(replay here https://sc2replaystats.com/replay/10473423 ) Hey guys, thanks for your help so far. Today I have a question about TvT, in particular, how do I scout and defend aggression while preparing for a timing push.
My tvt build is a 2 base mech timing push from innovation, spawning tool link here https://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/91081/ vod here 2nd game against Maru in the IEM Season XIII - Katowice: American Server Qualifier The spawning tool is probably enough to get the idea, so no need to worry about vod unless you just want to watch the game. The goal is to hit with a lot of tank viking supported by two ravens at a little before 8 minutes.
In the game I just played, (again replay here here https://sc2replaystats.com/replay/10473423 ) the terran I was against was going for heavy one base aggression. I didn't know thats what he was up to and was surprised and damaged by several early drops and attacks and then killed by his main timing push which hit at 8 minutes.
My main question is what should I be doing to see this coming and what should I be doing to know he is one base? I scouted with reaper and saw early 2 gas and a quick factory, so I figured he was probably rushing for cloaked banshees or something techy like that and didn't worry much since the build gets a raven and a cyclone pretty fast.
After the initial reaper scout, how should I be getting information? I make another 2 reapers and also 2 hellions, but I usually keep them at home to repel incoming opponent reapers hellions and other forms of aggression. Do I need to send these guys across the map to get intel? But if I do, then what do I defend with?
I think I could have held the drop a lot better, and rewatching the replay I see a ton of micro mistakes on my part. Biggest thing is probably that the cyclone should have been waiting behind the mineral line instead of between mineral line and the front. After that, I had a lot of misclicks in targeting and should have set scvs to repair faster.
Post the first attack, I was way behind and was also very mentally frazzled which messed up my macro and interfered with keeping the build smooth and crisp. By the time the main attack hit me I was too far behind, so it was a forgone conclusion I think.
The key question is, how should I balance scouting and defending early on prior to my timing? Thanks!
Can anyone explain to me the two proxy reaper barracks in TvT? I am new to the game and I cannot understand how the defender is supposed to defend outside of having superior micro and/or going for 2 barracks himself. The reaper is the strongest unit that comes from the barrack at this moment of the game, so you cannot counter it with a stronger unit who may overcome the number advantage of the reapers, you cannot reliably build a bunker, since, the reapers can get into your base more or less from everywhere and attack any part of it, multiple bunkers are out of question coz the reapers will tear the ones in progress apart. So the only thing you are left with is to micro with scvs + inferior number of reapers and/or marines and maybe you can squeeze a hellion if your building order was tight against units who are designed to kill scvs. And finally the two proxy barracks actually scale pretty all right later in the game for TvT. So what am I missing, help :-)
On May 03 2019 19:23 M2 wrote: Can anyone explain to me the two proxy reaper barracks in TvT? I am new to the game and I cannot understand how the defender is supposed to defend outside of having superior micro and/or going for 2 barracks himself. The reaper is the strongest unit that comes from the barrack at this moment of the game, so you cannot counter it with a stronger unit who may overcome the number advantage of the reapers, you cannot reliably build a bunker, since, the reapers can get into your base more or less from everywhere and attack any part of it, multiple bunkers are out of question coz the reapers will tear the ones in progress apart. So the only thing you are left with is to micro with scvs + inferior number of reapers and/or marines and maybe you can squeeze a hellion if your building order was tight against units who are designed to kill scvs. And finally the two proxy barracks actually scale pretty all right later in the game for TvT. So what am I missing, help :-)
15 Gas 16 Rax 17 Gas, reaper+factory when rax completes is the standard opener for a reason. It itself can go into macro no problem while getting up the production necessary to hold that build. (Hellions + Reapers or marines). It's very important that you don't lose your first reaper or the rush can easily snowball out of control. You will need to use a few SCVs to tank for your first reaper, and its okay if you lose a few workers because the 2rax player takes an economic hit to do the build in the first place. Keep pumping units out of your factory and rax (no addons) until they stop producing reapers.
Since losing your first reaper for free will likely result in an autoloss, knowing that 2rax is coming is important so you can position the reaper safely. An SCV scout will tell you all you need to know (often sent after you start the second refinery). It's not a bad idea to first rally it to a probable proxy location (Ex: 3rd on Kings Cove) before sending it to their main.
On May 03 2019 19:23 M2 wrote: Can anyone explain to me the two proxy reaper barracks in TvT? I am new to the game and I cannot understand how the defender is supposed to defend outside of having superior micro and/or going for 2 barracks himself. The reaper is the strongest unit that comes from the barrack at this moment of the game, so you cannot counter it with a stronger unit who may overcome the number advantage of the reapers, you cannot reliably build a bunker, since, the reapers can get into your base more or less from everywhere and attack any part of it, multiple bunkers are out of question coz the reapers will tear the ones in progress apart. So the only thing you are left with is to micro with scvs + inferior number of reapers and/or marines and maybe you can squeeze a hellion if your building order was tight against units who are designed to kill scvs. And finally the two proxy barracks actually scale pretty all right later in the game for TvT. So what am I missing, help :-)
15 Gas 16 Rax 17 Gas, reaper+factory when rax completes is the standard opener for a reason. It itself can go into macro no problem while getting up the production necessary to hold that build. (Hellions + Reapers or marines). It's very important that you don't lose your first reaper or the rush can easily snowball out of control. You will need to use a few SCVs to tank for your first reaper, and its okay if you lose a few workers because the 2rax player takes an economic hit to do the build in the first place. Keep pumping units out of your factory and rax (no addons) until they stop producing reapers.
Since losing your first reaper for free will likely result in an autoloss, knowing that 2rax is coming is important so you can position the reaper safely. An SCV scout will tell you all you need to know (often sent after you start the second refinery). It's not a bad idea to first rally it to a probable proxy location (Ex: 3rd on Kings Cove) before sending it to their main.
Hey, thanks, will remember the BO, but on what number scv is recommended to scout?
Can anyone help me? I'm looking for replays of a quick stim, combat shield, +1 attack timing off two bases. It doesn't have to be pro or GM, just something well executed that I can try and copy. This is mostly for TvP, although I might use it in other matchups too.
At the moment I'm doing what I can but I'm kinda making it up so it isn't optimized and I'm finding myself running out of minerals for supply depots and spending a long time supply blocked.
It feels like it should be possible to get it working but I've just come back to the game after years so I might be wrong. Thanks
On April 01 2019 13:57 speakerbox wrote: I usually do a 2 base bio hit every match up, im a terran player. Can someone direct me to an actual build order that is similar to what I play currently? Its the style of play ive been most effective with.
Guys, I'm master 2 terran and I would like to reach GM, but I don't have enough information about how to do that. Can you please suggest some reading material, some technics and tips to help me improve?
Where can I learn about vigent build orders and the exact objectives on each of them? How do I know exactly when and how to attack? I play this game a lot for years, still wasn't able to reach that. Can you help me please?
I don't wanna quit scraft before that, I don't want to fail.
Hey guys, recently switched to Terran and I'm currently in Dia3 and I've been having some problems getting to lategame army compositions, I seem to get stuck (as in "forget" to go to later tech) on an mmm +ghosts comp and eventually get overrun. What is a good time to start teching towards later tech such as Battlecruisers?
Also is there any other way to deal with storm than EMP's? It feels like even if you get good EMP's off protoss can still just spam storms and it just feels like there's so little I can do about it.
On May 13 2019 16:26 Damien wrote: Guys, I'm master 2 terran and I would like to reach GM, but I don't have enough information about how to do that. Can you please suggest some reading material, some technics and tips to help me improve?
Where can I learn about vigent build orders and the exact objectives on each of them? How do I know exactly when and how to attack? I play this game a lot for years, still wasn't able to reach that. Can you help me please?
I don't wanna quit scraft before that, I don't want to fail.
It’s hard to find those kind of resources in one place
I don’t aim as high but I found watching streams and VoDs, slowed down if necessary and making notes on things like responses to scouting, build optimisations, how players hotkey things or even use their mice etc. IEM Katowice and WESG released replay packs and I’d highly recommend finding them, I am not at my computer at present or I’d link them here.
I imagine a big part of making the jump from Masters to Grandmasters is not just executing builds well but really understanding them and why they’re employed, how they intersect with an opponent’s etc.
If you don’t already I’ve heard it said that working on your offraces really helps in understanding where Z and P are strong and weak and how timings work against them.
On May 13 2019 17:27 yxme wrote: Hey guys, recently switched to Terran and I'm currently in Dia3 and I've been having some problems getting to lategame army compositions, I seem to get stuck (as in "forget" to go to later tech) on an mmm +ghosts comp and eventually get overrun. What is a good time to start teching towards later tech such as Battlecruisers?
Also is there any other way to deal with storm than EMP's? It feels like even if you get good EMP's off protoss can still just spam storms and it just feels like there's so little I can do about it.
Thanks in advance.
If they skip colossi you can get a ghost academy once your 3rd is saturated. Teching to BC can start happening on 4 saturated bases if you have a good defense setup. I personally prefer liberators with range.
It only takes 2 EMPs to guarantee removing all energy on the HTs you hit, and in Dia3 they will almost always be clumped. But do not waste EMPs on anything else before you're sure they have no energy left for storms. The difficulty at your level is to do it when caught off guard, so know your opponent's location before engaging (send scouting marines / scans), it will make the task much simpler.
What happens if you dont follow any build and just focus on macroing, going full mutltask beast, attacking from all sides and micro as good as you can and just reacting on what opponent builds? I know technically you wont be playing most efficiently, but is it decent way to practice and improve? I just find doing same thing over and over again boring and unfun.. but i still want to improve, right now im master2 terran. Im also practicing somewhat with zerg now (diamond2~) and noticed multitasking improvement on my terran play from it.
On May 14 2019 20:19 skdsk wrote: What happens if you dont follow any build and just focus on macroing, going full mutltask beast, attacking from all sides and micro as good as you can and just reacting on what opponent builds? I know technically you wont be playing most efficiently, but is it decent way to practice and improve? I just find doing same thing over and over again boring and unfun.. but i still want to improve, right now im master2 terran. Im also practicing somewhat with zerg now (diamond2~) and noticed multitasking improvement on my terran play from it.
You'll be weak to all ins and early timing attacks because they are designed specifically to take advantage of inefficient builds...
On May 14 2019 20:19 skdsk wrote: What happens if you dont follow any build and just focus on macroing, going full mutltask beast, attacking from all sides and micro as good as you can and just reacting on what opponent builds? I know technically you wont be playing most efficiently, but is it decent way to practice and improve? I just find doing same thing over and over again boring and unfun.. but i still want to improve, right now im master2 terran. Im also practicing somewhat with zerg now (diamond2~) and noticed multitasking improvement on my terran play from it.
You'll be weak to all ins and early timing attacks because they are designed specifically to take advantage of inefficient builds...
On May 14 2019 20:19 skdsk wrote: What happens if you dont follow any build and just focus on macroing, going full mutltask beast, attacking from all sides and micro as good as you can and just reacting on what opponent builds? I know technically you wont be playing most efficiently, but is it decent way to practice and improve? I just find doing same thing over and over again boring and unfun.. but i still want to improve, right now im master2 terran. Im also practicing somewhat with zerg now (diamond2~) and noticed multitasking improvement on my terran play from it.
You'll be weak to all ins and early timing attacks because they are designed specifically to take advantage of inefficient builds...
yes, but thats not the point im asking.
Efficient builds would still lose to allins if not tweaked anyway.
I think it's possible to improve by simply macroing / reacting just as it's possible to improve while following a build precisely.
I would advise to do both though, minus the whole attacking from all sides which is completely dependent on what you and your opponent are doing. A build provides a solid base for you to learn macro. It will improve your mechanics because keeping up with the build forces you to macro in a well thought-out manner already proven by pros. It's better to learn how to adjust a build in reaction to what you see than simply react to everything with a slowed down economy / production due to poor build optimization.
Macroing reactively works in masters, sure, but without a proper build you will always start the game at a disadvantage once you reach a certain peak, a peak that can differ from one player to another ofc.
If if it's unfun to play the same build over and over, learn a new one, then slowly add more and more builds to your repertoire. But don't add them too fast or you'll do a lot of them poorly instead of a few properly.
On May 14 2019 20:19 skdsk wrote: What happens if you dont follow any build and just focus on macroing, going full mutltask beast, attacking from all sides and micro as good as you can and just reacting on what opponent builds? I know technically you wont be playing most efficiently, but is it decent way to practice and improve? I just find doing same thing over and over again boring and unfun.. but i still want to improve, right now im master2 terran. Im also practicing somewhat with zerg now (diamond2~) and noticed multitasking improvement on my terran play from it.
You'll be weak to all ins and early timing attacks because they are designed specifically to take advantage of inefficient builds...
yes, but thats not the point im asking.
If I were you I’d follow a build schematic tightly and then try to play really reactively from whatever point you’re getting bored
So get everything up and running, but maybe instead of not doing that 2-2 timing attack or whatever it is you’re doing, start freestyling it from there.
I felt when I played regularly that this both helped me improve as a player, but also kept it fresh as I had to think more about my game instead of just executing a build and a timing attack.
So perhaps instead of hitting a huge timing, start your 3-3, start multipronged aggression all over the place, and play for a longer game where you take more bases or have to transition to other lategame tech.
You’ll die a lot but it’ll be fun and a learning experience. You’ll get better at keeping up your macro and multitasking behind aggression, and you’ll get more of a feel of what you can and can’t do at certain phases of the game.
On May 14 2019 20:19 skdsk wrote: What happens if you dont follow any build and just focus on macroing, going full mutltask beast, attacking from all sides and micro as good as you can and just reacting on what opponent builds? I know technically you wont be playing most efficiently, but is it decent way to practice and improve? I just find doing same thing over and over again boring and unfun.. but i still want to improve, right now im master2 terran. Im also practicing somewhat with zerg now (diamond2~) and noticed multitasking improvement on my terran play from it.
You'll be weak to all ins and early timing attacks because they are designed specifically to take advantage of inefficient builds...
yes, but thats not the point im asking.
If I were you I’d follow a build schematic tightly and then try to play really reactively from whatever point you’re getting bored
So get everything up and running, but maybe instead of not doing that 2-2 timing attack or whatever it is you’re doing, start freestyling it from there.
I felt when I played regularly that this both helped me improve as a player, but also kept it fresh as I had to think more about my game instead of just executing a build and a timing attack.
So perhaps instead of hitting a huge timing, start your 3-3, start multipronged aggression all over the place, and play for a longer game where you take more bases or have to transition to other lategame tech.
You’ll die a lot but it’ll be fun and a learning experience. You’ll get better at keeping up your macro and multitasking behind aggression, and you’ll get more of a feel of what you can and can’t do at certain phases of the game.
EPT
