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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
On December 31 2015 06:33 Sissors wrote: Well it is freaking annoying to have to lift your buildings to leave your base. Well I replace one of the buildings with depots shortly after I move out, this is just to avoid 1 or 2 base baneling busts. | ||
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Elentos
55561 Posts
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
On December 31 2015 22:33 Elentos wrote: It's a bit hard to say if your idea works out without knowing what units you make before the bust hits and how many banes you face. On some spawns add-on positions might be bad for it, too. I push as my first liberator is out, plus reactor marines and hellions from naked factory. The reactor is on the rax instead of the factory since the goal is to kill his third or at least kill some queens, and marines are better vs queens compared to hellions.(I later transition into mech). As for spawn position, I think you can always place the barrack so that you can build an reactor no matter the spawn position, but I guess I can be wrong. The baneling bust will hit the weakest part of the wall. A supply depot goes down from 5 banelings, a rax goes down by 12 banelings. So that 375 resources compared to 900. So even if he commits to a baneling bust his ling flood will contain less lings and his economy will be weaker. | ||
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Elentos
55561 Posts
On December 31 2015 23:06 MockHamill wrote: I push as my first liberator is out, plus reactor marines and hellions from naked factory. The reactor is on the rax instead of the factory since the goal is to kill his third or at least kill some queens, and marines are better vs queens compared to hellions.(I later transition into mech). As for spawn position, I think you can always place the barrack so that you can build an reactor no matter the spawn position, but I guess I can be wrong. The baneling bust will hit the weakest part of the wall. A supply depot goes down from 5 banelings, a rax goes down by 12 banelings. So that 375 resources compared to 900. So even if he commits to a baneling bust his ling flood will contain less lings and his economy will be weaker. If you have SCVs in position to repair the rax 12 banes aren't enough, I tested that in the unit tester on the arcade. And if he does break through the lings come into the base in a line which is perfect for hellions. The problem with the addons is that on certain spawns they fall in such a way that they'll end up as part of the wall and they're super easy to breach obviously. And I'm not sure if you can prevent them from becoming part of the wall with 3 big buildings used as wall. But if you don't have to expose the add-on to a potential bust it might be fine to wall off like that since you're trying not to die before you can pressure. | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
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Elentos
55561 Posts
On January 01 2016 00:56 Bojas wrote: Are bane busts that common anyway? I haven't seen one in ages in my own games. I haven't really seen one in a while either, but he says about 20% of his losses come from busts so apparently it's still common. Could be coincidence we don't get busted much. | ||
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EatingBomber
1017 Posts
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On January 01 2016 01:16 Elentos wrote: I haven't really seen one in a while either, but he says about 20% of his losses come from busts so apparently it's still common. Could be coincidence we don't get busted much. Different builds are common at different levels too. For instance, zergs at plat-diamond level really love flooding speedlings off hatch first gas openings but they don't do that in masters. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
Is there anyone that is successful with mech in TvT? It seems almost impossible to play since it is so very hard to defend against drops early game and almost impossible to protect both your main and your third. Even late game it seems like the whole advantage with going mech is gone, the bio player can just invest all his gas in liberators and your tanks becomes instantly useless. And you can not match their gas spending since you a) Need to invest in tanks and b) Have less bases So if anyone has a good build order and replays for mech TvT it would be greatly appreciated. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16021 Posts
On January 02 2016 05:39 MockHamill wrote: I play mech in all matchups. It works ok in TvP and TvZ but awful in TvT. Is there anyone that is successful with mech in TvT? It seems almost impossible to play since it is so very hard to defend against drops early game and almost impossible to protect both your main and your third. Even late game it seems like the whole advantage with going mech is gone, the bio player can just invest all his gas in liberators and your tanks becomes instantly useless. And you can not match their gas spending since you a) Need to invest in tanks and b) Have less bases So if anyone has a good build order and replays for mech TvT it would be greatly appreciated. very surprised to hear this, tvt is the only matchup where I play mech because it seems so bad in the other matchups and I'm having lots of success with it. vs drops you just need the usual turret ring and maybe 1-2 tanks in the main. Also having a few medivacs with hellbats is very useful. I didn't really have problems with liberators yet, you just need to make sure to scout the air switch and prepare for it. | ||
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Juice!
Belgium295 Posts
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Elentos
55561 Posts
On January 03 2016 00:33 Juice! wrote: Is the TvT 2 reaper/2hellion into cloack also a good option for TvZ? (and TvP)? In TvP because of adepts and pylon overcharge on most maps even making 1 reaper often isn't worth it. Same with hellions. And banshees also kinda struggle to get value right now because of quick robos and easy defense with PO. In TvZ you're better off going with 1 reaper into reactor and then 2 or 4 hellions. You can go for banshees with cloak fine, and it's ideal against early roach/ravager attacks but you pretty much auto-lose against nydus all-ins if you go banshees. | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
The banshee might do something because they might not be expecting it so early but do you really want to rely on that for your wins? If they do manage to be ready for both the banshee and reapers/hellions I think you're so far behind it's quite possibly gg. That being said it's probably a viable build below diamond. The build enables you to be quite safe vs Zerg cheese and some Protoss all ins too. | ||
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EatingBomber
1017 Posts
On January 03 2016 00:33 Juice! wrote: Is the TvT 2 reaper/2hellion into cloack also a good option for TvZ? (and TvP)? No. The lower amount of Hellions allows your Reapers and Hellions to be easily surrounded and killed by mass Zerglings, unless you have god-tier Reaper KD8 micro that can deter Zerglings and blow them up. Otherwise, stick to Hellions-Banshee. Reapers and Hellions are both awful against Protoss, since Photon Overcharge kills them in 2 and 3 shots respectively, while a single Adept or 2 is enough to kill 2 Readers and 2 Hellions. As a rule, early-game harassment against Protoss is quite weak, unless you know what his metagame is and can execute a Cloaked Banshee expand against his proxy Stargate, for instance | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
 Now, I'd like to ask you people for a good build that I can use in team games (so no cc first or other greedy builds) as well as work decently in 1on1. I'd like it to be very heavy on harass, kicking of early in the game, but not all-in. So far I've been doing something along the lines of - 14 depot - rax when depot done - gas at around the same time the rax starts - second gas at some point here - factory asap when rax done and 100 gas. - a marine or two. (reaper here maybe for immediate harass/scout??) - second rax, and add techlab/reactor. continue marine production and start stim - when factory done, start starport and build reactor with fact. - when starport done, move to reactor and start two medivacs. build tech lab for tanks with factory. - take the medivacs, pick up however many marines I've managed to build and start the fun! - siege up tanks at various places, trying to hold while dropping. expansions happen when I have missed enough other timing so that I start floating minerals, or my ally shouts at me that I need to expand. I generally try to keep up scv production otherwise, and add more raxes when my economy increases. I build a e-bay at some point when I remember as well, but have kept forgetting the upgrades.  So well, as you see, this is something you'd encounter in bronze I guess. I can do better with zerg, so I think I'll be able to improve quickly, I just would like a bit more solid build to train with. Just wanted to give an idea of what I want to do. Can anyone in gold or above help me out a bit here? I guess noob replays won't really help you, right? | ||
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ImmuneEH1
1 Post
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Gullis
Sweden740 Posts
What is the unit comp I should go for? Is late game viable? The only ways I eek out some wins is by either going full aggresive and drop everywhere or just turtle up with ghosts and liberators and wait for the map to run out of minerals and neither feels very solid :/ (diamond lvl) | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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Elentos
55561 Posts
On January 05 2016 08:16 Gullis wrote: What is the general approach to tvp? What is the unit comp I should go for? Is late game viable? The only ways I eek out some wins is by either going full aggresive and drop everywhere or just turtle up with ghosts and liberators and wait for the map to run out of minerals and neither feels very solid :/ (diamond lvl) The general comp is marine/marauder/medivac/liberator, mines and ghosts can also be added. The general approach atm is to be defensive. The goal is to take as little damage from the Protoss as possible and then to close it out with good engagements with the help of a good liberator count. There's not quite as much opportunity for Terran in the midgame as in HotS for drop play but you can try getting it in aswell as liberator harass. Just mind adept/blink stalker/immortal compositions, they will fuck up pure bio something fierce. Early on there's still not much you can do if the Protoss doesn't mess up because of pylon overcharge. Late game TvP is the best for Terran it's ever been thanks to liberators (esp. with their range upgrade) tbh. On January 05 2016 08:31 Tenks wrote: Anyone having any luck with Raven harass in the early game TvT? I just kind of of did it on a whim (open cloak banshee, make 2 banshees then 2 ravens) and it worked out fairly well. The Terran will naturally make some turrets to deal with the banshees so once that harassment is effectively shut down with turrets + marines you just duck your Raven in and drop a turret at the back of the mineral line and duck out. Marines somewhat suck against them now that the AT has been buffed and you can get some respectable damage. I don't think there's a reason to get a second raven early on, the 200 gas is too much of an investment for what it represents. Consider that the turrets only last a few seconds so if your opponent is quick they just pull the workers away and don't attack it in the early game, the damage is negligible. 1 is fine but the second one could be upgrades (or factories if mech). | ||
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Gullis
Sweden740 Posts
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