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On August 31 2016 01:20 Najda wrote:
Is there a guide to the most standard ZvP right now? I'm at a total loss in the matchup.
I'm also having an identity crisis against P. So far I'm an easier time going ling, speedbane into bane drops to deny 3rds in every game because going roach route is actually harder to use to save your workers / threaten expos and is IMHO a dead end playstyle in the current meta. It also forces P to spend gas on units that are easier to deal with in the late game like collosi. Would rather drink bleach than use roach as your core army which opens you up to a hundred game-ending gimmicks.
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Are broods of any use against Thors? I just got stomped..
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ZvP I go hydra / ling, seems to work pretty good, then I go ultra.
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Just curios, how many of you go for lurkers in the ZvT matchup? at least vs bio.
Even though my winrate in this matchup is the best of the three, I switched to lurkers yesterday, without any BO or clear gameplan, but I didn't lose a single game vs bio with lurkers. The late game lurker ultra transition vs bio is a very strong one, sieging in key spots in the mid game make it way easier getting to that stage then the RR combo. The only problem is that I didn't figured out how should I play vs mech (lost 2 times vs mech), as Ultras in the late game vs mech isn't that good, but I'll try viper hydra luker queen ling (mat be brood lords as well) if a face another mech opponent, I guess it should work.
Do lurkers seem that strong because the terrans don't really know how to deal with it (played rarely vs them), or is it as strong as it seems?
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well, doesnt lurker just die against tanks? i mean yes, the terran needs a scan, but most of the time, they have one (atleast good terrans). and also, with some proper splits and stim, lurkers die rly fast, arent they?
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Well, lurkers by themselves don't do that much, they must have some support, but if they do they make me trade good defensively first, and later offensively. I use them in all the match-ups now, if it gets to the point I can use them.
Tanks didn't do that much, the only counter I found hard to play against is mass liberators with their range upgrade. In small numbers without the range upgrade the queens dealt with the liberators (meanwhile, I'm going mass queens lurker, ling bane, into late game transition, preferably ultras) but it seems like corruptors are a must for the later stage.
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Lurker versus bio leaves you very open to drops , both as harass or an all out doom drop
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are you sure? i mean, you have your queens just as normal and also lings or roaches to defend drops.
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How do you beat mass cyclone with hellion support and eventually libs?
Turns out viper blinding cloud doesn't stop lock on.
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On September 10 2016 10:49 BelialSC2 wrote:
How do you beat mass cyclone with hellion support and eventually libs?
Turns out viper blinding cloud doesn't stop lock on.
You don't want to use blinding cloud with vipers. You want to abduct the cyclones so they can't run off with their lock on.
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On September 10 2016 10:49 BelialSC2 wrote:
How do you beat mass cyclone with hellion support and eventually libs?
Turns out viper blinding cloud doesn't stop lock on.
Fungal makes them unable to kite
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On September 10 2016 10:49 BelialSC2 wrote:
How do you beat mass cyclone with hellion support and eventually libs?
Turns out viper blinding cloud doesn't stop lock on.
The few times I've seen this I just went three base spire and killed their initial army and third easily, liberators and thors come out to late because they are making the cyclones and Mutas trade more then fine.
From there you can finish the game any way you want.
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On September 10 2016 01:43 DalaiiLameR wrote:
are you sure? i mean, you have your queens just as normal and also lings or roaches to defend drops.
Ahh, yeah, kinda sure.
It not a dead end but you need to be on top of your army splitting.
I'm not talking about early game drops, but more midgame stuff, lurkers are like tanks , they are a powerful but immobile army. You can start leaving lurkers at expansions but it is a tough balance to get right.
The biggest problem thou isn't harass but an all out doom drop into your main, by the time you get your army into position your entire tech is gone and Terran can just pick up and leave and base racing a Terran from that position seems like a bad idea.
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Well if you get out your ultras then you don't have any problem vs bio anyway. And lurker tech takes same time as hive tech so using it as a step to ultras is not the case as well. So whats the point of doing them while the real problems are liberators?
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Fungal makes them unable to kite
Outranged by lock-on.
The few times I've seen this I just went three base spire and killed their initial army and third easily, liberators and thors come out to late because they are making the cyclones and Mutas trade more then fine.
From there you can finish the game any way you want.
Thanks.
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On September 10 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
Well if you get out your ultras then you don't have any problem vs bio anyway. And lurker tech takes same time as hive tech so using it as a step to ultras is not the case as well. So whats the point of doing them while the real problems are liberators?
Well, I don't know how do you win your ZvTs, this is my strongest match-up, and the way I win it is by keeping the terran on 3-4 bases, and denying his expansions while taking my 5th and 6th. I do it with the roach ravager ling into ultras style (spreading creep anywhere, and having map control), but it seems like there is a hole there (or I don't micro that well with this composition at certain scenarios).
Good terran players (or those I lose to), push before I get the ultras, and they don't push into me, but siege in places so that I can't leave my bases and harrasing them is hard with this composition. It makes me harder expanding (take the 5th). For example, games I lost on Frozen Temple with a Roach ravager ling composition in the mid game were when the terran sieged with tanks or liberators at the ramp, and by doing so I had to be way more passive, and he expanded freely.
Lurkers come before he can do that, so positioning the first lurkers at the places he can do that, with spore or two there, denying him this option, and later I can deny his bases with lurker queen ling bane (corruptors support a bit later), and even though the switch to ultras isn't as fast, I can still deny his 5th. Lurkers outrange planetaries so they are helpful at the later stage as well, and as long as his liberator count isn't that high I have all the time for the hive switch if I wan't to win it the way I usually do (deny his expansions).
I played a few more games, seems like getting the spire before the hive is important (they get liberators as soon as they discover I have lurkers), and keeping the queens in high numbers is important, as it shuts down all the early game harrass the terran can do (hellbats, double medivac drop, hellions, banshees, etc), and they can fight small number of liberators (say 4-5). By the time the terran have liberators in high numbers I get corruptors with the carrapace upgrade, so he is forced into vikings, and the late ultras with the queen lurker ling support finish the job (he is broke anyway).
I didn't play that many games with the lurkers, yet, but it seems like they worth it. Its about positioning, having the queens in high numbers, and being active with the ling bane (defensively, and offensively if I can).
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What is the proper use of corrosive bile against all three races? It seems as if it is never supposed to connect !
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On September 12 2016 19:38 OLEGSANDER wrote:
What is the proper use of corrosive bile against all three races? It seems as if it is never supposed to connect !
queue 3 biles on sieged liberator and tanks; only bile bio and medivacs if they are fungaled
bile eggs when doing ravager all-ins vs Zerg and bile the roaches in mass RvR
bile Protoss units that your ling/bane surrounds and bile pylons
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That's one short, but much needed post.
Well summarised!
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When should I be adding infestation pit and starting my Hive? I keep maxing on lair units, then remaxing on Lair if I trade armies - I'm having to remax Lair because my hive units are never ready. Should I start Hive at 7 minutes? 8?
Versus Terran, I get Ultras vs Bio / Broodlords vs mech
Versus Protoss, I get Broodlords - unless Toss has gone heavy on stargate units then I will stick with corruptor and Hydra.
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EPT
