WCSThe LotV Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 3
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AbouSV
France1161 Posts
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poelinca443
21 Posts
On December 11 2015 16:45 Cookie wrote: I just got crushed by a early terran push on orbital shipyard that had around 10 marines, 2 tanks and 2 liberators. I opened the standard 17/17 into 3rd hatch with a couple roaches, 2 extra queens, and a couple lings. My ramp was sieged by both liberators and tank making it impossible to engage. When I sent in my ovy, I noticed reactored marines, techlab on factory and a starport, so I assumed it was some sort of drop or defensive play for a fast 3rd. What is should I have done to counter this? - drop with the overlords, it's the easiest solution since you already have an evo chamber by then right ? - borrow movement for roaches if you have lair - nydus worm if you have lair I personally prefer to bane bust T before the natural is saturated tough, but i'm only Silver and i do not do well mid/late game because of too many tasks and i panic a lot. | ||
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HellHound
Bulgaria5962 Posts
On December 11 2015 18:18 TequilaMockingbird wrote: Hi. Low masters Z here. How exactly am I supposed to beat just the very standard bio comp in LotV ? My ZvT from 60-ish in HotS to below 40 in LotV. I find myself losing to terrans with half my apm, and not because they cheese me but just because I am absolutely clueless what to do against bio+liberator. Like I dont even have the vaguest idea really. I tried to stick with muta/ling/bling but that gets annihilated by liberators+mines. I tried the lurker into ultra thing but probably I am just too bad for that style, i dont know, i have maybe won 1 out of 7 or 8 games with it. Either they drop the life out of me or mostly they actually just role over me before I have Ultras out. Every Terran always tells me "lololol you get the composition wrong. Just roach-ravager and aclick lolol Z so easy". So I tried that (without really knowing detailed BOs for that style). But its the same. Bio just rolls me with like the first or second big push out. Like I said I dont even have the vaguest idea at this point. PS: sorry if I come across as raging but I havent been this frustrated with a match-up in a very long time ROach raveger is popular atm 5 gas dark zvt style also works fine. get corruptors instead of mutas and only build around 8 so terran doesn't have free rain in the skies then mass ling bane | ||
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HellHound
Bulgaria5962 Posts
On December 11 2015 16:45 Cookie wrote: I just got crushed by a early terran push on orbital shipyard that had around 10 marines, 2 tanks and 2 liberators. I opened the standard 17/17 into 3rd hatch with a couple roaches, 2 extra queens, and a couple lings. My ramp was sieged by both liberators and tank making it impossible to engage. When I sent in my ovy, I noticed reactored marines, techlab on factory and a starport, so I assumed it was some sort of drop or defensive play for a fast 3rd. What is should I have done to counter this? mass lings when you see the move out after second injects go kill the push. Back to drones. | ||
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cop354g
61 Posts
I never have enough units to kill void rays despite and because of having 3-4 bases. So it always feels as depressing that I cant do anything about it and I am just waiting for protoss to win the game with void rays. I am always busy and keeping money low and building shit as fast as I can and not being supply capped but I never have enough units, what the fuck is that? Also hydras absolutely melt when protoss also builds colossus with void rays, so how to deal with that in time? How to win protos massing void rays (+colossus)? | ||
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blade55555
United States17371 Posts
On December 11 2015 18:18 TequilaMockingbird wrote: Hi. Low masters Z here. How exactly am I supposed to beat just the very standard bio comp in LotV ? My ZvT from 60-ish in HotS to below 40 in LotV. I find myself losing to terrans with half my apm, and not because they cheese me but just because I am absolutely clueless what to do against bio+liberator. Like I dont even have the vaguest idea really. I tried to stick with muta/ling/bling but that gets annihilated by liberators+mines. I tried the lurker into ultra thing but probably I am just too bad for that style, i dont know, i have maybe won 1 out of 7 or 8 games with it. Either they drop the life out of me or mostly they actually just role over me before I have Ultras out. Every Terran always tells me "lololol you get the composition wrong. Just roach-ravager and aclick lolol Z so easy". So I tried that (without really knowing detailed BOs for that style). But its the same. Bio just rolls me with like the first or second big push out. Like I said I dont even have the vaguest idea at this point. PS: sorry if I come across as raging but I havent been this frustrated with a match-up in a very long time So against bio+liberator you want to get corruptors. Corruptor + ling/bane or corruptor + roach/ravager(roach/hydra) will be a lot easier to deal with liberator focused armies. As you have figured out Liberators dominate Muta's once they hit a certain point. You should also be going hive pretty quickly after getting to Lair. A general hive timing when doing any sort of ling/bane focused build is almost as soon as you start 2/2. Once you start that, start Hive. You'll have a lot more success doing this then muta and dying when you see liberators. If you go Muta you shouldn't make much (10-12 imo, 15 at the absolute most) and once you see liberators transition into corruptors. On December 11 2015 23:54 cop354g wrote: How to win protos who sits on base massing void rays? I have been taking expansions and droning up but it always results in loss because I simply cannot drone and make enough units to defend the incoming void ray assault. If I make hydras too soon, I have not enough economy to back it up and trying to bruteforce into protoss base is absolutely futile and wasting that time waiting for protoss with making units with bad economy also results in loss because too few units. I never have enough units to kill void rays despite and because of having 3-4 bases. So it always feels as depressing that I cant do anything about it and I am just waiting for protoss to win the game with void rays. I am always busy and keeping money low and building shit as fast as I can and not being supply capped but I never have enough units, what the fuck is that? Also hydras absolutely melt when protoss also builds colossus with void rays, so how to deal with that in time? How to win protos massing void rays (+colossus)? So the easiest way to beat this is viper/ultra tbh. You should easily have the time to get vipers out well before he pushes if fhe is doing a voidray/colossi build. Honestly Hydra/lurker/ultra/viper would crush this comp so bad. Even without Lurkers hydra/viper/ultra would crush it. The Viper makes those mass voidray strategies really bad now of days and it really sounds like you aren't making them which is why you are struggling right now. The only way I can see you beating mass voidray comps without vipers is hydra/lurker -> hydra/lurker/ultra if for hypothetically the Viper didn't exist. | ||
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cop354g
61 Posts
Protoss can mass units from 1-2 base, while zerg has to drone alot to get "ahead" but it also means that zerg is not actually ahead but behind since you wont win the game with minerals, you win game with units. So please, enlighten me what the fuck I should be doing? People always say "take the map, expand" but that doesnt help at all when protoss just walks from 1-2 base with really powerful army and I am supposed to beat enemy by having more minerals? ------------------------------------ Here are two replays where I would appreaciate feedback how I am playing this game wrong. http://ggtracker.com/matches/6313358 http://ggtracker.com/matches/6313360 As you see, I am losing games against opponents with inferior mechanics, but it doesnt stop those baddies from rolling through me with worse mechanics. | ||
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smOOthMayDie
United States699 Posts
Last night I must have played 20 zvz's and I was very successful going 13/12 until I faced this one dude three times in a row, and he beat me every single time. He went 14 hatch, 13 gas, 12 pool. By the time my intial 6-8 lings reached his base (this was on a 2 player map) he had more zerglings on his side of the map, with the 2nd hatchery already finished and his baneling nest was essentially done several seconds after mine. our banelings traded equally on each other but he overran me with lings because of the 2nd hatch. I tried this build for my final game of the night, and it was also very successful against 13/12. Is there a downside to going 14/13/12? | ||
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flyleaf
Germany89 Posts
On December 14 2015 23:48 smOOthMayDie wrote: Is there a downside to going 14/13/12? Good to hold allins - bad eco versus hatch first with not much potential to do damage. It's not like having the early hatch makes up for the missing drones. | ||
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Frankie Teardrop
United States74 Posts
The adept harass keeps me from denying/delaying his 3rd base and allows him to stay roughly even in economy with me. I take my 4th when I see he takes a 3rd and try to tech for mutas once I scout a robo bay, but it's always too little too late. By the time my mutas are out, he already has disruptors and way more than enough stalkers to keep my mutas from doing anything. Anybody know how to play against this? It's been so long since I've won a game vs protoss and it's getting quite frustrating.  | ||
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blade55555
United States17371 Posts
I am personally find it much easier to hold adept pushes with roach/ling and have stopped trying to deny the Protoss third at this point. I feel it's safer to just grab a forth, skip mutalisks completely and instead go lurkers while teching to hive. If you go mutalisks you will pretty much have to base trade if he does a 3 base timing (unless he's going very little AA). Or you can go faster lair, get mutalisks and you should be fine. In general though you don't want to be starting mutalisk production if he's pushing across the map before your spire is done. | ||
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Moosegills
United States558 Posts
Great ZvZ matchups in Solar vs Dark and DRG vs Life as well as a ZvT Symbol vs Sorry. Make sure to check it out if you get a chance I'm sure there will be lots to learn. | ||
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poelinca443
21 Posts
On December 12 2015 00:58 cop354g wrote: Ultras come too late, void rays come well before hive so for the same reason Viper is not an option and I wouldnt have money for it either. Also how do I prepare for assault when I have to drone and have zero units? And if I make units, im not droning so either way its loss. And making both drones and units doesnt seem to work out. Protoss can mass units from 1-2 base, while zerg has to drone alot to get "ahead" but it also means that zerg is not actually ahead but behind since you wont win the game with minerals, you win game with units. So please, enlighten me what the fuck I should be doing? People always say "take the map, expand" but that doesnt help at all when protoss just walks from 1-2 base with really powerful army and I am supposed to beat enemy by having more minerals? ------------------------------------ Here are two replays where I would appreaciate feedback how I am playing this game wrong. http://ggtracker.com/matches/6313358 http://ggtracker.com/matches/6313360 As you see, I am losing games against opponents with inferior mechanics, but it doesnt stop those baddies from rolling through me with worse mechanics. Pressure him sooner, before it gets out of hand -> scout scout scout, mass air is very easy to spot. I have won games against P massing voids with pure zerglings because he has to stay in base to defend, he can't move his voids out. My bases are secured with 2 spores and 2 queens per hatch for transfuses before the zerglings are dead and P has no economy left. Maybe banes to bust the wall and the P will feel bad going for mass air, if you have infestation pit the vipers/infestors keep them P air units at bay. You can also go for 3 base spire play, the P will only have a handful of viods out while you can spam mutas and f him up. In short terms, you need to react, you need to scout sooner. I send my first two overlords out to his base 1st ovi goes in when it gets there, second ovi goes in once the lair is finished (lair should be finished before you hit 3 hatch saturation). | ||
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smOOthMayDie
United States699 Posts
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flyleaf
Germany89 Posts
On December 16 2015 23:09 smOOthMayDie wrote: is the nydus/roach/queen build in ZvT still very very strong? Not so much in my opinion, a lot of Terrans are opening really save right now with a lot of tanks because of Roach/Ravager playstyles. I guess it can work but my ratio isnt good anymore. | ||
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therealkillemall
Spain30 Posts
First of all, I dont know if it's sensible letting P take expansions for free and mass air units (even if you play extremely greedy). Second, how should be engaged that kind of army? Parasitic bomb is pretty good against air, but vipers get hard countered by HT's... I've tried base racing whenever the P fleet leaves home, but it seems to me a bit of a coinflip due to high count of cannons and mass recall available. Any good adivce? Thank you all. | ||
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crazedrat
272 Posts
On December 11 2015 18:18 TequilaMockingbird wrote: Hi. Low masters Z here. How exactly am I supposed to beat just the very standard bio comp in LotV ? My ZvT from 60-ish in HotS to below 40 in LotV. I find myself losing to terrans with half my apm, and not because they cheese me but just because I am absolutely clueless what to do against bio+liberator. Like I dont even have the vaguest idea really. I tried to stick with muta/ling/bling but that gets annihilated by liberators+mines. I tried the lurker into ultra thing but probably I am just too bad for that style, i dont know, i have maybe won 1 out of 7 or 8 games with it. Either they drop the life out of me or mostly they actually just role over me before I have Ultras out. Every Terran always tells me "lololol you get the composition wrong. Just roach-ravager and aclick lolol Z so easy". So I tried that (without really knowing detailed BOs for that style). But its the same. Bio just rolls me with like the first or second big push out. Like I said I dont even have the vaguest idea at this point. PS: sorry if I come across as raging but I havent been this frustrated with a match-up in a very long time ling hydra baneling is good, you can add lurkers if you need them. Just tech to ultras and you'll be doing very well, hydras do fine against liberators | ||
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Beelzebub1
629 Posts
I'm not really sure what to do towards the end game once the Terran realizes he is losing the ground battle, he will start mass producing Liberators, and at that point the game usually turns south for me as the Liberators in numbers past 8 completely lock the area down around them, you simply cannot step in the circle not even with Ultralisks, and when the Terran puts 8+ circles around your outlying bases I feel you have no choice but to forfeit the expansion and attempt a counterattack, problem there is the Terran can take your base for free and their base is almost always a planetary fortress. How to I guess seal the deal if you get favorable mid game engagements? It seems going late game vs Terran is ill advised as you will not be able to cost efficiently defend your outward expansions while the Terran can just planetary/turrets and you have to commit substantial resources to killing it. Even engaging into the army is highly difficult, Liberators do absolutely juuuust fine against Corruptors unless your Corruptors are heavily upgraded which is tons and tons of gas that you really need for Ultralisks and ground upgrades as you have already sunk gas into +2 ranged attack. PB is cool but Vipers are unwieldy, get popped by anything and if the Terran is decent enough to just semi spread his Liberators it's pretty impotent. | ||
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MessiTheMessiah
1 Post
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Maxie
Sweden2653 Posts
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