EPTThen what is go-to build in tvt
The LotV Terran Help Me Thread - Page 19
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GreenHealing
82 Posts
Then what is go-to build in tvt | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
You can defend 3rax reaper with a 1rax reaper expo on Dusk Towers and Ruins of Seras. I 2rax reaper on the other maps I have unvetoed (Lerilak, Prion, and Orbital.) 2rax reaper can defend 3rax reaper if you micro well as long as you scv scout and rush into a factory, and don't mess up your micro. | ||
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GreenHealing
82 Posts
On January 14 2016 08:11 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: You can defend 3rax reaper with a 1rax reaper expo on Dusk Towers and Ruins of Seras. I 2rax reaper on the other maps I have unvetoed (Lerilak, Prion, and Orbital.) 2rax reaper can defend 3rax reaper if you micro well as long as you scv scout and rush into a factory, and don't mess up your micro. Why can you hold it on Dusk tower but not on Orbital or prion? How do you even hold with 1rax expand? you have so few units | ||
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Jakamakala
United States115 Posts
If reaper FE was your "go to" build in TvT then you have a ton of work to do. Wasn't even that great in HoTS, and far worse in Legacy. Double Gas Double Reaper Double Hellion into cloaked banshee is the most normal build, and is safe vs proxy reaper, and does okay vs proxy marine, though an SCV scout will seal the deal. | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On January 14 2016 08:26 GreenHealing wrote: Why can you hold it on Dusk tower but not on Orbital or prion? How do you even hold with 1rax expand? you have so few units Dusk towers has only 2 places where the reaper can jump up. You put a bunker over one and then you can position your units with some scvs over the other one, and you've defended. On Orbital there is one spot and then a long stretch of cliff, and Prion has 2 spots but they are quite far from each other. Even on Dusk Towers it's a tough hold, but it's doable. @Jakamakala I think the only thing that makes it worse in Legacy are reapers, but if you don't get hit by a reaper build, I don't see why it would be worse. I haven't run into any issues other than reaper in high masters, but maybe I'm missing something. Other than 3rax reaper, what is it bad against? | ||
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Jakamakala
United States115 Posts
On January 14 2016 13:45 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: Dusk towers has only 2 places where the reaper can jump up. You put a bunker over one and then you can position your units with some scvs over the other one, and you've defended. On Orbital there is one spot and then a long stretch of cliff, and Prion has 2 spots but they are quite far from each other. Even on Dusk Towers it's a tough hold, but it's doable. @Jakamakala I think the only thing that makes it worse in Legacy are reapers, but if you don't get hit by a reaper build, I don't see why it would be worse. I haven't run into any issues other than reaper in high masters, but maybe I'm missing something. Other than 3rax reaper, what is it bad against? The 12 worker start allows Terran to be able to open double gas while having enough minerals to go for both reaper and factory with absolutely ZERO delay on the factory, allowing for a double reaper double hellion opening that outright crushes reaper FE. Here's a game: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6399853 EDIT: Sorry double for double post somehow. | ||
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Jakamakala
United States115 Posts
On January 14 2016 13:45 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: Dusk towers has only 2 places where the reaper can jump up. You put a bunker over one and then you can position your units with some scvs over the other one, and you've defended. On Orbital there is one spot and then a long stretch of cliff, and Prion has 2 spots but they are quite far from each other. Even on Dusk Towers it's a tough hold, but it's doable. @Jakamakala I think the only thing that makes it worse in Legacy are reapers, but if you don't get hit by a reaper build, I don't see why it would be worse. I haven't run into any issues other than reaper in high masters, but maybe I'm missing something. Other than 3rax reaper, what is it bad against? The 12 worker start allows Terran to be able to open double gas while having enough minerals to go for both reaper and factory with absolutely ZERO delay on the factory, allowing for a double reaper double hellion opening that outright crushes reaper FE. Opening gas first rax double gas in HoTS means you have something like 5 scvs on minerals (which would suck obviously). Here's a game vs a mid GM: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6399853 http://ggtracker.com/matches/6400070 | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On January 14 2016 14:36 Jakamakala wrote: The 12 worker start allows Terran to be able to open double gas while having enough minerals to go for both reaper and factory with absolutely ZERO delay on the factory, allowing for a double reaper double hellion opening that outright crushes reaper FE. Opening gas first rax double gas in HoTS means you have something like 5 scvs on minerals (which would suck obviously). Here's a game vs a mid GM: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6399853 Yeah, that's why I'm only doing it on Dusk (backdoor natural) and Ruins of Seras (huge as shit.) | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On January 14 2016 13:14 Jakamakala wrote: If reaper FE was your "go to" build in TvT then you have a ton of work to do. Wasn't even that great in HoTS, and far worse in Legacy. Double Gas Double Reaper Double Hellion into cloaked banshee is the most normal build, and is safe vs proxy reaper, and does okay vs proxy marine, though an SCV scout will seal the deal. I know you are alot higher ranked than me, but as Master I really see that build rarely. I generally do a (double) reaper FE myself, and I see quite some of my opponents doing it too. Besides that I see fast cloakshees (but without the hellions generally), although more generally some kind of 1-1-1 tank medivac push. Where if I hold it, I am ahead. (Okay granted, TvT is not my best matchup, but also not my worst). Against reapers i simply do SCV scout, if he is going 3-rax reapers, I add more raxes and do it myself too. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On January 14 2016 17:02 Sissors wrote: I know you are alot higher ranked than me, but as Master I really see that build rarely. I generally do a (double) reaper FE myself, and I see quite some of my opponents doing it too. Besides that I see fast cloakshees (but without the hellions generally), although more generally some kind of 1-1-1 tank medivac push. Where if I hold it, I am ahead. (Okay granted, TvT is not my best matchup, but also not my worst). Against reapers i simply do SCV scout, if he is going 3-rax reapers, I add more raxes and do it myself too. 16 rax 16 gas reactor first seems to be solid too. Vs 3 rax reapers you can build a bunker and/or an additional barracks to hold it. | ||
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Jakamakala
United States115 Posts
On January 14 2016 17:02 Sissors wrote: I know you are alot higher ranked than me, but as Master I really see that build rarely. I generally do a (double) reaper FE myself, and I see quite some of my opponents doing it too. Besides that I see fast cloakshees (but without the hellions generally), although more generally some kind of 1-1-1 tank medivac push. Where if I hold it, I am ahead. (Okay granted, TvT is not my best matchup, but also not my worst). Against reapers i simply do SCV scout, if he is going 3-rax reapers, I add more raxes and do it myself too. 1/1/1 tank medivac can just die to a banshee unless the guy is banking mad scans. Getting a Raven would delay the push beyond any significant timing. The reaper hellion is nice because in LoTV the reapers and hells dont delay your banshee at all, and against someone who just has 2 reapers the 2 reaper 1 hellion timing will win, and then proceed to munch on SCVs or kill the front depots (KD8 grenades damage buildings for faster work). It'll also deny the natural. For references, check my games vs DarkIce that i posted above. | ||
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GreenHealing
82 Posts
On January 14 2016 15:24 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: Yeah, that's why I'm only doing it on Dusk (backdoor natural) and Ruins of Seras (huge as shit.) You are playing against bad terrans if you can hold 3rax reaper on Dusk with reaperFE, the amount of reapers is just overwhelming. | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1387 Posts
What is the counter to this? to me it seems impossible to kill and the micro for toss , it's amazing.... canons everywhere and lets herp derp into the golden armada. | ||
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EatingBomber
1017 Posts
On January 15 2016 02:13 PinoKotsBeer wrote: Oh the joy of tvp, when its not an warprism with adepts they are turtle into mass carrier tempest mothership core. What is the counter to this? to me it seems impossible to kill and the micro for toss , it's amazing.... canons everywhere and lets herp derp into the golden armada. A replay would help a lot. Also, in TvP, you are generally the aggressor in the midgame and lategame, so constantly pressure him to prevent him from amassing his dream fleet. | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
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GreenHealing
82 Posts
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
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GreenHealing
82 Posts
On January 15 2016 03:57 Bojas wrote: "unbeatable" can we please not have such an attitude in this thread. It's extremely unconstructive. Well, im all for positivity. But i think we all need to be realistic. How do you think terran could realistically engage that? Vikings could be built for tempests, but they get shot down by blink stalkers and tempests themselves, and marines constantly need to be running away from multiple disruptor shots and storms. You could try to emp ht´s but observers make it really hard. You could try to snipe observer with vikings but its also quiet hard, and storms could also be used to spot cloacked units. Even if you emp HT´s, they just get turned into Archons so its catch22. Marines would counter tempests pretty hard but they are busy with running from disruptors. If you have alot of tanks, they are pretty easy targets for disruptors and tempests and you would only be picking them up and falling back constantly. Liberators dont work as antiair, and in siege mode they are easy targets for blink stalkers/tempests. Is it really a surprise that game released few weeks ago from beta, is not fully tweaked for balance? | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
Last time I played vs a Protoss who tried this was on Ruins, so it was quite easy to force him out of position and pick apart his 5th/6th/7th bases, while I kept trading to keep his air from becoming a critical mass. It's probably harder on other maps but still I'm not convinced it's not doable. I can't give tips for a hypothetical situation (prefer seeing a replay) but maybe a better Terran can. By the way I absolutely hate playing vs Protoss. And no the game is not tweaked for balance, has it ever been after new content got released? Idk maybe I'm just playing bad players. What's your league? Also, Pino, was the Protoss playing like Theo? | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1387 Posts
On January 15 2016 02:44 EatingBomber wrote: A replay would help a lot. Also, in TvP, you are generally the aggressor in the midgame and lategame, so constantly pressure him to prevent him from amassing his dream fleet. I will collect a few proper replays and post them. On January 15 2016 03:13 Bojas wrote: Exploit the lack of mobility, big airships are slow. But yeah definitely post the replay. I guess i have to do hellbat drops to hurt the toss. On January 15 2016 04:34 Bojas wrote: I think a regular ghost bio army can trade decently with protoss that is still busy tranisitioning into the air army. If you let the Protoss get the absolute best army they can it will surely be hard yes. Last time I played vs a Protoss who tried this was on Ruins, so it was quite easy to force him out of position and pick apart his 5th/6th/7th bases, while I kept trading to keep his air from becoming a critical mass. It's probably harder on other maps but still I'm not convinced it's not doable. I can't give tips for a hypothetical situation (prefer seeing a replay) but maybe a better Terran can. By the way I absolutely hate playing vs Protoss. And no the game is not tweaked for balance, has it ever been after new content got released? Idk maybe I'm just playing bad players. What's your league? Also, Pino, was the Protoss playing like Theo? The problem is: i play mech and most tosses i face do the turtle toss build aka Theo build. I used to be in Masters but my current league is Diamond (top 30/50 according to nios), tvp is holding me back. My winrates are TVZ: 82% , TVT 54% and TVP: just 30% Even if things are imbalanced, things will get better and the biggest point to improve on is: myself. If i see people still do mech tvp in masters and sometimes in GM than the biggest problem is my gameplay/BO etc. | ||
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