On January 06 2016 12:18 chipmonklord17 wrote: How do you guys larva inject? I currently have one control group with each individual queen + hatch but am looking to change my hotkey setup completely.
I have tried many, I ultimately decided to go with the standard camera hotkey + box queen method. Most simple and effective imo.
Can you explain how this works?
You use camera location hotkeys to swap between bases while quickly boxing and injecting with the queen on the hatchery
Thank you this definitely seems to be the winner. How do you handle inject in the late game with 4 or 5 hatches? Or do you just inject the first few
I go up to 5 base no problems; I could go up to ten theoretically but it isn't worth it for time efficiency or usage. Going higher then five bases for inject locations doesn't make sense since (IMO) it is too far away from your main base and too easy to snipe. Instead you are better having macro hatches next to your other hatches with their own queens. In which case you do not need a new camera location
I use f1- f5 for my camera locations and use them for injecting.
And when you build your 6:th base hatchery, you will have enough larvae even if the 6:th one isn't injected. You could even argue that you shouldn't waste supply on the queen.
I have moved my camera hotkeys to WERT and 45, and inject (and rapid fire) to Q. Makes it soooo smooth to jump between bases when you are harassed, transfering drones etc, even for a lowly gold like me that can't even touch type that well.
Another point is that if you (like me, and everyone else in gold and below) accumulate queens with 75+ energy in the late game, you can queue up your 3+ injects quickly by holding down shift and the rapid fire inject key while mouseover the hatchery. Then you can keep your hatcheries constantly injected even if you only come back every 3+ inject cycles and refresh the queue. So while it's slower, you don't have to do it exactly the second it pops.
On January 06 2016 12:18 chipmonklord17 wrote: How do you guys larva inject? I currently have one control group with each individual queen + hatch but am looking to change my hotkey setup completely.
I have tried many, I ultimately decided to go with the standard camera hotkey + box queen method. Most simple and effective imo.
Can you explain how this works?
You use camera location hotkeys to swap between bases while quickly boxing and injecting with the queen on the hatchery
Thank you this definitely seems to be the winner. How do you handle inject in the late game with 4 or 5 hatches? Or do you just inject the first few
I go up to 5 base no problems; I could go up to ten theoretically but it isn't worth it for time efficiency or usage. Going higher then five bases for inject locations doesn't make sense since (IMO) it is too far away from your main base and too easy to snipe. Instead you are better having macro hatches next to your other hatches with their own queens. In which case you do not need a new camera location
I use f1- f5 for my camera locations and use them for injecting.
And when you build your 6:th base hatchery, you will have enough larvae even if the 6:th one isn't injected. You could even argue that you shouldn't waste supply on the queen.
I have moved my camera hotkeys to WERT and 45, and inject (and rapid fire) to Q. Makes it soooo smooth to jump between bases when you are harassed, transfering drones etc, even for a lowly gold like me that can't even touch type that well.
Another point is that if you (like me, and everyone else in gold and below) accumulate queens with 75+ energy in the late game, you can queue up your 3+ injects quickly by holding down shift and the rapid fire inject key while mouseover the hatchery. Then you can keep your hatcheries constantly injected even if you only come back every 3+ inject cycles and refresh the queue. So while it's slower, you don't have to do it exactly the second it pops.
I'd love to use inject on rapid fire but I use creep tumour for that. I can't afford to remove that bad boy!
On January 06 2016 12:18 chipmonklord17 wrote: How do you guys larva inject? I currently have one control group with each individual queen + hatch but am looking to change my hotkey setup completely.
I have tried many, I ultimately decided to go with the standard camera hotkey + box queen method. Most simple and effective imo.
Can you explain how this works?
You use camera location hotkeys to swap between bases while quickly boxing and injecting with the queen on the hatchery
Thank you this definitely seems to be the winner. How do you handle inject in the late game with 4 or 5 hatches? Or do you just inject the first few
I go up to 5 base no problems; I could go up to ten theoretically but it isn't worth it for time efficiency or usage. Going higher then five bases for inject locations doesn't make sense since (IMO) it is too far away from your main base and too easy to snipe. Instead you are better having macro hatches next to your other hatches with their own queens. In which case you do not need a new camera location
I use f1- f5 for my camera locations and use them for injecting.
And when you build your 6:th base hatchery, you will have enough larvae even if the 6:th one isn't injected. You could even argue that you shouldn't waste supply on the queen.
I have moved my camera hotkeys to WERT and 45, and inject (and rapid fire) to Q. Makes it soooo smooth to jump between bases when you are harassed, transfering drones etc, even for a lowly gold like me that can't even touch type that well.
Another point is that if you (like me, and everyone else in gold and below) accumulate queens with 75+ energy in the late game, you can queue up your 3+ injects quickly by holding down shift and the rapid fire inject key while mouseover the hatchery. Then you can keep your hatcheries constantly injected even if you only come back every 3+ inject cycles and refresh the queue. So while it's slower, you don't have to do it exactly the second it pops.
I'd love to use inject on rapid fire but I use creep tumour for that. I can't afford to remove that bad boy!
You can still have rapid fire on the creep tumors themselves, only not on the queens dropping the first tumor. I'm fine with shift-clicking the first set of tumors from the queen I think. I get more control over how many and where they end up, and I inject a lot more than I put down initiating tumors in a game anyway. I guess that comes down to preference.
I have rapid fire on the queens tumor spell, but i never use it. I do like cascade, shift + click to control how many tumors i do. During the mid game, i like to keep 50 energy on my creeping queens just in case of a emergency transfuse.
Good call, I tend to use rapid fire off the tumours themselves and use shift C for the queen ability. I might need to switch that...I have altered so many hotkeys this expansion.
On January 08 2016 02:55 GGzerG wrote: You can absolutely go Hydra / Ling vs Pheonix openers and punish the Protoss with a strong push, you don't always have to go corrupter vs Pheonix.
Doesn't quite work like that well.
Phoenixes are out too fast. If you go Hydra Ling push/nydus then you need to do it as an all in. Also Phoenixes do hard counter Hydra if the numbers are about even.
In my opinion corruptor are the only way to go currently. I said it for weeks now (scroll back pages) announcing the impending doom of Zerg by the all-mighty Phoenix.
Has anyone seen the Archon mode Korean match with True & Soulkey? It is the best example ever to see what I mean. Here is perfectly seen what I talking about : http://www.twitch.tv/basetradetv/v/33889137 go to time : 3:35:00 ~ roughly game.
They cannot win. This is what I am talking about since weeks. Protoss go Adept -> Phoenix and then Zerg is behind. There is no way to avoid it (especially on this map!).
The most funny thing is. Same thing happens earlier before ! Same matchup and same strategy. Zerg can't counter it. Loss is unavoidable. Look both matches. One at 1:43:00 ~ and other at 3:35:00 like mentioned above.
I am afraid of this strategy. I cannot beat it. When I see it on ladder I go all-in because with good management you can't beat it except if you heavily outskill opponent, but in korea there are good protoss player who are better than me.
Just look at the supply and the follow up of protoss. Then you know what I am talking about.
(All in post is my personal opinion of balance and game. You can have different opinion we are all free humans with own mind. Have a nice day friends)
On January 08 2016 02:55 GGzerG wrote: You can absolutely go Hydra / Ling vs Pheonix openers and punish the Protoss with a strong push, you don't always have to go corrupter vs Pheonix.
Sure you can go Hydra/ling, but it's not very good imo. If you push with that, you are essentially all in. As it is right now a good protoss should be able to defend a hydra/ling attack with adepts, phoenix and pylon overcharge with relative ease. I tried it once, didn't work out well.
- Chargelots (kind of if they don't have roach as tank) - Archons - Adepts (with upgrade)
Hydra is my favorite Unit in Starcraft Universe, but sad it is so weak in LOTV/SC2. I wish they would nerf other units and buff hydras. That would be so cool and I would be more happy than twitch streamer after huge donations
Hi! I've been having trouble lately in zvt. I like to open 18 hatch-18 pool gasless and take 2 gases at 3:00. My problem is double rax reaper openings. The moment I see it, I take my gases and a roach warren (but seems too late). If you drone scout it, what is the best response? Skip speed and go straight for roaches? How many roaches? Every time I build roaches that early I feel like I am really behind.
I would also apreciate advice regarding mech. I don't know what composition I should be going to. Do roach-hydra-viper timings still work?
On January 08 2016 16:39 therealkillemall wrote: Hi! I've been having trouble lately in zvt. I like to open 18 hatch-18 pool gasless and take 2 gases at 3:00. My problem is double rax reaper openings. The moment I see it, I take my gases and a roach warren (but seems too late). If you drone scout it, what is the best response? Skip speed and go straight for roaches? How many roaches? Every time I build roaches that early I feel like I am really behind.
I would also apreciate advice regarding mech. I don't know what composition I should be going to. Do roach-hydra-viper timings still work?
Thank you all.
You have to play 17 hatch 17 gas 17 pool and get fast speed upgrade for minizergdogs versus terran and overwhelm early reaper opening with speedlings. There is sadly no other way. You can add a fast roach warren, but I think best way is doing it like pro gamers.
- drone scout at 16~ drones on 2 player maps. drone scout at 14 drones on 4 player maps - 17 hatch - 17 gas when about 100 mins - 17 pool - 19 overlord - save up larvae for 4-6 zerglings - build 2 queens (one in each hatch) - start speed upgrade - if your drone scout sees 2-3 rax then add more zerling and/or roach warren - defend with micro. important to hit injects - add another queen for creep spread - add roach if too many reaper - surround reaper with lings - morph roaches that are low on HP into ravager - when you defend reaper take third base and drone or attack enemy with your army
it takes some practice to know the map where reaper can go. when you have enough matches it becomes easier to defend. first couple of matches you probably gonna struggle with injects and micro, but after about 5-10 ZvTs with reaper you will get the hang of it!
Anyone got some general advice regarding nydusing in the different matchups? Like, what a good timing to for it can be, and how many roaches/queens should I have before starting it?
On January 09 2016 02:20 Maxie wrote: Anyone got some general advice regarding nydusing in the different matchups? Like, what a good timing to for it can be, and how many roaches/queens should I have before starting it?
3 queens with enough Injects. Atleast 8 roaches Timing should be as fast as possible if you wait too long opponent has too many strong units like archon, dt, immortal or marauder, tank, liberator.
On January 09 2016 02:20 Maxie wrote: Anyone got some general advice regarding nydusing in the different matchups? Like, what a good timing to for it can be, and how many roaches/queens should I have before starting it?
There was a nydus on dusk towers hyan vs dream game 1 of gsl last night. At 4:30 the nydus popped and hyun had 4-5 roaches and 3 queens in the T main.
On January 09 2016 02:20 Maxie wrote: Anyone got some general advice regarding nydusing in the different matchups? Like, what a good timing to for it can be, and how many roaches/queens should I have before starting it?
for zvt:
Here is a good nydus build Firecake's nydus build is good as well, you can find it in the last hsc replay pack, he've won 3-4 games with the same build
for zvp: nydus builds are really bad, there used to be nydus lurker but they delayed the lurker den time into eternity so its not viable anymore
On January 08 2016 16:39 therealkillemall wrote: Hi! I've been having trouble lately in zvt. I like to open 18 hatch-18 pool gasless and take 2 gases at 3:00. My problem is double rax reaper openings. The moment I see it, I take my gases and a roach warren (but seems too late). If you drone scout it, what is the best response? Skip speed and go straight for roaches? How many roaches? Every time I build roaches that early I feel like I am really behind.
I would also apreciate advice regarding mech. I don't know what composition I should be going to. Do roach-hydra-viper timings still work?
Thank you all.
As others said, I would strongly recommend a speedopening.
Regarding the mech comp: I had great trouble with roach-hydra because Cyclones keep kiting them. Infestors work great but then you may have problems with your gas. I currently play Infestor/zerglings/roaches (zerglings are great against cyclones but you need those roaches against hellbats). It's not as gas-heavy as infestor/hydra/roach so you can tech to hive much earlier and get BLs/Vipers.
It's a Terran one base four Thor repair all-in that killed all my bases and yet ends up with me taking the game due to a ridiculously passive followup by Terran. Take a look and get a good laugh. Now, I won this game but I should have lost, the question is, how should I have reacted when I scouted the 1-base to hold the thor rush? I'm guessing just having the banes out earlier might have done the trick, thoughts?
It's a Terran one base four Thor repair all-in that killed all my bases and yet ends up with me taking the game due to a ridiculously passive followup by Terran. Take a look and get a good laugh. Now, I won this game but I should have lost, the question is, how should I have reacted when I scouted the 1-base to hold the thor rush? I'm guessing just having the banes out earlier might have done the trick, thoughts?
p.s. Battlecruisers, seriously.
You scout he's still on 1 base at 3.30, and scout he has 2 factories, then you build spores, no roach warren, then continue droning your third. You take a bunch of damage on your right hand overlord so you can't scout his main properly. You're trying to overlord scout at 2.50 which is too early to see anything.
My standard timings are: 3:15 Roach Warren 3:30 Sack overlord in main 3:45 Third, then 4 roaches and a few lings for safety (unless I saw a 3rd CC in which case delay the units)
You can still go into ling/bane/muta with this build.
Even if you don't want to use roaches as standard, you should still drop a roach warren at 3.30 in this game because you saw no expo and 2 factories, then when your lings at his front scouted his Thors moving out at 5.40 you could have easily built enough roaches to deal with it (you have 60 seconds before they get to your base).
It's a Terran one base four Thor repair all-in that killed all my bases and yet ends up with me taking the game due to a ridiculously passive followup by Terran. Take a look and get a good laugh. Now, I won this game but I should have lost, the question is, how should I have reacted when I scouted the 1-base to hold the thor rush? I'm guessing just having the banes out earlier might have done the trick, thoughts?
p.s. Battlecruisers, seriously.
You scout he's still on 1 base at 3.30, and scout he has 2 factories, then you build spores, no roach warren, then continue droning your third. You take a bunch of damage on your right hand overlord so you can't scout his main properly. You're trying to overlord scout at 2.50 which is too early to see anything.
My standard timings are: 3:15 Roach Warren 3:30 Sack overlord in main 3:45 Third, then 4 roaches and a few lings for safety (unless I saw a 3rd CC in which case delay the units)
You can still go into ling/bane/muta with this build.
Even if you don't want to use roaches as standard, you should still drop a roach warren at 3.30 in this game because you saw no expo and 2 factories, then when your lings at his front scouted his Thors moving out at 5.40 you could have easily built enough roaches to deal with it (you have 60 seconds before they get to your base).
I agree with your points on scouting and timings, like I said, this was a real sloppy game by me, but I'm not so sure about roaches being a good counter to this, I did some tests with 'unit tester' map and here are the numbers.
He hits me with 4 thors, 6 marines, 6 scvs. Beating that with straight up roaches takes 25+ roaches for a narrow win, that's 1875 minerals 625 gas 50 supply ( + 300 minerals supply diff). Beating the same with lingBane takes 50 ling 10 banes for a very decisive win with 1750 minerals 250 gas 30 supply.
I think I mostly over droned on the third base and needed to drop the bane nest eariler, thou I agree that a safety warren would have been the right play as well, no to mention your other timing tips.
Hi everyone. I'm a returning Zerg player, was a mid-Platinum HOTS Zerg player but slowly moved away from the game due to time constraints. I wanted to come back but I have no idea what BOs to use for each matchup. I'm looking for standard macro BOs but there are no guides around . The only thing I've come up with is:
13 ovie 17 hatch 18 gas 18 pool 18/19 ovie @100% pool-> 2 queens and 2 pairs of lings @100 gas ling speed -> pull 2 drones from gas 3:15-3:20 sac ovie @2 base saturation->3rd hatch at expo
This is a rough draft of what I have but I don't know what else there is.
EPT
. The only thing I've come up with is:
