reduction in Mule time so less $$ is harvested? While I'm here, congrats to Jinro and everyone who had a good showing at the tournament! Can't wait to watch all the replays. | ||
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