• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:01
CEST 07:01
KST 14:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China2Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL63Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16
StarCraft 2
General
Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? PiG Sty Festival #5: Playoffs Preview + Groups Recap
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
SC uni coach streams logging into betting site Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 648 users

[G] MaxPax's PvT Easy MMR Macro DT Opener

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
ESChamp
Profile Joined September 2014
Canada124 Posts
September 10 2021 21:54 GMT
#1


Replay Download - MaxPax vs HeRoMaRinE

+ Show Spoiler [ Build timings] +

12 0:08 Pylon
13 0:27 Gateway
15 0:42 Assimilator
18 1:14 Cybernetics Core
19 1:31 Nexus
19 1:38 Pylon
20 1:47 Adept (Chrono Boost)
20 1:53 Assimilator
22 1:59 Warp Gate
23 2:07 Adept (Chrono Boost)
27 2:29 Twilight Council
27 2:32 Adept
30 2:42 Shield Battery
32 2:57 Robotics Facility
37 3:22 Dark Shrine
37 3:29 Gateway
39 3:45 Warp Prism (Chrono Boost)
43 3:57 Gateway
45 4:06 Pylon x2
45 4:13 Assimilator x2
46 4:29 Pylon
48 4:37 Dark Templar x2
54 4:38 Blink (Chrono Boost)
56 5:00 Dark Templar
56 5:01 Archon
60 5:11 Nexus
60 5:14 Dark Templar, Stalker
60 5:20 Archon
66 5:24 Forge
68 5:40 Stalker x2
68 5:42 Observer
74 5:44 Robotics Bay
77 6:06 Stalker x3
77 6:10 Charge
84 6:13 Protoss Ground Weapons Level 1
83 6:28 Shield Battery
83 6:29 Colossus (Chrono Boost), Gateway
92 6:51 Stalker x3
98 6:54 Photon Cannon
98 6:55 Gateway
98 6:58 Extended Thermal Lance
97 7:14 Gateway x2
97 7:15 Colossus (Chrono Boost)
97 7:18 Photon Cannon
99 7:32 Nexus, Zealot
99 7:35 Sentry x2
103 7:37 Zealot
107 7:53 Stalker
111 8:00 Zealot x3
117 8:08 Shield Battery
118 8:15 Zealot x4
118 8:18 Colossus (Chrono Boost)
130 8:28 Zealot
74 9:20 Colossus (Chrono Boost)
90 9:39 Dark Templar x4
90 9:44 Archon x2



The Transition:
Now, in a lot of games, you just got some free MMR. Luckily Maxpax is playing vs Biggest of Gabes, who has indeed scouted the DT Shrine earlier. At 5:15, he is grabbing the third base to further transition into the Macro Game, while also warping in 2 more DTs in the front to potentially go for an Archon Drop. At 5:25 a forge is added.

Now from here on out, the game opens up massively for the Protoss, depending on what the gamestate is, and what your preference in playstyle is. The three meta Macro transitions are into a Mass Gate Style with a second Forge, a Storm focused style with a High Templar Archives, or what Maxpax will be showing here: Robotics Bay and Colossi.

With Blink finishing, charge is started, and Maxpax is opting for pressure with the Archon Drop and a handfull of stalkers. Once again trying to punish potential mistakes, without actually committing them. It is ESSENTIAL that we don't lose Starkers unnecessarily. Having a hand full of stalkers in your army is great for Anti-Air and some added damage, however adding more stalkers after this first battle, will not only delay your tech, but production for actually good Core units in your army, aka Zealots.

Micro-wise, Maxpax is trying to get some damage done with the Archons. As Archons are very tanky, the main thing to worry about is to not lose the Prism. Macro wise, we're setting up the minimum amount of Static D (Cannons in Mineral lines, shield battery the base), while getting the gateway count up to 8-10 without building units in the meantime, if possible. That way, the big gateway explosion will enable the perfect abusing of the economic advantage we have gained.

Defending the Counter
Now, if you've macroed well, and did some damage, depending on your transition, you could go for a final push to end the game while taking a fourth base or gases..or both. Gases allow for easier Tech switching, another base allows for more Gateways. However, Maxpax only traded decently here, which means the Terran can go for their counter attack. This phase is now all about vision, knowing where the Terran army is coming from, if it might be dropping. In between the drop and the Colossi, Maxpax has been pumping out observers to gain some vision. If a raven is out, Map vision and vision of main army both is preferable to..well, losing your Observer. You may also add pylons, or even move single zealots / surviving adepts in spots to see the army and drop movements.

If the army is moving out, you want to safely kite the Terran army with your larger range, keeping them from stimming on top of you with forcefields, while baiting out stims, sieges and raven disables far away from where the actual fight will happen. If you did it correctly, the fight will then be happening at one of your bases, fortified with batteries, and an incredible army advantage from your economy kicking in earlier.
jimminy_kriket
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada5501 Posts
September 12 2021 01:06 GMT
#2
Thank you for the guide, I will be using it on ladder. I am curious as to why maxpax didn't place his initial pylon gateway and core in position to block the reaper ledge. Against any decent player who opens reaper I would think this gets scouted pretty easily and it did.

One could argue that it's probably going to get scouted anyways, or that he expected a marine opening which is somewhat meta at the moment. Still seems strange not to try. Or perhaps its actually better to let it get scouted because the terran might over invest in turrets making the archon harass more potent due to lack of units.

What do you think?
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
HolyHit
Profile Joined March 2013
Germany4 Posts
September 12 2021 16:38 GMT
#3
It's probably because of the tightness of the 12 pylon 13 gateway, and getting the best out of that opening.

If the main focus is the dt drop itself, a normal opening, 14 pylon 16 gateway, would probably be the better option, as it's easier to proxy the dt shrine / wall-off the main. But since the DT shrine being scouted is never a game ending moment, I'm guessing the focus really was just on getting that 12/13 as clean as possible.
jimminy_kriket
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada5501 Posts
September 16 2021 23:51 GMT
#4
That makes sense, I haven't been using 12 pylon very much so I wasn't sure how impactful being behind15 minerals or so would be to the overall timings.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
_fool
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands676 Posts
September 18 2021 18:34 GMT
#5
I'm not a Protoss player, but I really appreciate people putting out this type of content! Stuff like this makes TL the go-to SC2 platform. Well done!
"News is to the mind what sugar is to the body"
qcHanHan
Profile Joined September 2011
Denmark71 Posts
October 05 2021 09:02 GMT
#6
Still works like a charm for me in master 1 (y) Lovely build.
HerO - herO - PartinG - sOs - Rain - Zest - Stats
Danijonn
Profile Joined October 2021
2 Posts
October 14 2021 20:04 GMT
#7
--- Nuked ---
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 262
ProTech59
Ketroc 48
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 505
Shine 108
Snow 49
Mind 45
Bale 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1265
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1099
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King178
Other Games
summit1g9573
ViBE213
Maynarde67
SortOf14
NeuroSwarm11
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick34655
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH294
• Hupsaiya 67
• practicex 26
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki35
• Diggity5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1180
• Rush1155
• HappyZerGling95
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
6h
Replay Cast
19h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 5h
WardiTV European League
1d 11h
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
1d 19h
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
FEL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.