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On December 18 2015 02:28 Maxie wrote:
3hatch before pool seems to be a popular option for ZvP, but every time I do it (almost), the toss just builds cannons at both of my expansions. How do I deal with this, just always drone scout and grab earlier pool if I scout a forge? I generally prefer not to drone scout.
The standard counter to those rushes from 5 years ago still works. Make sure to scout it, send two workers to each pylon and 3 workers to each cannon as soon as it starts building (and replace them if they die), the pylons will die right as the first cannons finish. Sack one of your two bases (but don't cancel it, make sure the guy commits to building cannons there).
If opponent actually tries to cannon rush both, you will (like described above) easily defend at least one of your bases and from then on your goal is to get to t2 nydus with 4 queens , one and a half saturated bases (3 gas) and as many roaches as you can get until then and it's gg, he won't be able to do anything about it.
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Thanks. I did go Nydus as a response to it once but he turned out to have a proxy stargate as well and it ended up being a base trade that time.
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how do I deal with Protoss who is 1 base then starts phoenix production. he then go 2 base and continue phoenix production. Then he has like 10 phoenix before I have spire/hydra !!
This is very imba build on korea master + gm right now. I can only beat with cheese all in. I tried 14 games but all lose. He pull ahead with phoenix snipes queens and single hydras
I tried :
- Mass queen : not mobile enough. wasted supply. delays tech and I have no units to contest map for map control and protoss can expand like he wants to !
- Mass spores : I lose to many drones and bad echo. Protoss then goes into expand and has more probes. Auto-loss
- Fast 2 base hydra : Lose to adepts with upgrade. No chance !
- fast spire corruptor : It is super weak and look at top, no map control, no harass for protoss expand.
- infestors : it works in first game, but they can just split the phoenixs a bit and pick up infestors
I even tried a couple of spores + a couple of queens. It don't work he just build phoenix and kill overlords, single queens, harass and picks up gas drones.
Maybe you haven't encountered this build in europe/NA yet. It is super annoying.
I can only win when ling + baneling bust off of 2 base !
I don't know what to do anymore. I trained it a bit with GM protoss, but he always win.
(please don'T tell protoss players about this build. the less protoss people know the better.)
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On December 22 2015 01:35 A_needle_jog wrote:
how do I deal with Protoss who is 1 base then starts phoenix production. he then go 2 base and continue phoenix production. Then he has like 10 phoenix before I have spire/hydra !!
This is very imba build on korea master + gm right now. I can only beat with cheese all in. I tried 14 games but all lose. He pull ahead with phoenix snipes queens and single hydras
I tried :
- Mass queen : not mobile enough. wasted supply. delays tech and I have no units to contest map for map control and protoss can expand like he wants to !
- Mass spores : I lose to many drones and bad echo. Protoss then goes into expand and has more probes. Auto-loss
- Fast 2 base hydra : Lose to adepts with upgrade. No chance !
- fast spire corruptor : It is super weak and look at top, no map control, no harass for protoss expand.
- infestors : it works in first game, but they can just split the phoenixs a bit and pick up infestors
I even tried a couple of spores + a couple of queens. It don't work he just build phoenix and kill overlords, single queens, harass and picks up gas drones.
Maybe you haven't encountered this build in europe/NA yet. It is super annoying.
I can only win when ling + baneling bust off of 2 base !
I don't know what to do anymore. I trained it a bit with GM protoss, but he always win.
(please don'T tell protoss players about this build. the less protoss people know the better.)
Have you considered using mass Zerglings to overwhelm Protoss and seize map control?
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On December 22 2015 01:57 EatingBomber wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 01:35 A_needle_jog wrote:
how do I deal with Protoss who is 1 base then starts phoenix production. he then go 2 base and continue phoenix production. Then he has like 10 phoenix before I have spire/hydra !!
This is very imba build on korea master + gm right now. I can only beat with cheese all in. I tried 14 games but all lose. He pull ahead with phoenix snipes queens and single hydras
I tried :
- Mass queen : not mobile enough. wasted supply. delays tech and I have no units to contest map for map control and protoss can expand like he wants to !
- Mass spores : I lose to many drones and bad echo. Protoss then goes into expand and has more probes. Auto-loss
- Fast 2 base hydra : Lose to adepts with upgrade. No chance !
- fast spire corruptor : It is super weak and look at top, no map control, no harass for protoss expand.
- infestors : it works in first game, but they can just split the phoenixs a bit and pick up infestors
I even tried a couple of spores + a couple of queens. It don't work he just build phoenix and kill overlords, single queens, harass and picks up gas drones.
Maybe you haven't encountered this build in europe/NA yet. It is super annoying.
I can only win when ling + baneling bust off of 2 base !
I don't know what to do anymore. I trained it a bit with GM protoss, but he always win.
(please don'T tell protoss players about this build. the less protoss people know the better.) Have you considered using mass Zerglings to overwhelm Protoss and seize map control?
You don't have the Larvae to do so 
If you use early larvae to build zerglings then you have no drones.
And later on you don't have enough larvae for zerglings because phoenix kill queens and you need to micro queens to different bases and then no injects.
It is super frustrating.
It maybe a bit better when they change pylon overcharge with the next patch, but Protoss can keep defensive lings.
You really need to try it yourself. It is so frustrating I pull my hair out. In theory it doesn't sound so bad, but in game it is like Lost Temple siege tank position !!!!! (Wings of liberty  )
Maybe if you have good player Protoss friend tell him to play 1v1. He needs to be good though !
Build is basically :
- Start 1 base Stargate
- Build phoenixes for map control and early queen/overlord/drone snipes
- Fast Expand all gas goes to phoenix
- Keep on adding Phoenix
With the phoenixes Protoss has permanent scout and sees everything. Every Lair, Every building, Every unit,
I can't counter it and I am not a bad player. Masters Korea. I play often versus GM
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Re: Mass Phoenix
It sounds like the main difference between this build, and the HotS version of the mass phoenix build is the presence of adepts makes it more difficult to know when to build lings and when to build drones. Did you encounter mass phoenix in HotS very often? It seems like you should be able to defend 3 bases against 10 phoenix with 5 well-placed spores and 5 queens.
You've got two points of economic advantage: their nexus is delayed, and they're putting all their money into phoenix rather than tech, which the phoenix won't be so useful after you get up to vipers and infestors. Good creep spread is important for scouting mass gateway all-ins, and you shouldn't be afraid to overbuild spores because of your economic advantage, which will only disappear if you lose too many drones and queens. The other issue is overreacting or underreacting to seeing adepts on the map, and not building the right number of lings.
So you've got four possible ways to make a mistake: getting the number of queens wrong, positioning your queens wrong, getting the number of spores wrong, or getting the number of lings wrong. And the right number will change at different stages of the game. So you might want only one spore at a base as long as you're mining minerals, but then two spores when you take your gas, and need to reposition the first spore.
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On December 22 2015 05:13 FlyingBeer wrote:
Re: Mass Phoenix
It sounds like the main difference between this build, and the HotS version of the mass phoenix build is the presence of adepts makes it more difficult to know when to build lings and when to build drones. Did you encounter mass phoenix in HotS very often? It seems like you should be able to defend 3 bases against 10 phoenix with 5 well-placed spores and 5 queens.
You've got two points of economic advantage: their nexus is delayed, and they're putting all their money into phoenix rather than tech, which the phoenix won't be so useful after you get up to vipers and infestors. Good creep spread is important for scouting mass gateway all-ins, and you shouldn't be afraid to overbuild spores because of your economic advantage, which will only disappear if you lose too many drones and queens. The other issue is overreacting or underreacting to seeing adepts on the map, and not building the right number of lings.
So you've got four possible ways to make a mistake: getting the number of queens wrong, positioning your queens wrong, getting the number of spores wrong, or getting the number of lings wrong. And the right number will change at different stages of the game. So you might want only one spore at a base as long as you're mining minerals, but then two spores when you take your gas, and need to reposition the first spore.
good post thank you for answer.
first phoenix and second phoenix come very early and then more and more. it is more like slow process. you are not dying but behind all game and lose to archon zealot push or something. hard to describe. people need to play against it and see how ridocolus that is
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What do you do against mech? Roach ravager doesn't seem to work well. I've read roach hydra and sure hydras might be good against liberators but they sure aren't useful against tanks.
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On December 22 2015 06:50 Maxie wrote:
What do you do against mech? Roach ravager doesn't seem to work well. I've read roach hydra and sure hydras might be good against liberators but they sure aren't useful against tanks.
infestor parasite with zerglings is very good.
baneling drops are okay versus tanks
burrow roaches are okay.
ultra + many queens with heal is good.
and of course broodlords in super late 
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On December 22 2015 06:53 A_needle_jog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 06:50 Maxie wrote:
What do you do against mech? Roach ravager doesn't seem to work well. I've read roach hydra and sure hydras might be good against liberators but they sure aren't useful against tanks. infestor parasite with zerglings is very good. baneling drops are okay versus tanks burrow roaches are okay. ultra + many queens with heal is good. and of course broodlords in super late
Won't the zerglings be useless if he has any amount of hellbats? They usually do have a decent amount of them since it's the mineral dump.
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On December 22 2015 06:45 A_needle_jog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 05:13 FlyingBeer wrote:
Re: Mass Phoenix
It sounds like the main difference between this build, and the HotS version of the mass phoenix build is the presence of adepts makes it more difficult to know when to build lings and when to build drones. Did you encounter mass phoenix in HotS very often? It seems like you should be able to defend 3 bases against 10 phoenix with 5 well-placed spores and 5 queens.
You've got two points of economic advantage: their nexus is delayed, and they're putting all their money into phoenix rather than tech, which the phoenix won't be so useful after you get up to vipers and infestors. Good creep spread is important for scouting mass gateway all-ins, and you shouldn't be afraid to overbuild spores because of your economic advantage, which will only disappear if you lose too many drones and queens. The other issue is overreacting or underreacting to seeing adepts on the map, and not building the right number of lings.
So you've got four possible ways to make a mistake: getting the number of queens wrong, positioning your queens wrong, getting the number of spores wrong, or getting the number of lings wrong. And the right number will change at different stages of the game. So you might want only one spore at a base as long as you're mining minerals, but then two spores when you take your gas, and need to reposition the first spore. good post thank you for answer. first phoenix and second phoenix come very early and then more and more. it is more like slow process. you are not dying but behind all game and lose to archon zealot push or something. hard to describe. people need to play against it and see how ridocolus that is
If he goes one base phoenix wouldn't you just be able to go spore heavy and drone hard? If he picks a few drones off just make more. If he is going 1 base phoenix his economy will be shit anyway. Mass up roaches and 1a across the map? I don't see why this wouldn't work. If he is 'massing' phoenix he won't have much economy from a 1 base start to do much else.
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Just started playing. (Late I know)
Been playing BW for ages when I was younger so I have macro, APM etc.
BUT! ZvT - What the hell do I build against mass Liberators?
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On December 23 2015 02:40 gulii wrote:
Just started playing. (Late I know)
Been playing BW for ages when I was younger so I have macro, APM etc.
BUT! ZvT - What the hell do I build against mass Liberators?
Vipers (their bomb ability) melt them
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On December 23 2015 02:40 gulii wrote:
Just started playing. (Late I know)
Been playing BW for ages when I was younger so I have macro, APM etc.
BUT! ZvT - What the hell do I build against mass Liberators?
Corruptors also counter Liberators, but yeah vipers aoe ability shreds libs :D
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Or mix in corruptors before hive. They are quite good if you magic box them or just a-move on liberators in defenders mode.
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Stargate play is picking up steam again (which is cool because it forces the Protoss to multitask) and they can wreak some havoc on Queens and drones.
Biggest mistake I see people making is dropping 1 spore per base. Even if you drop 3 (2 in mineral line one on the tip of the hatchery) sure you lost 3 drones and 75 minerals x 3 but every Phoenix is precious and costs gas, if they are losing even 1 everytime they swoop in to good Queen focus fire and 3 Spores firing away it quickly turns them into Overlord hunters and nothing more.
If they are commiting that much tech and gas to air play, drop those spores and drop em heavy.
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On December 23 2015 04:21 smOOthMayDie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2015 02:40 gulii wrote:
Just started playing. (Late I know)
Been playing BW for ages when I was younger so I have macro, APM etc.
BUT! ZvT - What the hell do I build against mass Liberators? Corruptors also counter Liberators, but yeah vipers aoe ability shreds libs :D
Haha. I keept him from expanding and went 200/200 muta and some coroptors... Baaaam. dead..
Didnt know the Liberators scaled like that... He had like 9 and some medic marine. Lol.
Ty for tip! Have not yet even gotten to build a Viper yet! Gonna try it out.
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Hope this is the right place.
New to SC2/RTS, Wood League. Primary reason things have felt smooth/easy thus far is because I've been watching a ton of Day9's old Noobie Tuesday videos and FilterSC's Bronze to Masters series (just finished 1 through 10 and noticed he has a Zerg series so that's next.)
However, this is all old content. Obviously, a lot of the generic/basic stuff is still relevant but for more current (and Zerg-focused) strategy/tips, are there any current names in the scene? (Or old names that have a Zerg focus, as Day9 = Protoss & FilterSC = Terran)
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On December 23 2015 05:39 Blaqq wrote:
Hope this is the right place.
New to SC2/RTS, Wood League. Primary reason things have felt smooth/easy thus far is because I've been watching a ton of Day9's old Noobie Tuesday videos and FilterSC's Bronze to Masters series (just finished 1 through 10 and noticed he has a Zerg series so that's next.)
However, this is all old content. Obviously, a lot of the generic/basic stuff is still relevant but for more current (and Zerg-focused) strategy/tips, are there any current names in the scene? (Or old names that have a Zerg focus, as Day9 = Protoss & FilterSC = Terran)
There's blade55555, pigstarcraft, lowko, catz and luppa. Someone made this thread on battle.net that has some good stuff in it:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20042845291
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On December 23 2015 03:23 heishe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2015 02:40 gulii wrote:
Just started playing. (Late I know)
Been playing BW for ages when I was younger so I have macro, APM etc.
BUT! ZvT - What the hell do I build against mass Liberators? Vipers (their bomb ability) melt them
Not anymore - PB nerf is going to cause some serious problems with that matchup
Just played some koreans today who used mass lib and marine as their end game comp and it was pretty broken. Everything on the ground gets shredded and corruptors can't deal with mass lib so you're left with vipers as your only counter except 1) PB is very expensive 2) vipers are very expensive and will die while PB'ing 3) the damage nerf cripples PB vs liberators
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EPT
