This is a new way to nexus first that I discovered. You go nexus before pylon supply capping yourself for over 30secs... but because your nexus finishes much faster, you actually catch up and slightly surpass the worker count of a typical nexus first build. You also don't have to distance mine the natural as long so you almost catch up on minerals mined (-50minerals). You can place your first tech structure 10sec sooner (which is so important) and you don't need a 2nd pylon early as your nexus finishes in time to give that supply. Video link at the top of this post shows a side-by-side comparison of normal Nexus first vs Nexus before pylon.
New Way to Open Nexus First
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Ketroc
Canada74 Posts
This is a new way to nexus first that I discovered. You go nexus before pylon supply capping yourself for over 30secs... but because your nexus finishes much faster, you actually catch up and slightly surpass the worker count of a typical nexus first build. You also don't have to distance mine the natural as long so you almost catch up on minerals mined (-50minerals). You can place your first tech structure 10sec sooner (which is so important) and you don't need a 2nd pylon early as your nexus finishes in time to give that supply. Video link at the top of this post shows a side-by-side comparison of normal Nexus first vs Nexus before pylon. | ||
Saggymidgetbooty6969
112 Posts
"you can throw down a cannon ten seconds earlier" incorrect. 15nexus the fastest you can make a gateway is 1:09(thats when you first pylon finishes) 17nexus 17gateway the gateway starts 1:07 https://i.imgur.com/gOqi955.png i got a cannon two seconds faster than your 15nexus variant, while having two more probes in my own test 15nexus 15pylon 16gateway i end up with 2830 minerals/284 gas mined @3:00 and 17nexus 17gateway is 2865 minerals/300 gas mined @3:00 15nex has gateway delayed by two seconds and 35minerals 16 gas less mined. No advantages to it. And since it has fewer probes before the extra production/chrono kicks in, it leaves you more vulnerable early game. your test gave wonky results because it was a bad test, you went 18nexus thats the first mistake then you go gateway at 20, you started rallying probes to your natural once you had 16 in main (16 isnt maximum mining) nor did you make gases which you would in a real game, allowing the extra probes to mine from the gases instead of being slightly oversaturated Not recommended to do this opening. but props for trying to innovate - do 17nex/17gateway instead if you're going nexus first thats the most economy you can get while having reasonably timed tech | ||
Ketroc
Canada74 Posts
"you can place your first tech structure 10sec sooner" "you can throw down a cannon ten seconds earlier" incorrect. 15nexus the fastest you can make a gateway is 1:09(thats when you first pylon finishes) 17nexus 17gateway the gateway starts 1:07 https://i.imgur.com/gOqi955.png i got a cannon two seconds faster than your 15nexus variant, while having two more probes in my own test 15nexus 15pylon 16gateway i end up with 2830 minerals/284 gas mined @3:00 and 17nexus 17gateway is 2865 minerals/300 gas mined @3:00 15nex has gateway delayed by two seconds and 35minerals 16 gas less mined. No advantages to it. And since it has fewer probes before the extra production/chrono kicks in, it leaves you more vulnerable early game. your test gave wonky results because it was a bad test, you went 18nexus thats the first mistake then you go gateway at 20, you started rallying probes to your natural once you had 16 in main (16 isnt maximum mining) nor did you make gases which you would in a real game, allowing the extra probes to mine from the gases instead of being slightly oversaturated Not recommended to do this opening. but props for trying to innovate - do 17nex/17gateway instead if you're going nexus first thats the most economy you can get while having reasonably timed tech So yes, my test was without cutting workers, so 18 nexus, 20 gateway. I tried 17/17 twice. In comparison to nexus->pylon, 17/17 is 2sec faster tech, 6 less minerals, 1 less worker, 12 less chrono. So faster tech, but a bit of a hit from cutting probe production. | ||
Saggymidgetbooty6969
112 Posts
So yes, my test was without cutting workers, so 18 nexus, 20 gateway. I tried 17/17 twice. In comparison to nexus->pylon, 17/17 is 2sec faster tech, 6 less minerals, 1 less worker, 12 less chrono. So faster tech, but a bit of a hit from cutting probe production. you might be getting less minerals with 17/17 because you're rallying probes to nat when you got 16 on minerals which isnt efficient, they will mine more in the main - playing a real game scenario instead of the test you did results in 17/17 having stronger economy and faster tech so there isnt a single advantage to nexus before pylon | ||
Ketroc
Canada74 Posts
On March 05 2018 05:36 Saggymidgetbooty6969 wrote: you might be getting less minerals with 17/17 because you're rallying probes to nat when you got 16 on minerals which isnt efficient, they will mine more in the main - playing a real game scenario instead of the test you did results in 17/17 having stronger economy and faster tech so there isnt a single advantage to nexus before pylon Tried without distance mining and I can't get it to give more minerals than distance mining even when I do my best to triple up on the far patches, and prevent bouncing... Not sure if that's smart to do in a real game anyhow as you'll then have to transfer workers and fix the main mineral line to not have any 3on1 patch. I then tried going 17/17 into double gas, which mostly negates the need for oversaturation/distance mining. The results at 3:27 were: 17/17: 37probes 1415m/512g nexus->pylon: 38probes 1350m/492g In this case, nexus->pylon is behind because the extra early workers of 17/17 get full efficiency with the early assimilators. So I think this new build idea is only superior to 18nex/20gate or a late-gas nexus first build like 17/17 forge gate assimilator. | ||
Saggymidgetbooty6969
112 Posts
On March 05 2018 05:49 Ketroc wrote: So I think this new build idea is only superior to 18nex/20gate or a late-gas nexus first build like 17/17 forge gate assimilator. Well 18nex/20gate isnt a thing that anybody ever did. if pro's nexus first its 17/17 since thats the best balance of economy and having your gateway reasonably fast to defend early pools (FFE isnt viable at pro level) but yeah if you want to open with forge to cannon rush after nexus first then you should also go 17/17 since forge is two seconds faster and you have more money for cannons | ||
Obamarauder
697 Posts
same reason zerg goes 17 hatch (1 drone still building so its 18 supply technically) 17 gas/pool | ||
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