EPTEach viking is exactly the income rate of 1 gas geyser
[G] How to mech in TvP: A youtube series! - Page 12
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
Each viking is exactly the income rate of 1 gas geyser | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
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AleXusher
280 Posts
pls watch those replays: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6183135 Here i lose vs blink, ok why i lost is clear, but what i am asking myself is, HOW do i have crips timings? As you can see i have NO money for Fax, OC etc! I still need to know, when to skip what exactly in order to perform your Build as perfect as possible, only thing i can imagine, which hurts was no cancel on the ebay, but still that was way later, then the natural finishing! http://ggtracker.com/matches/6183136 Here i lose vs Tempest, yay, as he didnt show up with oracle, so i had NO clue what to expect... How do i scout that? Defense was way to late. The problem i see here is, if there is no blink attack until 7:30 it is most likely NOT Blink stalker, esp when his 2nd base is so late BUT, i can't blindly go for double Starport because it could be also Immortal bust, any ideas? | ||
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
On September 17 2015 17:15 AleXusher wrote: Heyjo, still got problems, pls watch those replays: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6183135 Here i lose vs blink, ok why i lost is clear, but what i am asking myself is, HOW do i have crips timings? As you can see i have NO money for Fax, OC etc! I still need to know, when to skip what exactly in order to perform your Build as perfect as possible, only thing i can imagine, which hurts was no cancel on the ebay, but still that was way later, then the natural finishing! Watching replay now, First thing i'd do is stagger your ebay back towards his mineral line. It can avoid probe scouts, and it's a longer distance for him to travel to deal with it, plus when you draw units over there to kill it, you can run an scv past while they try to kill it to see what they're up to. Finishing the ebay was the right call, because it's almost impossible to see the difference between twilight and stargate when the 2nd pylon is missing. You can still hold a 1 base blink even with the investment in turrets because we use gas intensive tanks to defend. Your gas is 10 seconds late and that slows you down as well. So your Factory is 10 seconds late. 2nd Factory is 25 seconds late as well. Something else to consider is your production building placements as well. Generally the further back in between your main and nat you can go the better, because it forces him to commit further into your base, which is alot more risky with oracle openings. It's not as important on Coda, but on echo it might just be the difference between saving your scv's building your production or not AND it gives you some breathing room if he blinks in, so he's not immediately on your production. At 6 minutes, we still havn't seen an oracle, use a mule instead of a scan (because we know he hasn't expanded) and start a 2nd bunker in your main. it's time to suspect either blink or DT. While we have a way to deal with oracles AND DT's we're vulnerable to blink. at 6 minutes when your factory completes we KNOW that he doesn't have a stargate, because we would have already seen an oracle by now, that means you should skip the widow mines, and get your techlab IMMEDIATELY, because blink attacks are VERY hard to deal with. The timing you pulled SCV's was fantastic though, and the extra bunkers as well where really well done, it's just that at that point you where already so far behind with your tanks that you where always going to have a bad time ;( 1 last thing i'd tweak is the bunker at your natural. Rather have it in the middle of the ramp, have it orientated closer to your main ramp. While this allows for units to get a better run by, you can still run your scv's and be fine, while trapping any units that ran by. But the most important thing this does is this, if you put your seige tank on the edge of the cliff near your main base, with that bunker a little closer to your ramp you could cover both bunkers in your main AND nat with 1 siege tank. It may not sound like much, but it can make a big difference! also i cant believe that one base blink lasted until 17minutes! Dirty bloody protoss! you did well to last as long as you did though. On September 17 2015 17:15 AleXusher wrote: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6183136 Here i lose vs Tempest, yay, as he didnt show up with oracle, so i had NO clue what to expect... How do i scout that? Defense was way to late. The problem i see here is, if there is no blink attack until 7:30 it is most likely NOT Blink stalker, esp when his 2nd base is so late BUT, i can't blindly go for double Starport because it could be also Immortal bust, any ideas? One thing i noticed in both games if your getting the turrets a little bit late as well, there is the potential if he hits his timings right, that he could kill the SCV's building it and cause some serious headaches. Again in this game both your factory's are slightly delayed, Cut SCV's if you have to. at 6 minutes you where SOOOOO unlucky with the probes killing your SCV, i believe you could have just seen the fleet beacon and countered him, but such is life ;( Also why no orbital at your natural? Your bunker in the main to deflect a blink all in was very late as well. it needed to be done like 40 seconds earlier because if he did a blink build off one base, it'd hit alot faster then that. This is where the mule minerals are really coming back to bite you. This map i'd keep the tank on the high ground as well to defend your opening. If they blink passed your bunker they would still need to get high ground vision OR run up the ramp to see it to shoot it, this buys valuble time and can make your tank 3 times as effective. The same effect applies if they blink into the main because they'll have to walk passed that bunker to get to your tank as well. Final thing to note before we get to the stargate stuff is this, dont take your 3rd and 4th gas until you have your 3rd CC being made. It will slow down your build too much otherwise. OK so at 8:50 you see the tempest for the first time, Your scv reaction is good, however i'd make the starports behind your main mineral line. I think the biggest thing thats hurt you is losing that bunker at the front. Everything is pinned on holding that, so pull more SCV's and build more bunkers behind. You could have got your vikings up 10 seconds faster too, but thats incredibly hard to do under that much pressure. Besides that It's hard to say what else could have been done better. The hardest thing here is the protoss played REALLY suboptimally which gave you the wrong reads. To get a stargate and go into tempest WITHOUT an oracle is just bad because it's a 1 base all in where you have idle production. Also to pool 3 tempests before attacking is bad, because the build rely's on the massive amount of pressure they create to start a snowball effect that leads to a victory for protoss. These 2 things kinda fucked you, and it's because he played like shit. :/ A widow mine drop or a 3 rax opening just straight up win you this game instantly. So i wouldn't take too much stock in this loss because he'll get rekt by bio terrans and learn the build properly so you can read him, or just not do it at all. Dirty protoss cant even play the game properly ;( | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
Also why no orbital at your natural? That is the point, what do i skip in order to get what building at what time? If i finish the ebay, all your sweet timings doesn't fit any more, so on what do i focus? Do i skip Marines in order to get SCVs and Orbital working? Or do i delay the factories for the economy? If i finish the ebay and get the turrets, i dont have enough minerals to do everything at the normal timing. So that was the main question, when do i skip what in order to finish which task first?^^ So far thx for you help, i am still pwning Toss with the Hellbat Attack if i see late Robo, so THAT build is super awesome^^ 1 last thing i'd tweak is the bunker at your natural. Rather have it in the middle of the ramp, have it orientated closer to your main ramp. While this allows for units to get a better run by, you can still run your scv's and be fine, while trapping any units that ran by. But the most important thing this does is this, if you put your seige tank on the edge of the cliff near your main base, with that bunker a little closer to your ramp you could cover both bunkers in your main AND nat with 1 siege tank. It may not sound like much, but it can make a big difference! So that tip is really helpful, although most people would say, get the highground vision advantage, but yeah he got MSC overall so i think that is rly a smart way to improve my defense vs Blink. | ||
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
Work to your strengths and you'll be fine. | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6184066 | ||
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
If you attack into him It is possible for protoss to hold the push, however if you can snipe 2 or more collossi you bring yourself back into the game. Or just start doom dropping his main and just running whenever he comes to defend. Use that map control to safely take your third. Also your 3rd 4th and 5th Fac where a little late which really helped him with the counter attack, also after a max of 6 medivacs start transitioning to vikings. The medivacs wont scale late game very well, especially when templer come onto the field, but you can use them for a very scary timing in the midgame. | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6189242 | ||
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
Everything else was just positional mistakes like tanks too far forward and i think you just got flustered and fell apart. If you check out that replay you'll see your in a REALLY good position but you just drop the ball positionaly and he punish's you for it. With the position you where in, theres no way you should have lost that game. You just need to practice a bit more mate | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
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Barracuda8
Bosnia-Herzegovina27 Posts
I've been reading this thread and I am considering to play mech. I have a couple of questions: How do you transition after the hellbat timing?, I mean, when do you start tank production? When do you make that tank push?. Are you making new vids or are you gonna move to LotV? Thanks and cheers. Your vids are awesome. | ||
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
It'll be stargate openings, pheonix collossi and a few other mini things thrown in to wrap everything up. With the hellbat timing as soon as you can afford it with gas you get another 3 fac's all with techlabs and go into tanks and vikings. Keep some of your medivacs alive and you'll be able to contest the protoss army on the ground. Push when you think you have an advantage, so like around 14 minutes with the mine drop opening and around 15-16 with the hellbat opening | ||
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
Here's a good one, where the entire early game goes against me on moonlight and i adapt and use what i have to start moving forward through the game. http://ggtracker.com/matches/6190347 1. I cant ebay block, because he has 2 options for a natural expansion on moonlight madness. 2. His 2nd pylon is proxied and he has 2 gas with 2 probes in each geyser. Most of the time this means Oracle or blink so i prepare for both, delaying my Nat and turtling in my base. And when no attack comes i prepare for blink. 3. He cancels any early aggression he had planned and goes robo with upgrades while i have tanks with a late nat and a later 3rd. This is the worst possible place for me in compositions vs compositions. 4. Moonlights incredibly hard to defend both your nat and 3rd safely, so i grab my 3rd and 4th gas before i get my 3rd CC, to get sensor towers for both areas. 5. When i'm pressuring with my hellions i see he has mass immortal chargelot, so i create chokes with depot's to funnel his zealots in front of my hellions and tanks, severely crippling any chance he has of attacking into me. 6. Knowing how far behind i am in my normal pace of the game, i know i cant get to BC's without dieing, so i use banshee's as a transition point. 7. i slowly take my 4th before taking the first major engagement in the game. I trade fairly well, and use the time to remax to get extra BC's. 8. Knowing i am very far behind in economy, i do some hellion runby's to scout what he's transitioning to. I manage to get some probe damage and scout he's transitioned to mass tempests. I tech back into vikings and ravens and sack some SCV's for thors. 9. Knowing i have the perfect composition to fight him, i move out on the map and kill his 5th base and take an engagement vs mass tempest carrier, yamotoing as many units as i can until i demolish his army and take the game. I thought you guys would like to see my thoughts and process's on what happens when everything goes wrong initially, and how you can adapt in bad situations to make the most of it and comeback for a win. ZizLah~ | ||
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Aulisemia
United States123 Posts
What general compositions do you suggest I aim for in the mid-late game? The question is purposefully vague because I feel like have other things to work on before I nail down timings and transitions. I am looking to develop a framework to build upon less the exact specifics. | ||
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
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AleXusher
280 Posts
I got one move i would like to share. Do you think, something like that might work vs a Archon, Chargelot, HT, Immo composition? I am speaking of Drillingclaw WM drop on top of the army. http://ggtracker.com/matches/6191467 | ||
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Aulisemia
United States123 Posts
On September 24 2015 13:05 Bodzilla wrote: What matchup are you referring to? Primarily TvP and TvZ. I have not kept up with HotS or Legacy to this point but TvT compositions seem fairly intuitive since it's a mirror matchup. | ||
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
http://spawningtool.com/31222/ | ||
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
On September 25 2015 23:33 EJK wrote: ahem. so I have been a bit inactive with this thread as of late, because I had been trying to get good replays to show you guys, FINALLY i have a very good macro game tvp that i can be proud to share :D http://spawningtool.com/31222/ also first person view :D | ||
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