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torm3ntin
Brazil2534 Posts
Obviously Artosis was emotionally affected after he was given a loss, and obviously TL Staff was emotionally affected after giving artosis the loss. Just let things get more calm and both TL staff and Artosis will have a good time once again. Nice response by nazgul. GN8 everyone and thanks for the casting. | ||
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Eury
Sweden1126 Posts
But at least he is providing plenty of entertainment, I give him that. Regarding the rules, just make it very simple and award the loss automatically to whoever disconnects no matter what. There is no need of any subjective ruling that will always be subjected to drama. | ||
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prosper
United States20 Posts
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SuperXlax
United States197 Posts
On May 09 2010 11:59 Jyvblamo wrote: I'm glad TL came forth with this reasonable response. You can always count on TL to do the right thing... eventually.  everythingwentbetterthanexpected.jpg Exactly, love TL <3. People still posting with negative comments about Artosis' behavior - he had every right to be upset. | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
Regardless we'll try to keep looking for options to make this right. If you have any suggestions you are more than welcome to post them here. Buy Artosis a new stick of ram. ^_^ | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:01 Eury wrote: Artosis is a child throwing a tantrum. When it comes to behavior and manners he really should start acting more like Tasteless instead of Idra. But at least he is providing plenty of entertainment, I give him that. Regarding the rules, just make it very simple and award the loss automatically to whoever disconnects no matter what. There is no need of any subjective ruling that will always be subjected to drama. Yeah, because battle.net and other things that are completely out of your control should totally be held against a player. TL's policy is the proper policy. | ||
BroOd
Austin10833 Posts
At the time, we had to weigh the idea of 99% winning vs 100% winning. The line between the two is small but profound. As someone who hasn't played SC2 enough yet to know how large army battles will come out (I thought slush had the left-side battle won easily with those fungal growths), I couldn't say for certain that Slush had 0% chance of ever coming back in any possible universe. It was unfortunate that we didn't have someone more knowledgable on hand at the time to make a more informed call, but c'est la vie. We were well aware that artosis was very ahead. The issue is that if you get the win in a situation where you're only 99% winning, you essentially benefit from your own disconnect by denying your opponent the opportunity (no matter how infinitesimal it might be) to try to make a comeback. Every player deserves the right to keep fighting until he's dead or taps out, and there's no way one player should get to take away that right if they were were the one who disconnected. Rules have to be broadly applicable and easily definable. What I mean is that the rules that apply to one person and their games have to stand for every other game to maintain fairness. How do we judge how far ahead someone was objectively, with what critera? How can we apply that standard to other games in the future? Were you 99% ahead? 95%? And is that the line? Or is the line 88% ahead? That said, after having time to review the game and get input from better players than I, I can certainly defer to their opinion and concede that artosis had won 100%, and should have been awarded that win post-disconnect. At the time, it wasn't that clear, and the fairest option for both players seemed to be to offer a re-game. I can certainly say it was a mistake, and a very unfortunate situation for both artosis and slush. The most we can try to gain from this, like Nazgul said, is the ability to judge these situations better in the future. I hope this helped explain some of the reasons why this whole situation boiled into what it did. When TL admins like Nazgul and Kennigit make tough decisions like this, they do so in good faith and with the best interests of the players and the tournament in mind, it's important to remember that. | ||
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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grevenchile
Chile118 Posts
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:06 Xeris wrote: This really should have not happened in the first place , a reasoned decision should have been made from the get-go. If the tournament admins don't know the game enough to make a reasoned decision, other people should have been consulted. Naz is great for trying to rectify a situation that shouldn't have even happened in the first place. Artosis got dicked and that SUCKS  Responses like this are EXACTLY what I'm talking about I'm coming from 2 years on iCCup and 3 seasons on PGTour as my listed experience in this matter. This is much much easier said than done especially when the players have already talked about and argued about it so that you're being pressured even more to make hte "right" decision. | ||
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Tone_
United Kingdom554 Posts
I think it was up to sLush to concede graciously and it is actually there that the issue lies. | ||
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HydroXy
United States513 Posts
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Eury
Sweden1126 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:04 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Yeah, because battle.net and other things that are completely out of your control should totally be held against a player. TL's policy is the proper policy. If Battlenet is truly at fault, then in most cases both players will be dropped, not just one. But fine, don't have auto loss. Check the replay and then decide if the disconnected player got a very clear advantage. If so, then allow a rematch. Never, ever, award a win to someone that disconnects no matter how big the advantage is in favor of him. That would be completely unfair to the opponent. | ||
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UbiNax
Denmark381 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:13 Eury wrote: If Battlenet is truly at fault, then in most cases both players will be dropped, not just one. But fine, don't have auto loss. Check the replay and then decide if the disconnected player got a very clear advantage. If so, then allow a rematch. Never, ever, award a win to someone that disconnects no matter how big the advantage is in favor of him. That would be completely unfair to the opponent. i disagree, ofc they should be able to give a win to the disc if he got it 100% as Nazgul stated in the OP -- on that note i think a solution could be: Take away slush's TLI 2# title and price money and let artosis play against Cauthonluck in the finals. And even though Slush should have conceded the game and given the win to artosis then he should get a showmatch with pricemoney to make up for it. | ||
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Radical
United States481 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:09 Tone_ wrote: Seems like it was a heated response from Artosis towards TL and apologies from both are necessary. I think it was up to sLush to concede graciously and it is actually there that the issue lies. I agree. I think TL, though it made a wrong decision, can't really be blamed in this situation, especially given the apology issued in this thread. I also think Artosis' anger is 100% justified. In a situation like that, what SHOULD have happened is that slush should have given artosis the win. Edit: I'm certainly not a high level player, so my opinion....may not mean that much. | ||
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
Artosis: got screwed by mistake, got emotional, and couldn't handle it like a mature adult (kind of understandable though given the situation) Slush: took the regame even though he probably knew he lost, not deserving of respect (unless maybe he needed the money to pay for his sick mother's hospital bills or something lol) | ||
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yoshi_yoshi
United States440 Posts
For this situation, some rule should be written beforehand to determine the difference between 99% winning a game (which would be regame), and effectively 100%. It doesn't really matter how you define 'effectively 100%', just that everyone is aware of it. | ||
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Eury
Sweden1126 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:15 UbiNax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 09 2010 12:13 Eury wrote: If Battlenet is truly at fault, then in most cases both players will be dropped, not just one. But fine, don't have auto loss. Check the replay and then decide if the disconnected player got a very clear advantage. If so, then allow a rematch. Never, ever, award a win to someone that disconnects no matter how big the advantage is in favor of him. That would be completely unfair to the opponent. i disagree, ofc they should be able to give a win to the disc if he got it 100% as Nazgul stated in the OP It wasn't 100%. 100% would had been if Slush had an extractor and nothing else. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23352 Posts
Judging as a player I can say [I double checked the replay since it was noted I couldn't have been paying much attention the first time] that artosis did have the game 100% won. [I still say that the battle at the end may not have been 100% won, but there was no chance of comeback from slush] As an admin with limited SC2 insight, I can definitely understand giving slush the regame. Remember you might think that the better player should win the regame as well, but considering how tilted artosis was, only regaming for risk of being DQ'd, it was no suprise that he lost the game. Under pressure, from the flow of the tournament and the players themselves, you have to respect someone actually manning up and actually making a decision, right or wrong. And there will be people hating you for it either way. It's not an easy situation to make and I think you guys should be a bit more emphatic in this situation. The only "manner" way to resolve the situation is for the player losing to forfeit. Not an easy thing to do but its the only way to avoid admins having a situation they don't want to be in. | ||
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