EPT(I normally take ov speed so i cant really afford early bane nest)
LOTV Rule of 1-gas ZvT MLB - PiG's Guide - Page 3
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DERASTAT
Germany99 Posts
(I normally take ov speed so i cant really afford early bane nest) | ||
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Railgan
Switzerland1507 Posts
On August 12 2016 23:26 DERASTAT wrote: Hey pig After a long time it looks like somewhat meta again, how much can i drone to defend the double medivec stimm drop(5:00), it feels like 2 base 1 gas for counter attack and 2, 5 base for just defending, but both drone counts feels a little bit thin on the defense, thoughts? (I normally take ov speed so i cant really afford early bane nest) I just go drone about 2 bases and prepare 8 lings + 4 banelings for drops, 6 queens for defense, take a second gas, build a lot of lings to either attack or defend with. here is an example. | ||
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PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
On May 23 2016 21:28 DjayEl wrote: Hi PiG, I have a question regarding overlord speed and gas timings. I’ve noticed some Korean pros did research ovie speed a lot in ZvT during last GSL, so I thought that if it’s good for them, it’s even better for me as a poor diamond player trying to climb the ladder and be as safe as possible vs weird tech timings from Terran. So far, so good, but I feel it does not scales that well with your BO (which I love and use) as it messes up with early min econ. Righ now, I’m not putting away drones from gas and just follow up ling speed by ovie speed, is that the way to go or should I delay my further tech by putting off gas for a longer period of time? Or should I just drop it? Thanks! Sorry for missing this question for so long! You lose a lot of money for ovie speed - so if you do this style you need to really know how to use that information. Often I think it's better for most players to not go for ovie speed, but it really is a matter of personal preference. Hey PiG, first off thanks for all the incredible knowledge you give to the community. Second off, what do you think is the appropriate response to the Maru 5:00 minute double drop? I don't want to cry out OP because I know it's a 2 base attack that the Terran has to cut economy for but it feels like it always does fantastic damage, even when I know it's coming. This is because the architecture of most maps lend themselves well to this, the Terran player will avoid a Spore Crawler or two that you placed for sfety (making me question the usefulness of even wasting the drones to build them) and they will drop the Marines right behind the mineral line. Should you just open with more Queens and lots of lings of of a 2 base economy and skip droning the third entirely? Then I feel like I'm behind the Terran (who also is on a 2 base economy but he has MULES). Just curious as to what your thoughts were on this. Likewise sorry for the slow response but good awareness of where they come from and having your queens ready is best. With the new queen range many players are playing a style somewhat simillar to this build and skipping banes, defending with just 6 queens and a lot of speedlings. Just don't chase off creep with only lings. Always fight together and focus medivacs whenever possible. On August 12 2016 23:26 DERASTAT wrote: Hey pig After a long time it looks like somewhat meta again, how much can i drone to defend the double medivec stimm drop(5:00), it feels like 2 base 1 gas for counter attack and 2, 5 base for just defending, but both drone counts feels a little bit thin on the defense, thoughts? (I normally take ov speed so i cant really afford early bane nest) That ovie speed slows down your build a bit - make sure you're doing everything efficiently. Usually though aim to have 6 queens and a good 30 speedlings (more in production) ready at 5:20. You might need to stop at just a few drones on the 3rd, and only drone after you build ~40 lings for safety. | ||
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DERASTAT
Germany99 Posts
![[image loading]](https://secure.static.tumblr.com/bd7715690ccd328f3722e8e5b9493482/b7sp8lh/ku3n9dsyh/tumblr_static_filename_640_v2.jpg) | ||
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DjayEl
France252 Posts
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PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
On August 16 2016 06:28 DjayEl wrote: Hey PiG, as you fait there is similar strats now like Dark's one, but most of them skip Mutalisks for a faster hive. Do you think Mutalisks are still relevant currently? Yeah mutas can still be great. If you prefer just go Corrupters though. OR some players just add ravagers, infestors and go for hive in the midgame (True vs Polt on apotheosis - g1 dreamhack montreal finals) so there's lots of options available. No matter what you pretty much never mass mutas, usually stopping at about 15 to shut down medivacs and snipe widow mines after the initial harass. | ||
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PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
Edit 20th September 2016: A few small tweaks to the order, but the fundamentals are the same. Sick build, super powerful and something pros have steadily gravitated towards more and more. The efficiency of this style has allowed it to stand the test of time. You also can go mass muta with this as long as you keep trading/finding damage and reducing the liberator count. They only get hard-countered once there's 6+ liberators all together. | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
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PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
On October 20 2016 15:27 IcemanAsi wrote: Your BO says putting back workers on gas at 3:00, is this correct? it seems to be very early, how early are you getting your evo chambers ? Should +1 +1 be ready for the 5:30 attack? I don't think I can do that without really hurting my economy. If you're a bit late it's not a big deal, but if you put back on at 3:00 you get double evos around 4:00 or just after then. It's not to be ready for 5:30, it's just to get well timed 1-1 and 2-2 for the midgame ling-bane battles. If you struggle with this at your level you can always just put back on gas at 3:30 and take evos at 4:45-5:00 | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
Out of curiousty, how do you deviate this build if you scout a very early barracks-reactor swap to factory-reactor? | ||
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BarcodeTerran_
5 Posts
On December 18 2015 06:23 Maxie wrote: Do you switch unit composition if you scout mech? Go 3 gas and transition to Roach? If it's two factory cyclone rush, then burrow roach works wonders | ||
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PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
On October 20 2016 23:12 IcemanAsi wrote: Thanks for the clarification, much much better now. I was getting bad trades at the mid game without the timely 2.2, much better now, not to mention spending is much crisper. Out of curiousty, how do you deviate this build if you scout a very early barracks-reactor swap to factory-reactor? sickkk. Just make sure you have a few lings to stop runbys, make sure you go up to 8 queens (don't need a spine since 8 range) to be safe vs hellbats. Save energy for transfuse as always after 2-3 tumors. Continue with build as normal. | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
Eventaully I'll make a micro mistakes and my ling/bane army just disappears, he then moves forward and waits for the next mistake, until they kill a base then it's gg. *I'll upload a few replays tonight | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
Really a more agressive unit heavy ling muta style works versus this as mines lose potency when they can't freely walk across the map and burrow somewhere where you're forced to engage. | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
On October 26 2016 21:46 Saechiis wrote: More lings, whenever I face mines I feel like Terran is making banelings for me. Utilise ling/ muta counterattacks to hurt their mineral income and divert attention from their micro at the front where banelings will become better. I play a very ling heavy style and just amoving my shit and then boxing 95% back seems to do the trick (letting enough ling bane through that mines trigger and gets pulled into the bio). This is where 6 years of worker boxspam has paid off for me. Obviously get speed overseers. Really a more agressive unit heavy ling muta style works versus this as mines lose potency when they can't freely walk across the map and burrow somewhere where you're forced to engage. Thanks, I'll try that, how many drones do you get against this? how many gases? Can you upload a replay of you holding this in a case where he sets up an offensive location near your bases at ~8:30 please? | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
My last TvZ, not a very clean game, but I win eventually because my opponent foregoes a 3rd CC due to being pressured and then gets his army banelinged when he's distracted by a handful of muta's. I play by feel so I don't have preset drone counts or gas timings unfortunately. I tend to stay on 1 gas until I have mineral saturation on my bases. | ||
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PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
On October 26 2016 20:33 IcemanAsi wrote: Okay, things are improving and my general ZvT win rate is indeed climbing. But there is one terran build that kills me every time I do this. When Terran goes for Bio-Mine with a LOT of mines in the midgame. Even if I hold the first drop perfectly and drone up to four base sat. they keep the pressure up on my 4th/3rd depending on the map. Eventaully I'll make a micro mistakes and my ling/bane army just disappears, he then moves forward and waits for the next mistake, until they kill a base then it's gg. *I'll upload a few replays tonight Heavier ling counts can be pretty awesome and work on boxing those front lings forward deeper into their army. I rarely ever do the pull back everything but the front guys micro, instead focusing on pulling the front guys forward. Counter-attacks are pretty great. For this style though usually your aim is to be able to overwhelm any sort of parade style push where they set up on you. Creep is very important (always focus it towards the front of your 4th right from the earlygame) as is just being able to overwhelm his army when he first comes. If the mines ever get time to recharge and then take place in another fight after already firing, things aren't going well for you. At that point lots and lots of counterattacks and putting the pressure back on him is great as was suggested by Saechi! | ||
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Railgan
Switzerland1507 Posts
On October 27 2016 20:50 PiGStarcraft wrote: Heavier ling counts can be pretty awesome and work on boxing those front lings forward deeper into their army. I rarely ever do the pull back everything but the front guys micro, instead focusing on pulling the front guys forward. Counter-attacks are pretty great. For this style though usually your aim is to be able to overwhelm any sort of parade style push where they set up on you. Creep is very important (always focus it towards the front of your 4th right from the earlygame) as is just being able to overwhelm his army when he first comes. If the mines ever get time to recharge and then take place in another fight after already firing, things aren't going well for you. At that point lots and lots of counterattacks and putting the pressure back on him is great as was suggested by Saechi! To add a little bit more: Against widow mine heavy styles I suggest to not just f2->a-move -> micro. From my experience the best thing you can do is selecting 4-8 banelings with ~12 lings and just sending those units in. You want to move your Banelings either on top of his Widowmines to kill those or hit his bio with them while the goal of the lings is to run into the terran army and trigger Widowmines as well as "tanking" damage for the banelings. In Short: Just attack with small amounts of units. | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6847421 I take some unnecessary damage from the reaper as this was a game I was playing already tired, but nothing obscene, not nearly my best performance but I get into the mid game ok, then he pushes and I lose. gg game over, much fun. Please help. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
In terms of hotkey usage, start using camera hotkeys for at least your first 4 base locations and then use that to jump from base to base and box inject. You seem to edge scroll a lot which wastes time when you're doing base management (set edge pan to max speed btw). Get into the habit of spamming F1 through F5 to check up on your bases, injects and drone saturation. If your injects slip shift queue dump that energy (at 9 minutes you have 2 full energy queens sitting by your natural) you should be starved on larvae when you're making lings, but that problem doesn't arise because you have too little drones and start lair, triple gas, double evo and double spores whilst not being saturated on minerals. You should have 16 drones on minerals at your main and nat and from then on start using fresh drones to start gasses and saturate them. Minerals are the main course, gas is seasoning. If you lose drones or miss overlords you have to accept the delay to your tech or you just end up with too little of everything like in this game. Hotkey your lings as you build them, you don't seem to do this and it's really important to Zerg. Hotkeying units you're building is what makes it possible to keep your attention on other tasks that require attention, like reinforcing your army while focusing on micro. It's a feature exclusive to Zerg so abuse it! You build quite a few Queens which is good versus Terran but you don't hotkey them so it becomes almost impossible to use them to defend. When you spot a drop on the minimap you should be able to hit your Queen hotkey and a-move to the position the drop is heading. 5 Queens together are going to save you a lot of money you'd otherwise have to spend on lings and those early spores. Their strength lies in focusing the medivacs as a pack and transfusing as needed, but your queens are kind of lost sprinkled about your bases and become mere inject/ tumor producers. Last thing I noticed is that you have no vision besides your intitial two overlords. You have no idea when Terran moves out so you're building units based on timing to feel safe. Look at my replay's minimap at 4:30 - 5:30, rallying your 3rd and 4th overlords to safe spaces between your 3rd and their natural helps in having your lings and queens at the drop location in advance. Have a ling in in front of their base to see their main moveouts. | ||
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