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On September 15 2010 23:08 st3roids wrote:
U got to have balance posts in a tournament apparently is like watching a football match and the referee is blatantly helping the one team regardless how good or not the teams will play ur gonna have to discuss it.
same is here imbalances are the helping referee and zerg dont get any
That racist referee is named Dustin Browder
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On September 15 2010 22:57 Ascorius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 22:13 The_DjiN wrote:
Going broodlords was surely a mistake. he could have 3 or 4 ultralisks for nearly the same cost, which would have helped out against those forcefields alot. Also missing the hidden expo was just a big blunder. Not really, he already had spiretech and corruptors out. Broodlords was a much better choice in that situation. The ultras would have taken forever to get also.... stop with the "if he had that unit at that point he would have dont much better" logic. Look at the big picture. Ultras would have taken too much time, and would have cost him more. @Piegasm: I wouldnt call IdrA a one trick pony. He plays solid macro yes. But he will always attack when he has an opening. The game versus Tarson is a good example, the first game in the series today is also a good example. And he has the reputation of never cheesing or going all in. But thats not being a one trick pony. If that was the case you could call most BW pro's for one trick ponies.
One trick pony was possibly not the best term. I just meant that opponents are generally pretty comfortable with the idea that IdrA wants to sit back and macro and thus they don't feel the need to play very defensively. The game versus Tarson was out of the ordinary for IdrA, IMO. It seemed like he was being outright aggressive as opposed to simply opportunistic. It's pretty clear that it's rare enough that his opponents don't feel the need to alter their strategy to account for it. To continue the basketball analagy: it's as if Shaquille Oneal were to make a 3-pointer to win a game. Shaq's team wins that game but the rest of the league isn't going to decide they need to defend differently against him in the future.
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On September 15 2010 23:01 st3roids wrote:
I cant believe the f$ucking ignorance here from non zerg players even so called pros .
so aparently making a mistake as a zerg will cost a game.
Watch the toss or terran players they do x10 more mistakes than the zerg ones but they dont get punished or the lack of creativity - every terran massing mmm how innovating so far ;p -
Just because u forget in the heat of the battle to scout a base or cause u got a lucky snap in the muta den doesnt mean that zerg should loose the game .
Is like telling me som1 snipe a single baracks and terran lost the game cause of that.
How many times protoss or terrna players dont scout a zerg expansion - do they loose cause of that ? hardly ever
Try play zerg b4 u start the bs no race should get punished like that for a single mistake.
Thing is zerg lacking badly and getting cheese so easy vs air proxies ,thats why they getting owned not becaue of a misscouting or a 20 sec delayed expansion or any other lame excusse u try to make to justify an easy toss or terran win.
Missing hidden expo is a big mistake that cost you games, no matter what race you play.
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On September 15 2010 23:22 Fa1nT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 23:08 st3roids wrote:
U got to have balance posts in a tournament apparently is like watching a football match and the referee is blatantly helping the one team regardless how good or not the teams will play ur gonna have to discuss it.
same is here imbalances are the helping referee and zerg dont get any That racist referee is named Dustin Browder
Its more like the desicion to make sc2 a trilogy - sacrifice game experience for sales its stadar play nowdays
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On September 15 2010 23:19 st3roids wrote:
So aparently all zerg players are bad and terrans massing mmm or early reapers are great and innovating and all.
Same with vray proxies.
id like to see the same bs - aka he missed a scout or he didnt kill that unit and lost the game bs - when check and cool gets eliminated due to an air proxy or massing mm ,or somehting else lame.
Yeah, apparently there is always a good reason for why a top notch Z player looses to someone. I am starting to think that all T and P players are just better.... or maybe there is something completely wrong with the picture here.
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Idra loses game 2 to proxy void rays and his face still shows no emotion, gotta love Idra.
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On September 15 2010 23:14 MrCon wrote:
- blaming imbalance on game 2 now. There obviously is, as blizzard will nerf reapers. But the Z made 5 roachs then stoped. Perhaps he was too busy making his expansion over and over again with absolutly no chance of securing it. Yeah, he could have made a second queen to spread creep toward his nat so he can at least fight on creep. But no, reapers are so imba than they'll make people becoming stupid. Perhaps he could have made more than 5 roaches whole game and wait for more creep and roach speed to expand. But no, it's so imbalanced that people lose their common sense. Better losing right now so I can expand right now, right.
You have no idea how zerg make units or where extra queens come from, do you? You're suggesting that due to the reaper threat, the zerg should wait to expand until tier 2, roach speed, and creep spread.
Yes, that would probably allow him to control his expansion. You realize, however, that while Maka was pushing with the reapers, he was taking an expansion himself? If terran gets ahead zerg in expansions, it's already over. That's why the zerg kept trying to take the expo, if he doesnt, he loses. There is no zerg 1 base play against 2 base terran.
I mostly main zerg, but I play the other races as well. There is an undeniable imbalance. However, the Zerg whining is doing nothing but discrediting the argument. Idra lost because of imba? Are you kidding me? I dont want to speak up about imbalance for fear of sounding like one of you idiots.
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On September 15 2010 23:19 st3roids wrote:
So aparently all zerg players are bad and terrans massing mmm or early reapers are great and innovating and all.
Same with vray proxies.
id like to see the same bs - aka he missed a scout or he didnt kill that unit and lost the game bs - when check and cool gets eliminated due to an air proxy or massing mm ,or somehting else lame.
now imagine if zerg could mass roaches hydras in every single game from a wallin base and win tournaments , that would be something
Terran has always been about defending and macroing and pushing at a certain timing (or just go for 200/200) even in broodwar so i dont see what you're complaining about
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On September 15 2010 23:25 Ascorius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 23:19 st3roids wrote:
So aparently all zerg players are bad and terrans massing mmm or early reapers are great and innovating and all.
Same with vray proxies.
id like to see the same bs - aka he missed a scout or he didnt kill that unit and lost the game bs - when check and cool gets eliminated due to an air proxy or massing mm ,or somehting else lame. Yeah, apparently there is always a good reason for why a top notch Z player looses to someone. I am starting to think that all T and P players are just better.... or maybe there is something completely wrong with the picture here.
yeah that's sick, most games are winned or losed because of a reason.
But I sorta agree with you, the day we'll not be able to find a reason, then we'll be able to blame balance. (as in game 2 of maka)
As long as we're able to see a crucial mistake that cost you the game, talking about balance is not relevant.
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On September 15 2010 23:29 chumpchous wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 23:14 MrCon wrote:
- blaming imbalance on game 2 now. There obviously is, as blizzard will nerf reapers. But the Z made 5 roachs then stoped. Perhaps he was too busy making his expansion over and over again with absolutly no chance of securing it. Yeah, he could have made a second queen to spread creep toward his nat so he can at least fight on creep. But no, reapers are so imba than they'll make people becoming stupid. Perhaps he could have made more than 5 roaches whole game and wait for more creep and roach speed to expand. But no, it's so imbalanced that people lose their common sense. Better losing right now so I can expand right now, right.
You have no idea how zerg make units or where extra queens come from, do you? You're suggesting that due to the reaper threat, the zerg should wait to expand until tier 2, roach speed, and creep spread. Yes, that would probably allow him to control his expansion. You realize, however, that while Maka was pushing with the reapers, he was taking an expansion himself? If terran gets ahead zerg in expansions, it's already over. That's why the zerg kept trying to take the expo, if he doesnt, he loses. There is no zerg 1 base play against 2 base terran.
I agree with that. I just feel like it's stupid to prefer a certain loss over having a (small) chance.
edit : (to be clear, I agree that reapers are ridiculous)
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IdrA 
/cry
0 zerg's in ro32 so far, yaaay. -.- There's like, 5 left? out of 24 people.
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A critical mistake for a zerg player is EXTREMELY easy to make
Terrans can do crap like let medivacs full of marauders die, roaches unburrow under them, and getting out micro'ed, All of these are critical, and still pull out wins.
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On September 15 2010 23:31 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 23:25 Ascorius wrote:On September 15 2010 23:19 st3roids wrote:
So aparently all zerg players are bad and terrans massing mmm or early reapers are great and innovating and all.
Same with vray proxies.
id like to see the same bs - aka he missed a scout or he didnt kill that unit and lost the game bs - when check and cool gets eliminated due to an air proxy or massing mm ,or somehting else lame. Yeah, apparently there is always a good reason for why a top notch Z player looses to someone. I am starting to think that all T and P players are just better.... or maybe there is something completely wrong with the picture here. yeah that's sick, most games are winned or losed because of a reason. But I sorta agree with you, the day we'll not be able to find a reason, then we'll be able to blame balance. As long as we're able to see a crucial mistake that cost you the game, talking about balance is not relevant.
I disagree. T and P (to a lesser extent) can make so many mistakes and still win a better Z player making less mistake is where the imbalance is.
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On September 15 2010 21:19 diehilde wrote:
with Z its like being in a boxmatch and having ur arms cut off, ur only chance of winning is dodging every move he has until he finally falls over from exhaustion.
this is the PERFECT definition of what its like to play zerg LOL
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Maka won that first game because that last major engagement Jookto accidentally ran all this mutas into the thor which ripped them into shreds within seconds. Maaaaaaaaaybe this is the one costly mistake. It's unfortunate as I think he played that game brilliantly, but Maka will definitely take every little mistake and throw it at you.
I think IdrA lost game 3 after being tilted in game 2. Honestly I'm a little saddened IdrA tried to use his opponent's build order against him. Of all the games I've seen of IdrA, he's always scouted out proxies, and has the uncanny ability to have an overlord at every possible expansion on the map spewing creep. As much as I dislike his attitude, he's always been a fundamentally strong player, and to see him slipping on things he normally does subconsciously makes me believe that 1. he got a bit tunnel visioned playing the second set, and 2. that loss really affected his gameplay in the third set. I'm sure though that after he gets over it he'll learn from his mistake.
In general the RO32 games have been sooooo awesome, even the TvT which is usually pretty dry had a bit more flair than usual. Can't wait for the rest of the tournament, and definitely can't wait for next season when the players become even MORE refined!
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On September 15 2010 23:38 Providence wrote:
In general the RO32 games have been sooooo awesome, even the TvT which is usually pretty dry had a bit more flair than usual. Can't wait for the rest of the tournament, and definitely can't wait for next season when the players become even MORE refined!
Oh yeah, and thinking the games will be more and more good as the tourney advance is just awesome.
For the first time today I had the same feeling and excitement watching sc2 games as I have watching bw games.
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On September 15 2010 23:34 ohN wrote:IdrA /cry 0 zerg's in ro32 so far, yaaay. -.- There's like, 5 left? out of 24 people.
4.
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On September 15 2010 23:14 MrCon wrote:- blaming imbalance for first maka win : same thing. People are sayigng "he lost his gold and made mistakes but only one mistake from the zerg and it's gg §§§" Not, he didn't lost his gold. The z put his gold in red health then leaved. Too bad, those imba terrans can repear their buildings So 1mn after this expansion was "destroyed", it was up and running again. That was a critical mistake.
The obs didn't show the expo going down, but if you looked at minimap, Z killed it before taking out the 4 raxes. Don't talk when you have like gold-level map awareness while watching the game.
On September 15 2010 23:14 MrCon wrote:
On mitsakes, what were exactly the majors terran's mistakes ? Losing some minor battles and taking a lot of z units ? Perhaps going from 20+ to 4 mutas while not looking was a much bigger mistake ? Ho noes that was imbalance, right. Then losing all those roaches killing 2 marines was imbalance too. There is imbalance in sc2, but this TvZ is not displaying any.
Wait, so Terran going down to close to ZERO units is only losing a minor battle? Losing 6 production buildings and a gold expo is a tiny loss right? Cognitive dissonance much? Let's see... mistakes by the Terran:
-Building 4 raxes out in the middle of nowhere.
-Taking an expo so far out in the map and not turning it into a planetary
-Attacking with purely marines/medivacs when he knows Z has banelings, which led to him losing the gold
-Having 2 thors by themselves with no marine or turret support so they get sniped by mutas
-Throwing away medivacs full of marines by dropping Z main without doing much damage (each one is 500/100)
All of these would be critical mistakes if they came from the Z side. But oh he's a T, so they're only minor mistakes.
The only mistake that Zerg really made was not making banelings for the marines. However, he must've thought that after taking down FOUR raxes, Maka would be switching over to mostly mech. Now if Maka went pure mech and he went banelings instead of roach, Z would be toast. So it was a tricky decision for Z to make and he made the wrong one and lost the game. Engaging the army was a mistake, but even if he did not engage it, Terran was already closing in on the Z's gold base. After sniping all of the drones at Z's natural, if he then lost the gold expo, Z would basically be dead due to crippled economy (1 base of drones vs 2 saturated T).
- blaming imbalance on game 2 now. There obviously is, as blizzard will nerf reapers. But the Z made 5 roachs then stoped. Perhaps he was too busy making his expansion over and over again with absolutly no chance of securing it. Yeah, he could have made a second queen to spread creep toward his nat so he can at least fight on creep. But no, reapers are so imba than they'll make people becoming stupid. Perhaps he could have made more than 5 roaches whole game and wait for more creep and roach speed to expand. But no, it's so imbalanced that people lose their common sense. Better losing right now so I can expand right now, right.
No comment.
I do agree that the IdrA games didn't exactly show imbalance, but not many people think ZvP is that imba anyways.. The only thing it shows is that IdrA fell for mindgames and failed to scout a key hidden expo.
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TankboyPrime's micro is probably the best I have seen to date. That amazing-ness almost made up for the fact IdrA is no longer with us. It makes it hard to keep trying to play zerg when one of the best mechanical players around now is having a hard time competing at the top level. What chance do I have!?!?!
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On September 15 2010 18:59 SuperXlax wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 18:57 Lefnui wrote:On September 15 2010 18:55 KiWiKaKi wrote:
idra owned , pro scouting On September 15 2010 18:55 drewbie.root wrote:
hahahaha idra got pwned, what a donk he dont even scout expos T_T I wonder how you two would have done. Root gaming has a stick in their butt. :|
Idra trash talks both of them constantly, so he's lost all reason to expect any respect from them.
Happy exit from the tourney Idra, nice scouting. Fucking love watching him lose
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EPT
