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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On May 10 2010 02:38 G.s)NarutO wrote: TvZ is not so bad, but seriously I saw your games vs Jinro. You made a fool of yourself,... he went really reaperheavy and you stayed with lings.. 2-3 roaches would totally shut that down. ha-ha-ha | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On May 10 2010 02:39 FrozenArbiter wrote: I played like an idiot game 1 but no excuses for game 2 and 3. Gg wp. grats for staying manner but i think everyone on TL knows what u really think why r ur posts always attacking someone elses post with 1-10 words without bringing anything urself to the table or even explaining why u disagree? in my book thats a troll | ||
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lolreaper
301 Posts
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ZpuX
Sweden1230 Posts
On May 10 2010 02:38 G.s)NarutO wrote: TvZ is not so bad, but seriously I saw your games vs Jinro. You made a fool of yourself,... he went really reaperheavy and you stayed with lings.. 2-3 roaches would totally shut that down. Oh, dont get me wrong I'm certainly not complaining about my games, I knew I made some mistakes and I am by no means satisfied with the way I played. I was just asking what kind strats are insta-win for zergs as you pretty much tried to say... On May 10 2010 02:41 MorroW wrote: lol zpux you along with tons of zerg users just ride the wave of imbalance and dont think ur race is OP. sure its starting to get playable but some weeks ago all of u zerg users thought u were so much more skilled than us I wont say the game is completely balanced, but I do think you and naruto are over exaggerating things. There was a terran in the finals today, there was a terran in the finals yesterday in the TLI. the last the last 3 ESL finals had a terran in them (including the one this Monday). There was a terran in the Razer tournament finals, there was another terran in the Gosugamers finals. US craftcup had a terran in the finals. But hey, keep ignoring this fact if it makes you feel better about yourself. | ||
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lgd-haze
Sweden547 Posts
On May 10 2010 02:46 MorroW wrote: grats for staying manner but i think everyone on TL knows what u really think What does everyone on TL think? O_O | ||
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FreshVegetables
Finland513 Posts
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On May 10 2010 02:46 MorroW wrote: grats for staying manner but i think everyone on TL knows what u really think why r ur posts always attacking someone elses post with 1-10 words without bringing anything urself to the table or even explaining why u disagree? in my book thats a troll because Naruto is a tool and he just spews nonsense for dramatic purposes and he knows it. I would perhaps put more effort into replying to his garbage of a post if he didnt manage to insult Zpux for no reason while at it. Lings shut down reapers as effectively as roaches if the person microing reapers isnt Jinro. And when it is Jinro slow ass roaches don't exactly fare that well either. And its not like there arent solid follow ups if he switches to roaches right away. I don't disagree with terran being weak part(perhaps in large portion because terrans havent been figured it out yet), but his posts are close to unbearable. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
grats for staying manner but i think everyone on TL knows what u really think I can say that it took about 10 seconds of deliberation before I decided it wasn't worth throwing the remote into a wall..... | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On May 10 2010 02:51 ZpuX wrote: Oh, dont get me wrong I'm certainly not complaining about my games, I knew I made some mistakes and I am by no means satisfied with the way I played. I was just asking what kind strats are insta-win for zergs as you pretty much tried to say... I wont say the game is completely balanced, but I do think you and naruto are over exaggerating things. There was a terran in the finals today, there was a terran in the finals yesterday in the TLI. the last the last 3 ESL finals had a terran in them (including the one this Monday). There was a terran in the Razer tournament finals, there was another terran in the Gosugamers finals. US craftcup had a terran in the finals. But hey, keep ignoring this fact if it makes you feel better about yourself. Nah, as I pointed out, TvZ is not outstanding as example of imbalance. Certain circumstances and Terran is fucked, but that also goes for Zerg. So its fine for me. I don't even complain losing to a Protoss who just plainly playes better, but sometimes you face situations, defend as good as you can, lose all your stuff, he loses all his stuff, but he can reinforce or rebuild his army in no time with warpgates etc. There's no instant win in TvZ besides those - as I mentioned before - tricky strategies, but I won't complain since you can pull tricky shit off as Terran also. Edit: Also I referred to earlier patches with that TvZ. | ||
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
Protoss is just gay because they allow people like naniwa who have never heard of expansions in their lives to be good gimmick strategy players. If you ever see a game with naniwa that reaches the mid or lategame you'll feel embarassed for the kid. He can't macro for shit. These 5gate builds are prolly the wc3 equivalent to tower rushes. Gimmick build that shouldn't work and won't work frequently enough as it gets patched. And then we get to the zerg. They have an overpowered macro mechanic that makes them go out of control in the mid and lategame. But they are really weak and have to do alot of guessing in the early game to even get there. They'd possibly be able to get rid of some of these imbalances if they nerfed the macro mechanics for all races. Slightly more for zerg than the other races. It'd allow zerg to survive to the mid game easier and at the same time not be so ridiculously strong when they got there. Also it'd be fun to have some more tension and decision making regarding building hatcheries or making queens. Also I think terrans macro mechanic needs to be revamped so MULEs return considerably less, but they cost like 10 energy. This would punish terran players for having bad macro as they'd saturate their mineral lines if they miss putting down the MULEs. It'd also balance out gold expansions which are ridiculously strong for terrans. I think Blizzard will realize sooner or later they have to tweak the macro mechanics to make 1base play weaker. As it is now it is the best strategy available. Because the macro mechanics accelerate the gameplay there's too big of a discrepancy between expanding and cheesing/all-inning. Nerfing the macro mechanics would smoothen it out and delay the timings of everything slightly. If you scout a 5 gate you should be able to counter it. In BW if you scouted a scouted 4 gate you would be in a massive lead because the non existent macro mechanics and delayed timings early game would allow you to adapt accordingly. As it is now in SC2, it doesn't really matter if you scout a 5gate, it's still just as hard to stop. It'd be interesting if they could make the macro mechanics weaker in the early game, and make them scale up in strength as you tech up through the tiers. The early game needs to be slowed down. It's creating a bottleneck that destroys gameplay. | ||
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rhap
Brazil136 Posts
GG tho. | ||
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Doomgaze
Sweden89 Posts
And yes it's true that we've seen a few terran players making it to the finals over the last few tournaments. But it seems like a few of these terran players progressed by playing other terran/random users in the brackets, or playing offrace themselves. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On May 10 2010 02:57 LaLuSh wrote: I think terran are forced to 1base if they want the matchup vs zerg to be even. If they do... it's often balanced, but the games feel more like coin flips than real games because the zerg has to guess the terran tech pattern and transitions. Basically if they guess right and/or don't overcommit to defense they win. If it goes to a macro game, terran will lose more often than not. Protoss is just gay because they allow people like naniwa who have never heard of expansions in their lives to be good gimmick strategy players. If you ever see a game with naniwa that reaches the mid or lategame you'll feel embarassed for the kid. He can't macro for shit. These 5gate builds are prolly the wc3 equivalent to tower rushes. Gimmick build that shouldn't work and won't work frequently enough as it gets patched. And then we get to the zerg. They have an overpowered macro mechanic that makes them go out of control in the mid and lategame. But they are really weak and have to do alot of guessing in the early game to even get there. They'd possibly be able to get rid of some of these imbalances if they nerfed the macro mechanics for all races. Slightly more for zerg than the other races. It'd allow zerg to survive to the mid game easier and at the same time not be so ridiculously strong when they got there. Also it'd be fun to have some more tension and decision making regarding building hatcheries or making queens. Also I think terrans macro mechanic needs to be revamped so MULEs return considerably less, but they cost like 10 energy. This would punish terran players for having bad macro as they'd saturate their mineral lines if they miss putting down the MULEs. It'd also balance out gold expansions which are ridiculously strong for terrans. I think Blizzard will realize sooner or later they have to tweak the macro mechanics to make 1base play weaker. As it is now it is the best strategy available. Because the macro mechanics accelerate the gameplay there's too big of a discrepancy between expanding and cheesing/all-inning. Nerfing the macro mechanics would smoothen it out and delay the timings of everything slightly. If you scout a 5 gate you should be able to counter it. In BW if you scouted a scouted 4 gate you would be in a massive lead because the non existent macro mechanics and delayed timings early game would allow you to adapt accordingly. As it is now in SC2, it doesn't really matter if you scout a 5gate, it's still just as hard to stop. Thanks. Thank you. So much actually. Thats one of the main reasons that make me rage. You somehow sneak a scv into the Protoss base, see whatever he does, be it 4gate, 5gate, 3 gate stargate or any other stuff, you should have an answer to counter it perfectly, but all those strategies are still hard to stop. | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
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FreshVegetables
Finland513 Posts
On May 10 2010 03:02 Doomgaze wrote: IIRC blizz has stated that there's a ~10% disadvantage in the TvP matchup. These statistics were generated from platinum and - I believe - even gold league ladder play. This means the actual number may very well be even higher at the top level (as if 10% wasn't a lot already). And yes it's true that we've seen a few terran players making it to the finals over the last few tournaments. But it seems like a few of these terran players progressed by playing other terran/random users in the brackets, or playing offrace themselves. Source plz, because i'm pretty sure it was 3-4% and not 10%. | ||
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lolreaper
301 Posts
On May 10 2010 03:04 FreshVegetables wrote: Source plz, because i'm pretty sure it was 3-4% and not 10%. its 45 to 55%, and they count in things like 6rax reaper all ins etc, without this bullshit terrans winrate would be even more sad | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
lol On May 10 2010 02:54 FreshVegetables wrote: Yeah, MorroW is totally exaggerating the balance issue. Sure there are minor things but that's surely not why MorroW nowdays gets eliminated in round 3-4 or so. There are certainly ways that Terran can overcome the rather small imbalances in the beta. gg wp Nani! im getting score 1-2 vs ra and 1-2 vs hasuobs. to be honest my scores in tvp r just completely random because the mu is really just a guessing game from terrans point of view. that i lose vs these random toss users maybe say im a bad player (which is bs) but it also says that its imbalanced and as i stated - luckbased i dont really think u can call it overexadurating if u look at the statistics. statistics favor me, public opinions on forums favor me. asia favor me, us too. ladder rankings favor me patch history favor me, blizzard interviews favor me. casters say what i say chat forums talk about what i talk about. when hydra attacked fast as hell, roach had 2 armor and hydra 90 life you zpux and all other zergs were convinced that i lost because i was playing badly. lets wait some more patches and watch me have right even more because each patch my words make truth so if u ppl who say im wrong wanna go down this road all over again then sure be my guest. sit next to me, sit and watch as toss and zerg being nerfed On May 10 2010 02:55 Sfydjklm wrote: because Naruto is a tool and he just spews nonsense for dramatic purposes and he knows it. I would perhaps put more effort into replying to his garbage of a post if he didnt manage to insult Zpux for no reason while at it. Lings shut down reapers as effectively as roaches if the person microing reapers isnt Jinro. And when it is Jinro slow ass roaches don't exactly fare that well either. And its not like there arent solid follow ups if he switches to roaches right away. I don't disagree with terran being weak part(perhaps in large portion because terrans havent been figured it out yet), but his posts are close to unbearable. "if the person microing reapers isnt Jinro". when u theorycraft u dont include which players are playing. when u make bos ur not supposed to care whos being the computer. im not gonna start talk about how to counter reapers but im just stating that ur way of thinking is completely garbage if u wanna create a solid strategy that doesnt die vs reapers for example. oh and @Lalush, i totally agree. i think the heavy macro allows 1base to be so ridiculously strong. i dont know how pvz works but tvz how pretty many strats and the overall feeling i get when i see other players (that dont fe like me) is the word "luck". i get the "if zerg knew ud be lolled" On May 10 2010 03:05 lolreaper wrote: theres something wrong with the way warp gates work, they shouldnt be so ridiculously strong as they are now, its 45 to 55%, and they count in things like 6rax reaper all ins etc, without this bullshit terrans winrate would be even more sad last time i heard from blizzard it was 54% in pvt which makes it a 8% differential. on top tier level its probably 30% differential at least | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On May 10 2010 03:04 FreshVegetables wrote: Source plz, because i'm pretty sure it was 3-4% and not 10%. they said it's within 5% some people just took it as 55-45(cough cough glhf.tv) and thats how misinformation spreads. | ||
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Geval
788 Posts
 Where was the 3-2 comeback that Nazgul promised us !!!! U better win the next Zontac | ||
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ZpuX
Sweden1230 Posts
On May 10 2010 03:02 Doomgaze wrote: IIRC blizz has stated that there's a ~10% disadvantage in the TvP matchup. These statistics were generated from platinum and - I believe - even gold league ladder play. This means the actual number may very well be even higher at the top level (as if 10% wasn't a lot already). And yes it's true that we've seen a few terran players making it to the finals over the last few tournaments. But it seems like a few of these terran players progressed by playing other terran/random users in the brackets, or playing offrace themselves. hehe so you are saying that there are so many terran players that all they have to do is face each other and they end up in the finals? It's a fact that there have been a lot of terrans in the finals the last week/s. | ||
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