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On September 03 2010 18:36 Innsmouth-Zerg wrote:
There would be no "Pro Gamers" no tournaments with big money output without a community "fans" behind them, and wanting to watch there games/replays.
Pro Gamers are nothing but "freaks" without a community supporting them.
It's the same with religion, believe in something strange and find 10 followers, you are a cult. Believe in something strange and find several million followers, and you are a religion.
But that aside, your argument is incredibly illogical anyway because what do you think is a stream or a VOD doing hmm?
If we would follow your logic it means no stream, no VOD's until the tournament is over.
GG you got beat by your own logic.
VODs/Streams are completely different. They do not show every move made by the player and the exact timings of things. If another player were to buy replays from Gom it would be a huge lack of integrity on their part. A player's competitive advantage would be completely lost.
Basically what you are saying is, because you are a fan, you are obligated to get whatever you want so long as you want to pay. Try putting yourself in the player's shoes for a moment: would you want GOM to sell YOUR replays to other so they can copy/analyze and potentially use it against you?
Furthermore, with the decision that Gom wants to charge for vods/streams they apparently think they CAN run a large tournament without the fan support. Gom has already committed over 1 billion won to run GSL during the entire 2011 year. None of this money has come from your pocket or anyone on teamliquid.
You do come off as a spoiled, selfish brat.
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On September 03 2010 18:43 Ianuus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2010 18:36 machinebloodprogram wrote:On September 03 2010 18:31 Ianuus wrote:On September 03 2010 18:17 Innsmouth-Zerg wrote:
I'm not "incredibly spoiled". I want replays so i can watch games that are not cast, so i can if i want to, listen to the commentary but move the mouse myself in the game.
I don't care about what the BW community got, this is SC2, this is my money.
Yes you are. The players are not obliged to reveal their strategies and mechanics to the world. This isn't about you or your money, this is about the pro players and what they deserve. To think that this matter is about you means you're increadibly spoiled. Wouldn't being able to review and study other strategies benefit the competitive scene rather than hinder it? It's done in nearly every sport. That's what vods are for. You're just not allowed a free pass into the players' brains. Show nested quote +On September 03 2010 18:36 Innsmouth-Zerg wrote:
There would be no "Pro Gamers" no tournaments with big money output without a community "fans" behind them, and wanting to watch there games/replays.
Pro Gamers are nothing but "freaks" without a community supporting them.
It's the same with religion, believe in something strange and find 10 followers, you are a cult. Believe in something strange and find several million followers, and you are a religion.
But that aside, your argument is incredibly illogical anyway because what do you think is a stream or a VOD doing hmm?
If we would follow your logic it means no stream, no VOD's until the tournament is over.
GG you got beat by your own logic. Yeah, and the BW community got on fine without needing the replays of the progamers. Streams and vods are fine. I'd even say that replays without the players' PoV views are fine too. But when you add in the player's PoV camera, then it's too much. You just took my logic, twisted it into your own, and then sprouted a bunch of rubbish that obviously doesn't follow on from what I say. It's far from GG. Also, their* games/replays.
As i said, i don't care about the BW community at all, this is SC2 now, we are in 2010.
If you think I'm spoiled because ESL gave us all replays from there games which i payed for to see in a "good" quality than so be it. For me it's a "standard".
I took your way of thinking and moved ahead with it to the unavoidable end.
If replays are bad because they spoil tactics, so are steam's and VOD's bad because they spoil the tactics in nearly the same way (you even get a narrator who tells you what both players are doing and why).
It's not my fault you are incapable of following the path or your own logic.
You are just bending it to neatly fit in your so called "argument" against replays which only consists of:
"We didn't have it in the past so why would you want it now!" Which is a incredibly stupid argument and
"Replays give away too much of the players tactics" which would consequently also mean that stream's and VOD's are bad.
GG
edit: writing :x
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It seems my connection to their server has jumped up to 18000 kbps in the past 24 hours, so that's a nice development. Still have the problem of outrageous price and terrible video quality.
That said, I think I would pay $20 for live (which I would probably not even use, football season just started and I'm spending all weekend on that, I don't need to be staying up til 7 AM as well) + VODs. For me, the real treat here is the ability to have Tasteless and Artosis cast so that kind of overcomes of the video quality. It would be could if I could read mineral/gas/food count at least, and maybe have some idea what types of units the blobs are, as well as to whom they belong.
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On September 03 2010 18:59 Innsmouth-Zerg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2010 18:43 Ianuus wrote:On September 03 2010 18:36 machinebloodprogram wrote:On September 03 2010 18:31 Ianuus wrote:On September 03 2010 18:17 Innsmouth-Zerg wrote:
I'm not "incredibly spoiled". I want replays so i can watch games that are not cast, so i can if i want to, listen to the commentary but move the mouse myself in the game.
I don't care about what the BW community got, this is SC2, this is my money.
Yes you are. The players are not obliged to reveal their strategies and mechanics to the world. This isn't about you or your money, this is about the pro players and what they deserve. To think that this matter is about you means you're increadibly spoiled. Wouldn't being able to review and study other strategies benefit the competitive scene rather than hinder it? It's done in nearly every sport. That's what vods are for. You're just not allowed a free pass into the players' brains. On September 03 2010 18:36 Innsmouth-Zerg wrote:
There would be no "Pro Gamers" no tournaments with big money output without a community "fans" behind them, and wanting to watch there games/replays.
Pro Gamers are nothing but "freaks" without a community supporting them.
It's the same with religion, believe in something strange and find 10 followers, you are a cult. Believe in something strange and find several million followers, and you are a religion.
But that aside, your argument is incredibly illogical anyway because what do you think is a stream or a VOD doing hmm?
If we would follow your logic it means no stream, no VOD's until the tournament is over.
GG you got beat by your own logic. Yeah, and the BW community got on fine without needing the replays of the progamers. Streams and vods are fine. I'd even say that replays without the players' PoV views are fine too. But when you add in the player's PoV camera, then it's too much. You just took my logic, twisted it into your own, and then sprouted a bunch of rubbish that obviously doesn't follow on from what I say. It's far from GG. Also, their* games/replays. As i said, i don't care about the BW community at all, this is SC2 now, we are in 2010. If you think I'm spoiled because ESL gave us all replays from there games which i payed for to see in a "good" quality than so be it. For me it's a "standard". I took your way of thinking and moved ahead with it to the unavoidable end. If replays are bad because they spoil tactics, so are steam's and VOD's bad because they spoil the tactics in nearly the same way (you even get a narrator who tells you what both players are doing and why). It's not my fault you are incapable of following the path or your own logic. You are just bending it to neatly fit in your so called "argument" against replays which only consists of: "We didn't have it in the past so why would you want it now!" Which is a incredibly stupid argument and "Replays give away too much of the plays tactics" which would consequently also mean that steam's and VOD's are bad. GG
No, progamers were basically forbidden to give out replays because of the reasons I indicated. It is not that we didn't have them, we routinely got packs from some of the top foreigner players, but foreigner players also don't play in the same atmosphere progamers do. I will repeat: this is a $200K tournament, it is very important for the players to keep every strategic advantage they get.
For the last time, vods do not give out even close to the same level of information replays do.
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VOD's give out a good amount of info which a "Pro Gamer" could use to figure out the rest IMHO, but thats only speculation....
May i remind you of WC3, replays are not big problem there afaik.
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Wauw what a massive letdown  dont know if i will pay for it.
they could atleast make free LQ stream and a fee for HQ stream without ads or something
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On September 03 2010 18:59 Innsmouth-Zerg wrote:
I took your way of thinking and moved ahead with it to the unavoidable end.
If replays are bad because they spoil tactics, so are steam's and VOD's bad because they spoil the tactics in nearly the same way (you even get a narrator who tells you what both players are doing and why).
"We didn't have it in the past so why would you want it now!" Which is a incredibly stupid argument and
"Replays give away too much of the players tactics" which would consequently also mean that stream's and VOD's are bad.
First point - I mentioned BW in reference to the community, not the replay issue. It is you who cannot follow my arguments, thus leading you to make some rather idiotic conclusions about what I'm saying.
Second point - all I'm hearing from you is "replays = vods = streams", with respect to the amount of strategy you can glean from them; that is, politely put, retarded.
As for moving my argument to the inevitable end, may I introduce you do http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html ?
Also, "replays from all their* games".
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Restream ftw, $20 for a month of starcraft with mostly foreign players (for us europeans) is just crazy.
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On September 03 2010 19:20 Ianuus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2010 18:59 Innsmouth-Zerg wrote:
I took your way of thinking and moved ahead with it to the unavoidable end.
If replays are bad because they spoil tactics, so are steam's and VOD's bad because they spoil the tactics in nearly the same way (you even get a narrator who tells you what both players are doing and why).
"We didn't have it in the past so why would you want it now!" Which is a incredibly stupid argument and
"Replays give away too much of the players tactics" which would consequently also mean that stream's and VOD's are bad.
First point - I mentioned BW in reference to the community, not the replay issue. It is you who cannot follow my arguments, thus leading you to make some rather idiotic conclusions about what I'm saying. Second point - all I'm hearing from you is "replays = vods = streams", with respect to the amount of strategy you can glean from them; that is, politely put, retarded. As for moving my argument to the inevitable end, may I introduce you do http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html ? Also, "replays from all their* games".
BW obviously has a different community than SC2 so whats the point? Right, there is none.
Secondly, you can't read, i never said replays are the same as streams and vods, but you can extract from vods and streams enough information to figure out what is going on from a tactical position and you can work on the "timings" yourself if you have a little spare time, It is you who cannot follow an argument obviously.
But this discussion is becoming rather worthless anyway for the facts remains that without replays i will not pay, thats all that i wanted to say in my initial post anyway 
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Will the first set with IdrA be free of charge to watch??
I've read something about that but just don't a confirmation if I should plan for tomorrow or if I can forget about it entirely.
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actually maybe i would pay for it if they put VOD and HQ livecast together for like 20USD or something
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It seems like GOM is listening to the community. I just received the following e-mail (I added bold for emphasis):
Dear our valued user,
This is GOMtv.net Support Team.
We’ve found you purchased Season Live ticket($19.95) via Paypal and we are sending this email to inform you very important issues.
We are sorry to say this, however, we would like to let you know this information as soon as possible.
As you know, we do not have free streaming service on GOMtv.net.
Since our service has been opened to public, lots of e-sports fans have requested for the free streaming service.
We’ve thought this issue over for the last few days and we’ve decided to release the free service for the users.
Therefore, we will service 1 season premium ticket which includes VOD service and Premium Live service, and the price will be $19.95.
With premium ticket, you can watch High Quality(500K) streaming live matches and VODs.
Free service is the Standard Quality(below 250K) streaming live only, with no VODs.
You can ask a refund if you are not happy with this new premium service.
However, if you keep your purchase, we will reward you the premium ticket for 3 pre-seasons which is valid for all season in this year.
Please reply to this email if you want to refund your VOD ticket before the first live broadcasting starts(at 7pm KST).
Otherwise, we will consider that you keep your purchase and accept the premium service for 3 pre-seasons.
Again, thank you for your purchase.
Sincerely,
GOMtv.net Support Team
It looks like still no free vods, but free LQ stream.
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So "premium" and VODs for $20 total? I can dig that. Quality is still poor but I understand that they're getting this started and there will be growing pains.
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YES!!! Team Liquid FIGHTINGGG
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Thank you GOM! Thank you!
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EPT
