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Skuller
Profile Joined September 2010
United States197 Posts
October 31 2010 21:13 GMT
#1161
I could be wrong, but I think LzGamer's default play recently has been the mass banshee + marine build. However, he probably has been watching slush's games and realized that this build was really hard countered by muta-ling. In theory, thors against mutas and mass helions against lings makes sense. I think his thinking was sound, he probably just doesn't use this build as much and therefore needs a bit more practice with choosing the positioning of fights. Slush's play makes it seems like banelings counter everything. However, its just like Day9 said, banelings are really good against clustered units. So if the army had a bit more spread, I think it would have gone completely different.

-This coming from a very amateur viewer of replays. I do not contend that I know more than lzgamer (obviously he is better), just trying to get into his mindset to make myself a better gamer.
FindingPride
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1001 Posts
October 31 2010 21:20 GMT
#1162
On November 01 2010 06:13 Skuller wrote:
I could be wrong, but I think LzGamer's default play recently has been the mass banshee + marine build. However, he probably has been watching slush's games and realized that this build was really hard countered by muta-ling. In theory, thors against mutas and mass helions against lings makes sense. I think his thinking was sound, he probably just doesn't use this build as much and therefore needs a bit more practice with choosing the positioning of fights. Slush's play makes it seems like banelings counter everything. However, its just like Day9 said, banelings are really good against clustered units. So if the army had a bit more spread, I think it would have gone completely different.

-This coming from a very amateur viewer of replays. I do not contend that I know more than lzgamer (obviously he is better), just trying to get into his mindset to make myself a better gamer.

The marauder Thor Build is quite powerful, i agree he needed some hellions sooner but If he had made marines the banelings would just mopped up to easily despite any micro as the goal is to push in zerg territory and hurt some eco. forcing him to fight banelings with the speed bonus. Also another thing to keep in mind is the power of zerg to lose an army then make 36+ roaches in an instant at that point in the game which could be devastating to a marine thor army.
ffdestiny
Profile Joined September 2010
United States773 Posts
October 31 2010 21:20 GMT
#1163
And Lz loses his whole expensive tank army with marines to muta/ling/bane. Good tips guys, guess it works so much better!
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
October 31 2010 21:20 GMT
#1164
On November 01 2010 06:13 MrCon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2010 06:08 cocosoft wrote:
On November 01 2010 06:01 MrCon wrote:
On November 01 2010 05:59 Corrupted wrote:
On November 01 2010 05:58 MrCon wrote:
thors and marauders against mass lings, lz is a terran caricature :/


lol...you say that like it matters what he does.

I don't understand. Isn't the game based on the fact that what you are doing matters ?

I'm pretty sure you understand what he says. He implies that marines wouldn't be viable as slush would just go banelings.

But lz really could've gone blue flame hellions, and even try tanks or maybe heavy air play.

But you WANT banelings. Banelings are gas and larva heavy ! Good marine split/micro make marine "good" against banes. (by "good" I mean they will waste a lot of ressources to kill your cheap and quick made marines)
It's the same spirit than SK Terran in SC1. It's like terran in sc1 said "oh, they have lurkers, I can't make marine". The thing is with marines you can outmacro the zerg. And out map control him.

I know it's counter intuitive.


You're half right... When you add baneling speed on creep or if the zerg decides to go infestors the scales tip a lot though. I know you're still resource sinking the zerg a bit, but you're also not winning the encounter enough to retain map control. The map control just isn't there because even just zergling surrounds w/o banelings will do well for the zerg.

ps: lol @ game 1. Not a perfect example but it'll do.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
TheFinalWord
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia790 Posts
October 31 2010 21:21 GMT
#1165
Onesided ownage. I guess the opening just wasn't viable.
HwangjaeTerran
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Finland5967 Posts
October 31 2010 21:21 GMT
#1166
Why not drop the gold expansion? IMO keeping that from mining would´ve been on high priority.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/*tlusernamehere*/
fidelity
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden410 Posts
October 31 2010 21:21 GMT
#1167
On November 01 2010 06:20 ffdestiny wrote:
And Lz loses his whole expensive tank army with marines to muta/ling/bane. Good tips guys, guess it works so much better!


Engaging in a narrow passage after being way to passive with too few tanks wasn't the tip.
Yrq
Profile Joined August 2010
Iceland88 Posts
October 31 2010 21:22 GMT
#1168
On November 01 2010 06:20 ffdestiny wrote:
And Lz loses his whole expensive tank army with marines to muta/ling/bane. Good tips guys, guess it works so much better!

check IMmvp vs oGsZenio out in the GSL.
Xxavi
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1248 Posts
October 31 2010 21:22 GMT
#1169
If drewbie cannot win against Protoss, it seems LZ has problem with Zerg. Cannot believe how passive he is. It is going to be extra difficult if you are getting outnumbered that much and you wait until Zerg expands all over the place and macros.

cocosoft
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden1068 Posts
October 31 2010 21:22 GMT
#1170
On November 01 2010 06:21 TheFinalWord wrote:
Onesided ownage. I guess the opening just wasn't viable.

Not sure... the opening seemed really viable... but the follow up didn't work out so well.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
October 31 2010 21:23 GMT
#1171
Why attack through the most narrow part of the map when what you need more than anything vs muta baneling is space? It's illogical
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-31 21:26:15
October 31 2010 21:24 GMT
#1172
On November 01 2010 06:20 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2010 06:13 MrCon wrote:
On November 01 2010 06:08 cocosoft wrote:
On November 01 2010 06:01 MrCon wrote:
On November 01 2010 05:59 Corrupted wrote:
On November 01 2010 05:58 MrCon wrote:
thors and marauders against mass lings, lz is a terran caricature :/


lol...you say that like it matters what he does.

I don't understand. Isn't the game based on the fact that what you are doing matters ?

I'm pretty sure you understand what he says. He implies that marines wouldn't be viable as slush would just go banelings.

But lz really could've gone blue flame hellions, and even try tanks or maybe heavy air play.

But you WANT banelings. Banelings are gas and larva heavy ! Good marine split/micro make marine "good" against banes. (by "good" I mean they will waste a lot of ressources to kill your cheap and quick made marines)
It's the same spirit than SK Terran in SC1. It's like terran in sc1 said "oh, they have lurkers, I can't make marine". The thing is with marines you can outmacro the zerg. And out map control him.

I know it's counter intuitive.


You're half right... When you add baneling speed on creep or if the zerg decides to go infestors the scales tip a lot though. I know you're still resource sinking the zerg a bit, but you're also not winning the encounter enough to retain map control. The map control just isn't there because even just zergling surrounds w/o banelings will do well for the zerg.

ps: lol @ game 1. Not a perfect example but it'll do.

yeah, but he should send multiple squads and non stop attack. When he lost his army he should have had the same army already remade at his base, instead he had 2000 minerals and 5 idle rax.
He is still in the "mass and big push" spirit. That's not the way to go against zerg. (there can be multiple play styles obviously, but the style where you aren't applying any pressure at the zerg AND not heavy macroing at the same time can't work imo)
And of course his lack of marine micro didn't help either.
Wayem
Profile Joined May 2010
France455 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-31 21:26:21
October 31 2010 21:26 GMT
#1173
lol @ 6pool :D

those series are so fun... good stream, good players and good casters... what else ?
"who needs micro when you can have more stuff ?" -day9
Firereaver
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
India1701 Posts
October 31 2010 21:26 GMT
#1174
Machine with nice ling- micro!? Yeah to fail-focus down a barracks.
"They drone drone drone , me win" - JangMinChul(Iron/oGsMC)
ffdestiny
Profile Joined September 2010
United States773 Posts
October 31 2010 21:31 GMT
#1175
Lz picked that map because it's Machine's worst map.
Firereaver
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
India1701 Posts
October 31 2010 21:31 GMT
#1176
On November 01 2010 06:26 Wayem wrote:
lol @ 6pool :D

those series are so fun... good stream, good players and good casters... what else ?

NOt satisfied with Wheats knowledge... He's quite smooth though. Like a caucasion Jason Lee..
"They drone drone drone , me win" - JangMinChul(Iron/oGsMC)
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
October 31 2010 21:33 GMT
#1177
On November 01 2010 06:31 Firereaver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2010 06:26 Wayem wrote:
lol @ 6pool :D

those series are so fun... good stream, good players and good casters... what else ?

NOt satisfied with Wheats knowledge... He's quite smooth though. Like a caucasion Jason Lee..


Everybody knows Wheat's insight isn't exactly mind blowing. He does what he's supposed to do and has great synergy with Day9.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
October 31 2010 21:33 GMT
#1178
On November 01 2010 06:31 Firereaver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2010 06:26 Wayem wrote:
lol @ 6pool :D

those series are so fun... good stream, good players and good casters... what else ?

NOt satisfied with Wheats knowledge... He's quite smooth though. Like a caucasion Jason Lee..


Wheat is A LOOOOOOOOT better than Jason Lee.Wheat is an awesome caster.
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-31 21:34:40
October 31 2010 21:34 GMT
#1179
Was that a kitten?

Screw Starcraft, show us the kitten!
Firereaver
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
India1701 Posts
October 31 2010 21:34 GMT
#1180
Meow!! Cella around??
"They drone drone drone , me win" - JangMinChul(Iron/oGsMC)
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