ZvT: 12 gas, 12 pool, expand?

BabelFish1

186 Posts

January 30 2016 09:33 GMT

The zerg will grab a 12 gas then 12 pool, pull 3 drones to gas asap, gets a hatch, drones back to 14 then gets fast speed, queen and after queen gets ovie speed+evo chamber, makes aprox 18 speedlings, keeping most out of sight and enough to deny any scouting+speed ovies immediately after queen then loads up the 18 speedlings (you squeeze in a roach warren as ur larva regenerate) and drops either on your mineranl line or just out of sight if there's a spot they can do it in @ 3:30, grabs a new gas, makes 4 more drones so there's always 12 on minerals and goes roach ravager off of hatch, sometimes droning up if they're just buying time or zerglings to flood your breach or roaches if they feel like trolling/start using the fast transport ovies as HotS warp prisms (pick up+drop behind other roaches/morph to ravager).

Can someone break this down and tell me if it can work of if it's just wishful thinking please?

I've done it once with the chance to drop injured roaches and morph once and it worked but I was on a roll and before I practice this too much I need to know if it's worth the effort or not to refine it and hit every timing dead on.

brickrd

United States4894 Posts

January 30 2016 14:04 GMT

i'm not sure i understand the point of opening 12/12 with this. why not just do ling drops off of a normal opener? if you're thinking you're going to deny scouting by getting speed earlier, i don't really believe that works. terran should see your hatch timing (which will be late) and immediately know you opened speed, and when you don't hit a timing to delay his natural he'll get confused and probably scan/play defensively. 18 lings that early sounds like it necessitates a lot of damage

i'm not saying it can't work or that ling drops aren't good, i just think it would be equally effective and arguably more surprising off of a normal opener. ling drops are fairly common now, so if T doesn't prepare for them i don't think it's your 12/12 mindgame doing anything, i think they're just not preparing. your transitions are just pretty normal stuff, going into roach ravager as you continue the game is always a fine choice

never tried it though, so maybe you're on to something and i can't tell? post replay?

EatingBomber

1017 Posts

January 30 2016 17:33 GMT

Your post is very confusing. Are you referring to ZvT or ZvZ?

Ovid

United Kingdom948 Posts

January 30 2016 17:48 GMT

I'm guessing you're a lower league this shouldn't/won't work consistently beyond a certain level with the build you suggest.
Getting gas first is not efficient you will be way over on gas by the time you can get ling speed/ovie speed.

You're trying to make a build that is all in whilst retaining macro elements.

You either make this a pure all in, or as brick suggested you open with a much more normal build and get ling drops a bit later, If you chose to do this I would suggest looking at terran build orders and move out times so the lings come in at the time they move out, you can also just have one ling patrolling at the front when you see a move out drop.

The top level cheesy build orders are either reactions to greedy openers, or they're coin flip (if he went for a expansion first he dies if not he wins)

I wouldn't invest time into refining a ling drop, lings will never be out fast enough and in enough numbers to kill a terran outright, he should always be able to hold it off with good micro (pulling workers shielding the marines)
If you really want to do ling drops, invest the time into working out when a terran moves out in a standard build and aim for ling drops to be ready to go into his base at that time.

Ovid

United Kingdom948 Posts

January 30 2016 17:49 GMT

On January 31 2016 02:33 EatingBomber wrote:
Your post is very confusing. Are you referring to ZvT or ZvZ?

It says ZvT in the title and why would you need to drop in ZvZ?

BabelFish1

186 Posts

February 02 2016 05:14 GMT

Yeah, ZvT. I also try it in ZvP.

With the whole remark regarding it being all in or more standard:

Ive tried both ways, I always end up floating unless I get a macro hatch or expo.

I've had sucess with it up to and including daimond.

The speedling drop seems to be forcing terrans into specific reactions which are weak to Roach Ravager followups, especially with elevator dropping them into the main and speedlings attacking from the front as the roach/ravager screws with the production/units.

It's more or less a 1-2 punch combo. Punch 1 can end the game but the position that punch 1 puts the opponent into is what sets up punch 2 to do real damage. I'll post a replay or two in a bit.

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ZvT: 12 gas, 12 pool, expand?

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