|
On January 05 2016 08:44 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2016 08:16 Gullis wrote:
What is the general approach to tvp?
What is the unit comp I should go for?
Is late game viable?
The only ways I eek out some wins is by either going full aggresive and drop everywhere or just turtle up with ghosts and liberators and wait for the map to run out of minerals and neither feels very solid :/
(diamond lvl) The general comp is marine/marauder/medivac/liberator, mines and ghosts can also be added. The general approach atm is to be defensive. The goal is to take as little damage from the Protoss as possible and then to close it out with good engagements with the help of a good liberator count. There's not quite as much opportunity for Terran in the midgame as in HotS for drop play but you can try getting it in aswell as liberator harass. Just mind adept/blink stalker/immortal compositions, they will fuck up pure bio something fierce. Early on there's still not much you can do if the Protoss doesn't mess up because of pylon overcharge. Late game TvP is the best for Terran it's ever been thanks to liberators (esp. with their range upgrade) tbh. Show nested quote +On January 05 2016 08:31 Tenks wrote:
Anyone having any luck with Raven harass in the early game TvT? I just kind of of did it on a whim (open cloak banshee, make 2 banshees then 2 ravens) and it worked out fairly well. The Terran will naturally make some turrets to deal with the banshees so once that harassment is effectively shut down with turrets + marines you just duck your Raven in and drop a turret at the back of the mineral line and duck out. Marines somewhat suck against them now that the AT has been buffed and you can get some respectable damage. I don't think there's a reason to get a second raven early on, the 200 gas is too much of an investment for what it represents. Consider that the turrets only last a few seconds so if your opponent is quick they just pull the workers away and don't attack it in the early game, the damage is negligible. 1 is fine but the second one could be upgrades (or factories if mech).
I agree the second may be overkill. What I was doing with the second is so he couldn't just ping-pong his workers quite so easily between bases. Because whichever they went to I had the ability to drop a turret. I'll play around with it a bit more.
|
On January 05 2016 09:10 Gullis wrote:
Thank you for the response!
A different thing INnoVation showcased in TvP by the way is full on marine/tank but I'm not sure how good that will turn out to be.
|
The general comp is marine/marauder/medivac/liberator, mines and ghosts can also be added. The general approach atm is to be defensive.
The general comp is more marines(a lot)/marauder(a few)/tanks/2 to 4 medivacs and liberators, it allows you to pressure the protoss 3td with the tank range (and avoid photon overcharge) and force the protoss to engage, mines are now close to be useless in tvp against standard P comp (except for harass), it's only good if P goes for a heavy archon or zealots army.
And you still need to add add ghost against archon~templar, vikings on a 2nd starport against 3+ colossus, and a lot of marauders against a heavy stalkers army.
|
Imo the new snipe is horrible for tvp. My ghosts get feedbacked and i cannot snipe templars in time. The only option is to try to kill the observer but that is very situational. Do you also have the same problem in the ghost templar interaction?
|
On January 06 2016 01:00 SpecKROELLchen wrote:
Imo the new snipe is horrible for tvp. My ghosts get feedbacked and i cannot snipe templars in time. The only option is to try to kill the observer but that is very situational. Do you also have the same problem in the ghost templar interaction?
I mainly use ghosts to emp the whole army now if there are archons on the field, templars are not so good with lotv because the goal of the Terran player is to force the P to engage into a sieged 3 bases army (tanks, liberators + bio), so you can pre-split and templars cant reach you with storm, I guess that's why most of the protoss players uses disruptors or colossus, tvp is really different from hots.
|
What is the proper response after you held off a 3 rax reaper attack in TvT?
Should you counter attack or just play normally? What surprises me in my games is that even though my opponent wasted so much gas on reapers I am not really ahead after the attack, even though I should be.
I normally open 1-1-1 into mech but if I suspect reaper cheese I go double rax factory instead.
|
On January 06 2016 03:30 MockHamill wrote:
What is the proper response after you held off a 3 rax reaper attack in TvT?
Should you counter attack or just play normally? What surprises me in my games is that even though my opponent wasted so much gas on reapers I am not really ahead after the attack, even though I should be.
I normally open 1-1-1 into mech but if I suspect reaper cheese I go double rax factory instead.
Banshee cloack. The opponent will have to waste a lot of ressource to deal with it. (be carrefull of cyclone+scan.) Then you should be ahead.
|
The standard follow-up to 3 rax reaper is 2cc because you have a lot of extra mineral, so hellion drop, banshees or liberators are good follow-up if you hold a 3rax reaper.
I always counter with a hellion drop to force the reapers back then I push with all my marines + hellions + medivac
|
What is safe tvt opener, because I always lose to either liberator at mineral line, banshee cloak, or reaper/hellion allin. Opponent can place buildings so that scans scout nothing and initial reaper scout doesnt help either and all of those require different response.
|
On January 07 2016 00:32 GreenHealing wrote:
What is safe tvt opener, because I always lose to either liberator at mineral line, banshee cloak, or reaper/hellion allin. Opponent can place buildings so that scans scout nothing and initial reaper scout doesnt help either and all of those require different response.
one quick cyclone is ideal for defense in tvt. It does fine vs banshee and is also good vs liberators if used corrrectly. additionally you can use a viking that can also be used for vision when you counter push with tankivac after defended.
|
After you get 3/3 marines and 3/0 tanks is there really a viable transition out of this composition in TvT or a "next step"? Or do you just keep making it and keep attacking with it.
|
On January 08 2016 03:18 Tenks wrote:
After you get 3/3 marines and 3/0 tanks is there really a viable transition out of this composition in TvT or a "next step"? Or do you just keep making it and keep attacking with it.
Honestly, so far in marine/tank I haven't gotten into a situation where I was thinking "Man, I should go for battlecruisers now" yet. I don't really go for transitions unless I face the rare mech player.
|
On January 08 2016 03:43 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2016 03:18 Tenks wrote:
After you get 3/3 marines and 3/0 tanks is there really a viable transition out of this composition in TvT or a "next step"? Or do you just keep making it and keep attacking with it. Honestly, so far in marine/tank I haven't gotten into a situation where I was thinking "Man, I should go for battlecruisers now" yet. I don't really go for transitions unless I face the rare mech player.
Same. I was in kind of a slug fest yesterday where we were constantly trading out marine/tank and I kept wondering if there was anything better I could build. I couldn't think of anything in the game outside of just trying to get better trades with my marine/tank. I just wasn't sure if the Terran community had an agreed upon transition. He did add in a few liberators and it could force the issue a bit with them but they didn't seem all that great in the comp.
Another thing I saw on Demu's stream is in the late game TvZ he made a bunch of Thor + Ghost and pretty much used his medivacs and marines exclusively to drop all over the map. Is that a pretty agreed upon late game composition? I struggle with Ultras.
|
On January 06 2016 03:30 MockHamill wrote:
What is the proper response after you held off a 3 rax reaper attack in TvT?
Should you counter attack or just play normally? What surprises me in my games is that even though my opponent wasted so much gas on reapers I am not really ahead after the attack, even though I should be.
I normally open 1-1-1 into mech but if I suspect reaper cheese I go double rax factory instead.
I notice this issue myself too. The problem is that 3-rax reapers leaves the opponent with an economy which is pretty much identical to yours (unless you managed to go FE without dying). He is gas limitted, so he is starting to bank minerals anyway and can expand just as fast as you can. The third CC you can take faster, and also banshees is something I have done since the opponent should be behind in tech. However he has an advantage: He is generally the one who decides when to switch tech, and for me at least it is hard to figure out if he retreated and is going to tech up, or if he just got 6 more reapers and you kinda lack defense against it.
So this way I often lose against 3 rax reapers, even though I have no issues defending the build itself (if scouted). What I do now, and which has worked at least the last 3 times I used it vs 3 rax reapers, is a reactive 3 rax reapers. I don't even really know why it works (for me). Maybe it is because my reaper micro is I think above average for my rank (meanwhile my late game micro is bad and half my opponents laugh at me for my low APM), so I simply win the reaper battle. In general while my second rax is later than his (because it is reactive), I do have the defenders advantage, and my opponents (high diamond, low masters) just like to attack into it. Kill 2-3 of his reapers, and now it snowballs into an advantage for you and you can kill him. It is not like he has the option to tech into something else before your reapers go to work in his base  .
So absolutely no guarantee this is in general a good idea, but it is something which works really well for me.
|
Why are people building cyclones vs warp prism and banshee. Is it not more useful to just build a viking instead? Plus you do not waste factory time on cyclones and can build a tank instead.
|
Against banshees either one is fine for me. But against warp prism the viking is simply too slow at killing it, and can't really do anything else in that stage of the game vs protoss, while a cyclone can afterwards help deal with adepts for example. But the big one for me is that a viking will never prevent the warp in from happening, while a cyclone can do that.
|
is it better to go for armor upgrades or attack upgrades for your liberators?
|
Against protoss I like armor, against zerg I like attack ups. Against protoss you're usually overkilling units by a lot anyway and off the top of my head I don't think it changes the number of shots it takes to kill something with its AG cannon. Against zerg you have ultras and queens. Attack upgrades will reduce the number of shots it takes to kill a queen and AA effectiveness is more important.
|
If you play mech what it the counter build to 2-base roach/ravager? I guess I can go tank/banshee of double gas but then it is harder to pressure his third if go for an expand instead.
I normally open 1-1-1 and pressure his third with marine/hellion/liberator which works excellent if he is greedy but it very weak against roach/ravager due to marines and hellions only tickling roaches.
|
There are alot of timings for the roach ravagers to arrive, so I don't think there really is one answer. For the very fast ones I hope to scout it and with bunker(s) hold it. (Just micro your SCVs so they don't take bile shots). After that since I go double starport banshees they are not really a big deal for me to hold. (Not completely true, it happens quite often they just arrive before the first banshees, and do a ton of damage, still it is quite a big investment for them, and with banshees not a single one of the units is going to make it back + they need to invest quite a bit in queens and spores, which sets them back).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
