wtf are you talking about, sen and maka didnt play so how can u make assumptions about something which didnt happen and check isnt best zerg where do u get this bs from lol

The Chinese dude implied they did play. Maybe they played in some tournaments we never heard about?

Azarkon

United States21060 Posts

May 26 2010 15:20 GMT

#2322

On May 27 2010 00:17 Prodtoss wrote:
Maka vs Cool on 17173showmatch is 3-3,let's looking forward the epic semi-final

Go over the showmatch on patch-11
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120295

That was in patch 11, however. Huge difference from patch 12 (roach nerf, T buffs), and 13 (more T buffs).

Azarkon

United States21060 Posts

May 26 2010 15:24 GMT

#2323

Maka's timing pushes against F91 basically shows me that he is fully exploiting all the recent buffs to Terran. He's not going pure mech, instead he's incorporating marines and marauders, which goes hand-in-hand with the cheaper bio research. He's using thors, which have become smaller and easier to use. He's exploiting the fact that Zerg can no longer make as many roaches by making more marines. And of course he has tanks to deal with any fast hydras and banelings.

It's a significantly different style of play from TLO, who goes almost pure mech, generally, with air support.

ilbh

Brazil1606 Posts

May 26 2010 15:29 GMT

#2324

On May 26 2010 23:13 hydraden wrote:

Show nested quote +

Do you think the game ever get to the point of infestors and blords?

infestors are tier 2 units, you can make the infestor pit when you have lair.

blords ok, you need hive...

Gescom

Canada3511 Posts

May 26 2010 15:31 GMT

#2325

Hellions Tanks and Thors feels like pretty pure mech to me. He just sorta overcompensated on marines after g1 when he threw the game away by not building enough AA.

TLO plays a little bit more versatile, adding on the starport to make use of viking or banshee if necessary. I think he also gets a big kick out playing flashy, I dont think he would play a game like makas g2 on steppes -- it just feels a bit cheesey.

Azarkon

United States21060 Posts

May 26 2010 15:33 GMT

#2326

On May 27 2010 00:31 Gescom wrote:
Hellions Tanks and Thors feels like pretty pure mech to me. He just sorta overcompensated on marines after g1 when he threw the game away by not building enough AA.

TLO plays a little bit more versatile, adding on the starport to make use of viking or banshee if necessary.

No, he had both marines and marauders. And stim. That's not pure mech by any means, and I happen to think that this was a centerpiece of his timing strategy as pure mech can be defeated by mass mutas even with the Thors defending, as Sen demonstrated against Demuslim.

Gescom

Canada3511 Posts

May 26 2010 15:36 GMT

#2327

I agree on the timing aspect. Really nice pushes on the FE in two of the games. Cant comment on the demuslim-sen games cause I havent watched them yet. I do know though that DeMuslim favours MMM and is inexperienced with mech.

ilbh

Brazil1606 Posts

May 26 2010 15:42 GMT

#2328

On May 27 2010 00:33 Azarkon wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yes, it wasn't pure mech, but sen BO against demuslin was completely different. he only got a expansion after his spire, while F91 always tried to fast expand

Azarkon

United States21060 Posts

May 26 2010 15:52 GMT

#2329

I think Sen's build orders are generally tighter and stronger against what he expects, which is mech timing, as just about every Terran is going mech or partial mech timing pushes these days. F91 seems out of the loop for the most part, as his builds clearly did not have enough units to deal with the timings.

But one thing I thought was interesting in the F91 match is how easily banelings melted to tanks. While F91 wasn't exactly keeping his banelings in a line, but instead had them in an oval which is bad against tanks, it still just goes out to show that Terran mech, even with an abundance of marines, is not weak against banelings at all. So I guess Day9's idea for countering mech probably won't work.

Gescom

Canada3511 Posts

May 26 2010 15:57 GMT

#2330

I think once you have 4+ tanks and 2+ thors you are no longer capable of fighting the army head-on without a food advantage and neural parasite OR tier3. Otherwise youd have to rely on guerilla tactics.

Seems like anyone going roach-based is losing past 90 food.

Azarkon

United States21060 Posts

May 26 2010 16:01 GMT

#2331

True, but the problem with guerilla tactics is that if the Terran expects it, he can defend against it. In the F91 games, Maka didn't typically reinforce his army until he was sure the Zerg army was gone. I thought this was a mistake on his part as some of his units were just idling in his base, but then I realized there was no reason why Maka wouldn't keep a part of his army in his base when the army he had was already so powerful. He's just keeping them there to stave off potential counters and drops.

koppik

United States676 Posts

May 26 2010 16:06 GMT

#2332

Yeah, Maka keeping units back in his base was to ward off drops/nyduses from the zerg, which a mech'ing terran is usually very weak against. It wasn't Maka essentially saying "you're a bad player, F91", like most of his other weird stuff was.

Gescom

Canada3511 Posts

May 26 2010 16:10 GMT

#2333

Definitely safe against a nydus, but a full on drop could have been moderately successful at some points.

edit -- just realized that Z has a lot of the same issues with a max food protoss army comprised of collusus stalker sentry zealot (see idra v whitera). Could definitely exploit that immobility with drops as well (like idra v nony and sen v whitera).

Obbalord

Germany166 Posts

May 26 2010 16:10 GMT

#2334

did maka use medivacs in game 2-4 ? Saw him several times just go 2 fax + bio and no medivacs so he could afford gasunits out from 2 fax, pls tell me!

And are there any replays or vods from it ?= (

Azarkon

United States21060 Posts

May 26 2010 16:16 GMT

#2335

Generally, no medivacs though he did do a medivac drop on Metalopolis. I think his timing was just as stim and combat shield finishes, with whatever number of tanks, marines, marauders, thors, and hellions he was able to mass in that time. It doesn't make much sense to get a lot of medivacs if you're not going pure bio.

Obbalord

Germany166 Posts

May 26 2010 16:24 GMT

#2336

ic, interesting, wonder if he upgrades bio AND mech? (attack/armor)

Three

Japan278 Posts

May 26 2010 16:46 GMT

#2337

From recent tournament it looks like the CURRENT strength of the players (which will be different in a week im sure) is something like this:

Protoss:
1. Newlife (shaky last games but seems really scary when confident)
2. Whitera
3. Tester

Terran:
1. Maka/TLO
2. Demuslim

Zerg (not nearly as sure about this):
1. Sen (minus zvz)/과일장수
2. Check/Dimaga/Freedom?

cuppatea

United Kingdom1401 Posts

May 26 2010 18:39 GMT

#2338

Looks like Cool is probably the best Zerg in the world and Maka the best Terran. I think whoever wins their semi will be favourite for the whole thing and if one of them wins the tournament they probably deserve to be recognised as the best SC2 player in the world right now. I guess you could say the same of the other 2 but their past results haven't been quite as impressive.

Sfydjklm

United States9218 Posts

May 26 2010 18:58 GMT

#2339

why cool? he hasnt looked as impressive so far as Dimaga or Check did. Given ofc he didnt really face as tough competition to show off his full potential.
in fact he looked outright mediocre vs PJ

cuppatea

United Kingdom1401 Posts

May 26 2010 19:14 GMT

#2340

On May 27 2010 03:58 Sfydjklm wrote:
why cool? he hasnt looked as impressive so far as Dimaga or Check did. Given ofc he didnt really face as tough competition to show off his full potential.
in fact he looked outright mediocre vs PJ

He won the PlayXP Brainbox LAN which featured a lot of the top players in Korea (Tester, Check, TheWind etc). He was also ranked #1 on the Asian ladder for a while with a 73% win ratio. Also, his name always seems to come up whenever one of the top Koreans is asked "who are the best players right now?"

That's not a huge amount to go off but winning the biggest LAN to date and making the top 4 of the biggest online tournament has to put him up there.