EPTOn some maps there isn't much surface area, so the odds of catching them are higher.
On most maps I open like Pinhead in TvT and try to get a critical mass of hellions out. Try to lose as few scvs as possible while building up your hellion count.
The LotV Terran Help Me Thread - Page 15
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
On some maps there isn't much surface area, so the odds of catching them are higher. On most maps I open like Pinhead in TvT and try to get a critical mass of hellions out. Try to lose as few scvs as possible while building up your hellion count. | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
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Senryakku
France16 Posts
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HAPPYFUNBALL
5 Posts
- How quickly should I max my army? - How many SCVs should I have at 3,5,8,10 minutes? - How early should I take my second, third, fourth? - If going MMM, how many of each unit should o try to have at 3,5,8 mins? - How many production buildings should I try to have by 3,5,8,10 mins for bio and/or mech builds? Some of these will likely have multiple answers, but upper and lower bounds would be nice to try to aim for. Right now, I feel like I do everything I can to keep my resource utilization high, but I have no idea what numbers are optimal for LOTV. *crossposted at the behest of Jer99 | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
Currently I am not starting upgrades until I have 3 bases, 6 gases and 5 factories and a starport. Then I upgrade from 3 armouries at the same time. Not sure if this is optimal or not but it seems to be me that having more units early is more important to mech then being behind on upgrades, which you typically are anyway. | ||
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Guillermoman
24 Posts
On December 28 2015 20:16 MockHamill wrote: If you play mech when do you start your upgrades and how many armouries do you use? Currently I am not starting upgrades until I have 3 bases, 6 gases and 5 factories and a starport. Then I upgrade from 3 armouries at the same time. Not sure if this is optimal or not but it seems to be me that having more units early is more important to mech then being behind on upgrades, which you typically are anyway. I think you're on the right track, at least in game theory. Having units more matters than the upgrades, and I find myself getting armories up once I have three bases too. However, I am getting armories up earlier and I only get 2. - Two armories ensures you get both weapons upgrades out. Armor is quite meaningless IMO as I don't think the armor reaches any key targets in any matchup, and even if there is you get upgrades so late you probably won't reach it anyway. - My armory timings are: - TvZ: 3 base, 6 gas, 3 factory (two tech lab, one reactor), 2 naked Starport (I open 2 port Banshee most games) - TvT: 3 base, 6 gas, 1 Reactor Starport, 2 Factory w/ Tech lab, 2 Factory in production. | ||
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[e]..
2 Posts
Btw stuck at Plat, was one game away from diamond up until x11 zerg in a row and tilted back nearly 200 points. I'm so retarded fuck. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
So if he goes in he can build Pylons. Thus he cannon rushes you without even having to build cannons and can kill you before you even get a marine out. I tried to kill of pylons with workers but he just built more pylons. So gas first = auto loss since no wall? Or am I missing something? | ||
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JWD[9]
364 Posts
On December 28 2015 05:18 HAPPYFUNBALL wrote: What are some good benchmarks for a new-ish Terran player to hit for macro play. For example: - How quickly should I max my army? - How many SCVs should I have at 3,5,8,10 minutes? - How early should I take my second, third, fourth? - If going MMM, how many of each unit should o try to have at 3,5,8 mins? - How many production buildings should I try to have by 3,5,8,10 mins for bio and/or mech builds? Some of these will likely have multiple answers, but upper and lower bounds would be nice to try to aim for. Right now, I feel like I do everything I can to keep my resource utilization high, but I have no idea what numbers are optimal for LOTV. *crossposted at the behest of Jer99 That really really really depends on some factors. If you go for an early expand, and nothing much happens in the game (not many army trades) and you play bio, then aim for 200/200 around the 10 minute mark, 150/200 around 8 minutes. 24 per base, try to produce constantly. If you plan on expanding but could not yet, don't shy away from pre-producing scvs and oversaturate your main. Answering that question is actually the way of creating a game plan. I tend to expand very late vs Protoss and get all the techstructures first, doing some cutsy stuff. Vs Zerg whenever I hit 400 minerals while producing reapers out of 3 rax. But you can do it differently, as long as you have a plan. (Marineking goes CC first into 3 rax marine without gas almost every game/Matchup) It is really awesome to have enough medivacs to pick up your whole army, so for each maraudor and 6 marines have a medivac. But you will produce Marines and Maraudors earlier since starport comes later, so don't worry too much about the perfectly balanced composition. That is the wrong question, since time is not the important factor, income is. So per saturated base, you want bases*4 - 1. So on one base you want 3 structures (enough to get minerals for an expand) on two you want 7 on three you want 11. If you early expanded add 3 sturctures, when you natural is half way saturated go up to five, once you have both saturated go up to 7. | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
As for HAPPYFUNBALL's first question: look at how pro Koreans play and take benchmarks from their replays, whenever they play a build that is similar to your build. Because builds and the level of greed matters a lot and you need to account for lost mining time from lost workers, you can't just take a random replay if you want precise benchmarks. 24 per base, try to produce constantly. If you plan on expanding but could not yet, don't shy away from pre-producing scvs and oversaturate your main. You'd want 6 on gas and 16 on minerals, for 22 total. Your third base needs 16 workers on minerals and, depending on your playstyle, 1 or 2 gasses. Your main base will lose a few nodes, so you'd want your 4th base done by the time 16 workers means oversaturation in your main, but this is high level stuff. That is the wrong question, since time is not the important factor, income is. So per saturated base, you want bases*4 - 1. So on one base you want 3 structures (enough to get minerals for an expand) on two you want 7 on three you want 11. If you early expanded add 3 sturctures, when you natural is half way saturated go up to five, once you have both saturated go up to 7. I'm not sure what this is about, but a rough goal to aim for per matchup: TvT 2 base: 5 barracks 1 factory 1 starport TvT 3 base: 8 barracks 2 factories 1 starport TvT 4 base: 8 barracks 3 factories 1 starport (assuming standard marine tank composition) TvZ 2 base: 5 barracks 1 factory 1 starport TvZ 3 base: 8 barracks 2 factories 1 starport TvZ 4 base: 11 barracks (not because it's efficient but because you need more tech labs for ghosts so you can make enough ghosts on time) 2 factories 1-2 starports depending on how many liberators you want/need, basically efficiency isn't what matters, it's being able to produce enough on time. TvP is similar to the rest, just only 1 factory all game and 2-3 starports on 3-4 bases so you can pump liberators. | ||
Poopi
France12861 Posts
Like with the tankivacs, are the cheap semi doom drops in the main the best / fastest way to win? | ||
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HAPPYFUNBALL
5 Posts
On December 29 2015 02:13 Poopi wrote: What is the optimal (or a good) gameplan in TvT? Like with the tankivacs, are the cheap semi doom drops in the main the best / fastest way to win? I usually go MMM + Mines with plenty of harassment. Leave mines all over the place and your opponent will wast tons of $$ on detection (Ravens, extra orbitals), play extremely cautiously (and get contained), or they'll all-in and get torn to pieces by all the mines you've laid outside your base. Widow mines are scary af to most people; use this to your advantage and keep your opponent contained. Edit: Another benefit to using MMM+M is that you know when he moves out and is vulnerable to in-base drops. | ||
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Toudeleski
United States66 Posts
A few mines around the map is fine, but you'll probably have spotter marines around the most common/direct path to your base(s) and along the sides where you might be able to spot drops. | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On December 29 2015 02:13 Poopi wrote: What is the optimal (or a good) gameplan in TvT? Like with the tankivacs, are the cheap semi doom drops in the main the best / fastest way to win? I think one of the best ways to play TvT currently is heavy marine heavy upgrade style. Think Bomber's TvT. I open with reaper expand into 1-1-1 on maps that aren't good for reapers, and 2 rax reaper into 3 rax stim on maps that are, and then get quick double upgrades for marines and rush up to 3 bases 8 barracks as quickly as possible. I play the midgame really aggressively, trying to trade constantly, keeping their tank count as low as possible, and then massing up for a large push when upgrades finish. Reasoning: -With tankivacs, it's a lot easier to get a lot of utility out of only a few tanks; even with only 1 factory production, with good micro, you can keep a reasonable number (4-5) around; enough so that you can take most fights. -Tankivacs also allow you to re-position your tanks in a way that is immediately adventageous for you. E.g. when you are sieging a position you can drop two tanks within the range of a single exposed tank, and then move your exposed tanks when they are outnumbered. Thus tank count matters less, as do tank upgrades. -Since you don't need to spend as much on factories and tanks, those extra scvs mining minerals (no gases on the third!) can fuel a higher barracks count earlier. Since you don't need to scan as much (due to fewer tank standoffs) those mules can also help build your barracks count. -In the hectic world of LotV, where TvT is full of constant trading and a lot of chaotic fighting, a heavily upgraded force of marines can do a lot better than a group of tanks that require much more precise positioning. -Marines are much less susceptible to positioning errors than tanks. If most of your army's firepower is in a group of 12 tanks, you can easily lose fights because a few tanks were too far to the front or something. A mass of marines is much harder to mess up with and can more easily punish your opponent's errors. Again, think Bomber style. Early game is quite passive, with an early third and early double upgrades. Midgame is constant trading, keeping opponent's tank count low, until you have an upgrade advantage where you can try to hit a 2/2 timing. This should either win you the game or put you far enough ahead that you can expand more and win at or before your 3/3 timing. | ||
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CharAznable2
26 Posts
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deth
Australia1757 Posts
On December 29 2015 01:38 Bojas wrote: I'm not sure what this is about, but a rough goal to aim for per matchup: TvT 2 base: 5 barracks 1 factory 1 starport TvT 3 base: 8 barracks 2 factories 1 starport TvT 4 base: 8 barracks 3 factories 1 starport (assuming standard marine tank composition) TvZ 2 base: 5 barracks 1 factory 1 starport TvZ 3 base: 8 barracks 2 factories 1 starport TvZ 4 base: 11 barracks (not because it's efficient but because you need more tech labs for ghosts so you can make enough ghosts on time) 2 factories 1-2 starports depending on how many liberators you want/need, basically efficiency isn't what matters, it's being able to produce enough on time. TvP is similar to the rest, just only 1 factory all game and 2-3 starports on 3-4 bases so you can pump liberators. This isn't hots anymore, you can't afford 8 rax 2 fac 1 starport and still produce expansions as needed. You mine out so fast you should go for 7 rax 2 fac or 8 rax 1 fac on 3 base so you can always be making an expansion as your bases mine out. You need a 4th as you mine out the main, a 5th as the nat mines out etc etc, so its very very rare you'll ever be on more than 3 base saturation unless you're stupidly far ahead or are split-map ruins of seras. | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
On December 30 2015 03:57 CharAznable2 wrote: Is there a way to cheese protoss? All in against them? Because I think toss has way too many openers, builds, all ins, and we are stuck If just a go macro build or go heavy mine against them. I have a very good winrate with a 1 base marine-tank-liberator push ala old WoL 1-1-1 style. (I build 2 rax though). I don't think it should work really but at diamond or lower its the best I have come up with. If anyone has a better answer I too would love to hear it. | ||
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HAPPYFUNBALL
5 Posts
Perhaps it makes more sense to vary up the build a little bit? I actually had more success when using a MMM+Mines build. Bear in mind that this is relatively low level play too. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
I was thinking using the rax, factory and starport as the initial wall before moving out and pressure the Zerg while floating out the CC to my natural. I think about 20% of my losses to Zerg are due to baneling busts so this should make me almost immune. Is there any downside to walling off like this? | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
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