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Just an idle question here, not really a criticism per se -
How do these builds line up to 1.5 base roach ravager timings from zerg? (These attacks tend to hit around 4:40 to 5:00-ish.) Seems to me like if you find 3 ravagers nuking your wall when all your units are in a medivac halfway across the map, you might find yourself having a bad time.
That being said, if this does happen its entirely possible that you might just win the resulting base trade if you commit hard enough, seeing as the zerg is just as poorly positioned to defend your drop as you were to defend his attack. Early ravager timings do not have lair tech, so maybe a few widow mines at home tip the scales in your favor? I've done this many times from the zerg point of view but almost never from the terran side - I'm interested to know how this feels the other way around.
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On February 27 2016 00:12 wabbajack_sc2 wrote:
Just an idle question here, not really a criticism per se -
How do these builds line up to 1.5 base roach ravager timings from zerg? (These attacks tend to hit around 4:40 to 5:00-ish.) Seems to me like if you find 3 ravagers nuking your wall when all your units are in a medivac halfway across the map, you might find yourself having a bad time.
That being said, if this does happen its entirely possible that you might just win the resulting base trade if you commit hard enough, seeing as the zerg is just as poorly positioned to defend your drop as you were to defend his attack. Early ravager timings do not have lair tech, so maybe a few widow mines at home tip the scales in your favor? I've done this many times from the zerg point of view but almost never from the terran side - I'm interested to know how this feels the other way around.
Like i said, it's important to know if they're taking a third base or not, i think 3.30 is around the time a zerg player would take his third. Any later means either lair/roach aggression/ling bane aggression.
With your reaper try to scout how much gas did they mine from the first assimilator and if they're still mining gas, it's easy then to understand if it's a baneling bust or a roach ravager all from unit composition, even if you don't scout the tech structure.
For RR aggression you shouldn't have any problem and should have enough units with the second rax, maybe add a bunker to be super safe.
Baneling bust may require you to pull scvs/reinforce your wall.
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I think the posted double medivac build is very similar to one of my go-to TvZ builds but much, much better. I'm going to use it out tonight. What do you generally transition with behind the build? I assume you tech the fact and make tanks but do you CC before that? Do you set up more raxes before your third CC?
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On February 27 2016 04:57 Tenks wrote:
I think the posted double medivac build is very similar to one of my go-to TvZ builds but much, much better. I'm going to use it out tonight. What do you generally transition with behind the build? I assume you tech the fact and make tanks but do you CC before that? Do you set up more raxes before your third CC?
I usually make the 3rd CC first (around 4.45-5.00), then make another reactor with the starport and build the third rax on its previous one, since you don't instantly need 2 more medivacs. At that point you have a naked factory and you can chose to either go tanks or widowmines based on opponent's unit composition (tanks vs roach ravager and mines vs ling bane).
You can chose what you want, i don't like tanks too much, so i usually go pure bio vs roach ravager, never really had any problem with it..
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On February 21 2016 23:02 QzYSc2 wrote:http://www.ggtracker.com/matches/6489463this was my latest tvz against rank 80 gm. If i didnt go full potato defending his speedlings and forget the depot after the engineering bay, i probably could've started my 3rd and armory (and thus +2/+2) a bit faster. I can post more replays if you want, like against early roach ravager pressure. Thanks for posting this, I quite like this build.
I would love it if you would post replays where you defend zerg aggression like early ravagers or early baneling bust. I'm guessing if they go for a quick baneling bust you need to make extra buildings to reinforce your wall? I would love to hear any tips you have about situations where you adjust your build.
edit: another question, do you do this build on all maps or only with in-base natural? I'm sure it is much safer with in base natural but I am not sure if it can work on other maps too
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On February 28 2016 23:45 DrDevice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2016 23:02 QzYSc2 wrote:http://www.ggtracker.com/matches/6489463this was my latest tvz against rank 80 gm. If i didnt go full potato defending his speedlings and forget the depot after the engineering bay, i probably could've started my 3rd and armory (and thus +2/+2) a bit faster. I can post more replays if you want, like against early roach ravager pressure. Thanks for posting this, I quite like this build. I would love it if you would post replays where you defend zerg aggression like early ravagers or early baneling bust. I'm guessing if they go for a quick baneling bust you need to make extra buildings to reinforce your wall? I would love to hear any tips you have about situations where you adjust your build. edit: another question, do you do this build on all maps or only with in-base natural? I'm sure it is much safer with in base natural but I am not sure if it can work on other maps too
I'm not sure what to do vs baneling busts, i only have 1 replay where i played vs a baneling bust using an old version of this build. Nobody seems to try to baneling bust me lol. and it was at an early stage of experimenting with this build where i went 2 rax, then 2 gas after cc first and a bunker.
against baneling on ulrena:
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6505211
what i can tell you, is that you will straight up die against a 1 base zerg 13 gas/12 pool baneling bust if you don't know it's coming. Fortunately though, almost nobody does that retarded shit (except that one random guy on ladder lol), but if you want to be safe against that you can send an 19 scv scout to check if he expanded.
some of my thought process against roach ravager:
You need good control to pull this off. I've had games where i just died if didnt micro properly.
instantly start marauder production from your techlab rax the moment you see roaches attacking your wall.
You can either try to defend your wall pulling scvs to buffer, or just fall back to your scvs, make a bunker near your production while your wall buys time and wait for more units. it depends on how much he committed to the pressure and how he positions himself.
If his ravagers are slightly isolated and out of position, try to scv surround his ravagers, it should be an easy hold if you manage that.
roaches have less range than marines and marauders and you should kite them as much as possible.
on maps with a low ground natural it might be wiser to fly back to your main, retreat with your scvs, and defend the ramp/choke and wait for a tank + medivac. if you keep your scv alive you shouldn't be behind if not ahead. once again, depending on the situation.
a bunker should make this infinite times easier to defend, you can easily cut 2 marines and make a bunker instead. i didnt because i was testing how greedy i could be without dying.
on ulrena (with queen support):
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6505222
on orbital:
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6505383
im not doing this build very often anymore though, im practising other styles currently.
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EPT
