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On September 09 2015 03:49 always_winter wrote:
Solid OP, cool that you're trying unconventional builds and going against the grain in TvP, but realistically it's a scouting thing whereby you're operating under the assumption the build goes unscouted and you hit timings before the Protoss has the right pieces in place. In that respect it's a decent ladder build for variety, but doesn't seem consistent at the higher levels where the proper reactions are more inevitable and scouting is more frequent.
I think you can take advantage of those timings in every game, similar to how a terran takes advantage of medivacs.
I dunno if you've watched every vid yet, but they're all taylor made vs practice partners that i grinded out many practice games with. The abuse of scouting i use is part of the inherent design of the game, where protoss dictates the opening and it's up to terran to react and respond.
The only way i can think of a protoss getting the leg up in an opening, is to either somehow deny the scouting scv, get a pylon on the map to hide their tech, as well as me gaining no information or tells from the scan AND i guess which response wrong. It's alot to ask in that situation.
Besides building sentry's (which they'll never do at that stage of the game because their tech will be slowed to a crawl) and getting a hallucination scout, or some random comedy of errors to let a unit runby or probe runby into my base, i dont see a way for them to know what i'm doing, before i know what they're doing.
The beauty of the 1rax expand, and the reason i do it is that it can be anything. You can go either bio or mech from it and they'll just have to guess which one it was.
On September 09 2015 05:07 EJK wrote:
i will proove you wrong
Thanks buddy, means alot that your trying this stuff out. I spent years talking to brickwalls who never even tried it before saying it was impossible. Means alot to me. <3
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On September 08 2015 20:38 EJK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2015 20:06 Bodzilla wrote:
But it's hard to tell if you where forced into that many ravens, or if you going for some money seeker missles.
Quick question, you know PDD doesn't stop interceptors right? yes i know pdd doesn't stop interceptors. and against like 20 ravens your telling me i only need 4 ravens...?
If they keep building tempests, keep building ravens, but you should be able to get away with only about 1 raven per 4 tempests. You'll absorb 20 shots with a single PDD, which will be 5 rounds of attacks from them, before you throw down 1 more PDD.
Tempests can be hard to catch and kill, but they cant hold positions. They just dont have any space control once you have PDD. They'll have to fire and retreat to keep them alive from your army. This means you can just kill what ever expansion your pushing into and then pull back.
So yeah, if they're just trying to mass tempests, you can just kill their expansions, virtually for free over and over again.
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Ok so i am tempted to try out the build in the video now, as it seems to provide me a more stable transition into the mid game. BUT, how do i deal with oracle on a 4 player map? In the video it says i get the SCV Scout at... 13? and get an ebay block, if i scout 1 pylon missing, lots of chrono safed up and 2 gas, i finish the ebay and get a turret, ez pz. but on a 4 player map the SCV might enter the main base of the P to late to do that, so just go ebay at home? Will i still be able to hold oracle? I still would love some replay packs with play vs Blink, vs Robo, vs Stargate, and ofc late late game. If anyone has such replays and would share them, that would be awesome.
I rewatched your "How to deal with Robo" Video
it explains a lot very good, but one thing i am still missing. After i got the BO from your first video done, and scan the main, i see what he does: Robo, Twilight or Stargate. What i am missing is the followup behind that. I know what i need to do vs Robo for instance. 9:00 min double Mine Drop and 10:00 min double Mine Drop but what is with my base? Do i get TL or Reactor first on the first fax? do i build Reactor on Starport? When do i get the Armory and when the 3rd CC?
Another thing i would like to know is, why are you walling off your mainbase vs P? I lost a couple of Depots to the MSC Stalker Zealot push which is rly annoying, so how do i best deal with that? Or does it never happen as you ebay block him?
In the "Turning the Tables on Blink" you explain also a ton of good stuff. But what i didn't catch is, do you go for bio, or the hellion Raven transition, if it was a blink soft contain build? Or do you go for that if he rly goes heavy on stalker? Also what to do if he commits and goes up to like 30 Stalker? Do i still just stay on 6 Tanks?
Thx for you help all  I rly love playing mech, but i am missing so much information, that i play without a plan as it looks like :/
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On September 09 2015 23:02 AleXusher wrote:
Hm i thought my Tank position was ok, can you provide me some screenshots where they should have been and why? i tried, most of the time, to spread them, as long as i were on 2 bases, so that he doesnt find an opening to jump into me and kill me.
Do you have maybe some replays where your opponent goes so heavy aggressive with blink on you and you deal with it?
The problem with taking the 3rd for me is, if i use ALL my army, then he can just blink into my main <.< So i HAVE to spread, no?
I will be streaming my mech play tonight after wcs, you should swing by maybe you can catch some tvps going on.
Off the top of my head, on Terraform i'd either wall off with a eng bay+bunker, barracks factory, cc and depot or cc and ebay, I'd have to play games and figure out the best wall though)
Even I haven't worked out the correct positioning for all of my tanks just quite yet, I haven't played any tvp mech games on terraform yet and my general tvp practice has been pretty stagnant. I will say though that I use a 3rd cc + buildinlg wall off (rax with reactor, depot, turret, depends on map) to wall off the spot on coda, cactus, and iron fortress and it probably can work on dash terminal as well. But in general building placement and siege tank placement is super duper important and I am still working on it myself so I don't have much to share unfortunately.
Bodzilla I know what it feels like, talking to brick walls. I've even had it worse where you think these people are your friends, they ask you for your help for wcs and you help them....then afterwords, they dont give 2 shits about you anymore (you ask for prac games, and you get tossed under the rug or ignored). These people exist and make up the majority of the sc2 community, that is a fact.
It's happened to me way too many times, and sometimes I do it too before I catch myself, but I at least try to make a conscious effort to treat each person as a human being through the computer screen.
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oops clicked quote instead of edit haha
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On September 10 2015 00:14 AleXusher wrote:
Ok so i am tempted to try out the build in the video now, as it seems to provide me a more stable transition into the mid game. BUT, how do i deal with oracle on a 4 player map? In the video it says i get the SCV Scout at... 13? and get an ebay block, if i scout 1 pylon missing, lots of chrono safed up and 2 gas, i finish the ebay and get a turret, ez pz. but on a 4 player map the SCV might enter the main base of the P to late to do that, so just go ebay at home? Will i still be able to hold oracle? I still would love some replay packs with play vs Blink, vs Robo, vs Stargate, and ofc late late game. If anyone has such replays and would share them, that would be awesome.
Ebay block isn't essential, i just like to do it to really annoy protoss players, throw them off there game anddd establish early on that i'll dictate the game. Vs 5minute oracle the ebay block is insanely good, because you can just finish it, get your turrets AND block their transition, but thats the only situation where it's really essential.
on 4player maps i scout on 10 with an scv
On September 10 2015 00:14 AleXusher wrote:
I rewatched your "How to deal with Robo" Video
it explains a lot very good, but one thing i am still missing. After i got the BO from your first video done, and scan the main, i see what he does: Robo, Twilight or Stargate. What i am missing is the followup behind that. I know what i need to do vs Robo for instance. 9:00 min double Mine Drop and 10:00 min double Mine Drop but what is with my base? Do i get TL or Reactor first on the first fax? do i build Reactor on Starport? When do i get the Armory and when the 3rd CC?
For mine drop you get the order is this. Reactor on first factory, then starport, then reactor on Rax (you switch this as soon as it's finished with the starport) and you get your 3rd and 4th gas at 7minutes in your natural.
You dont get an add on for your 2nd factory, and instead use it to instantly start building mines as soon as it completes.
This will time out to you having enough gas for 4 mines and 2 medivacs and to drop after 9 minutes and then another 4 mines and 2 medivacs for your 2nd drop at 10 minutes.
If you watch the video there should be a spot where i show all the production i start building around 10 minutes where i get both armory's and another 3 factory's while taking my third base. You can then quickly power up into a tank timing around 14 minutes where you push with a bunch of vikings, your 4 medivacs filled with hellbats to boost over their army and you cancel any 4th base and put pressure on their 3rd.
On September 10 2015 00:14 AleXusher wrote:
Another thing i would like to know is, why are you walling off your mainbase vs P? I lost a couple of Depots to the MSC Stalker Zealot push which is rly annoying, so how do i best deal with that? Or does it never happen as you ebay block him?
I just like to wall off, the only time it's really vulnerable is vs proxy voidray busts which are incredibly rare where they snipe your depots. Theres really not alot of people that play like Has so it's generally a non-issue.
If their getting a msc zealot + stalker to your main ramp, your not getting your bunker in your nat fast enough, OR you've misread that they went for a 10 gate and you tried to get the bunker up at your standard time.
If they ignore your ebay block and push with those units and you have a bunker, their games over because their expansion is so far behind.
On September 10 2015 00:14 AleXusher wrote:In the "Turning the Tables on Blink" you explain also a ton of good stuff. But what i didn't catch is, do you go for bio, or the hellion Raven transition, if it was a blink soft contain build? Or do you go for that if he rly goes heavy on stalker? Also what to do if he commits and goes up to like 30 Stalker? Do i still just stay on 6 Tanks? Thx for you help all I rly love playing mech, but i am missing so much information, that i play without a plan as it looks like :/
You can do either Bio or Mech whether they commit to the attack or not. Bio is the smarter option because their splash damage is so delayed andd theres no way they'll hold a 3rd base, But you can go raven hellion just fine, so long as you dont let yourself get out of position. Mass hellion > Mass stalker
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Hey, thank you very much,
on 4player maps i scout on 10 with an scv So do you still do the ebay block on a 4 player map? With the 10 Scout do you send the SCV out when you start the Depot, or is it when the 10th SCV finishes?^^
Another thing i am missing, when do you get a reactor on your rax? Or don't you at all? If i remember right you had... 7 Marines at the 5:30 when normal proxy oracle would happen, is this just because of normal constant Marine production? How do you react vs the Stalker, Zealot MSC push if you have only 1 marine at a time in production?
You also show in your first video, that you build a turret in your nat, where you also have the CC. But when did you get the Bunker? Do you build the Bunker in any game? If so, when do you start it?, maybe that can already deal with the msc zealot and Stalker push, which would be cool, but i doubt it, with only one marine at a time. Or is it the case, that P doesn't do that push vs you, because of your ebay block?^^
So i tried your build now a couple of times, and always lost. The first times i screwed up gas timings, my fault, but lately when i hit the timings i still lose hard...
What happens is i do the ebay block, so far ok, if oracle good finish ebay get turrets alright, if no oracle shows up until 6:00 go double TL and get 2 tanks a time because of blink, but exactly there is my problem!
My opponent goes for one base blink, as my ebay block forces him to do so, most likely, and his attack hits with 9 Stalker and the MSC at 7:15!
At this time i have only 1 Tank barely finishing, and one bunker with 4 marines at my main and one bunker with 4 marines at my natural! Even with pulling 6-8 SCVs at each bunker he is able to kill 3-4 of them, while he is moving around, avoiding the tank, and forces me to pull ALL SCVs and get my marines to help, but it isnt enough, stutterstep and blink wins him every game, no clue how you are able to defend the one base blink if your video, but it never works for me. Tank is to late, Bunker with only marines is to weak. Any advice? Replays would be awesome, of a showmatch, anything i could watch and see and learn
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On September 07 2015 07:40 EJK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2015 06:03 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
If you're talking about deathball / strongest firepower unit comp, it's bc raven, optional viking support and optional banshees (a combination of banshees / ghosts are needed to deal with HTs). Against carriers use 4-5 WMs. why are you saying viking support is optional? And yes im talking about deathball/strongest unit comp, what am i aiming towards once i have 5 bases?
You might know some of this already but ill be thorough anyway:
Against carriers, their counter is BCs, because yamato. A pretty strong counter, surprisingly. And a few WMs will punish them for making all carriers attack at once / focus firing a BC, because easily 60-100 interceptors can die instantly. (WM positioning isn't a read / prediction, you have enough time to burrow them on reaction >:D). Maybe if its a huge map and it's a long long game and he has a huge bank, you might want some vikings so the carriers can't keep kiting you. But if it's like a 30 min ish game and he tries to mass 24 carriers, 18 BCs will beat that straight up in food and cost. I don't think it's a very good idea for protoss to try to kite the BCs if it means 9 carriers instantly die, turning it into a 15 carrier vs 18 situation, they would need a huge bank and lead to afford that. A smaller number of BCs can go even with carriers or at least be effective at significantly shrinking their numbers thanks to yamato burst, especially considering how strong deathballs in sc2 are and how hard it is to shrink their size. But when you have even numbers, the BCs will destroy the carriers
Against Voids, emp + BCs + yamato + seeker missiles (to force them to spread out so they can't focus fire and cant maximize their dps density) does fine, though vikings can help.
Phoenixes *could* kite you for a while but they can still lose all their mining bases if you just ignore them / one of the reasons why I asked for firepower, but you can just yamato if you have energy or just EMP your BCs to not worry about HTs then you could use a few vikings
Tempests used to be scary across a map of canons and HTs cus you would have to keep your army spread while you slowly march across the map and try to kill him with your slow air deathball, and keep leaping tanks / being ready with ghosts to stop HTs, while also moving fast enough to not be whittled down too much by the tempests. But then they got nerfed so now it's much weaker and mass tempest isn't that good anymore. BC + a few PDDs + some ghosts or tanks really screw over tempests
So I haven't found a situation where vikings over BCs is really any better except for some situational purposes where you might want to slightly adapt.
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yoshi and bodzilla. I have been polishing my tvp mech enough and have amassed a decent amount of games in different situations to bring forth the "standard game plan which is based around economy and scouting information.
For exqmple there are certain things protoss players can and cannot afford on 2 bases 3 bases 4 and 5 baaes.
Something i figured out is that if i see a protoss player going sky toss my reaction will vary based on how fast i scout it and how mant bases we are at. If he tries to go sky toss on 3 bases i know he cannot afford both high templar carriers and tempests. So on 3 base economy the most effecient unit at dealing with sky toss is infact the viking.
My reasoning for this is because to successfully amass a sky terran armada filled with battlecruisers and ravens you need to be on 5 bases. Theres no way around it. With that in mind the next best units you can make en mass and accumulate an effective number with is vikings. Vikings in a big enough number can take out carriers more effectively then battlecruisers on a 3*4 base economy can. Also against tempests you simply make a couple of ravens and you can deal with tempests easily.
My game plan involves the denial of protoss 4 and five bases. And to stay a base up against the protoss player and maintain my econ advantage. Vikings jist fit in so perfrctly its somethinf you can build early on for cheap that maintains usefulness until the late gamr when you can afford better air units. Dont even need more then like 4 mines to deal
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On September 11 2015 03:01 EJK wrote:
yoshi and bodzilla. I have been polishing my tvp mech enough and have amassed a decent amount of games in different situations to bring forth the "standard game plan which is based around economy and scouting information.
For exqmple there are certain things protoss players can and cannot afford on 2 bases 3 bases 4 and 5 baaes.
Something i figured out is that if i see a protoss player going sky toss my reaction will vary based on how fast i scout it and how mant bases we are at. If he tries to go sky toss on 3 bases i know he cannot afford both high templar carriers and tempests. So on 3 base economy the most effecient unit at dealing with sky toss is infact the viking.
My reasoning for this is because to successfully amass a sky terran armada filled with battlecruisers and ravens you need to be on 5 bases. Theres no way around it. With that in mind the next best units you can make en mass and accumulate an effective number with is vikings. Vikings in a big enough number can take out carriers more effectively then battlecruisers on a 3*4 base economy can. Also against tempests you simply make a couple of ravens and you can deal with tempests easily.
My game plan involves the denial of protoss 4 and five bases. And to stay a base up against the protoss player and maintain my econ advantage. Vikings jist fit in so perfrctly its somethinf you can build early on for cheap that maintains usefulness until the late gamr when you can afford better air units. Dont even need more then like 4 mines to deal
I agree with this completely. I dont even look at BC's as an option until my 4th is mining.
You can afford 1 BC per 2 gas of constant production, so if you want to get upgrades and other units, you have to do it first, or you end up with no army or no upgrades. Ravens cost exactly the same on a per minute basis as well
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Heyjo^^
i played now a couple of games, and the more i get used to your Build and the more i play and understand WHY to do stuff you recommend, the more i win. Rly a great way of playing TvP! Thx for sharing. It would be rly nice if you could answer the last questions i had on my last post, but so far i am doing quite good, still need to figure out the perfect timings, when to do what exactly to play as crisp as possible, but... your "shit" works man, gj, i love it
Only problem i have is vs Stargate Opening, as i still dont exactly know what to do against this. I tried Hellbat Viking, Thor, Medivac with some Tanks, didn't work at all.
Lost a game so hard no clue what happend and how i should have react...
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6176472
Another game where i wasnt able to read and react properly pls i need advice!
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6176604
Just seems like Mech is a huge gamble... and not viable
Nope! I am so frustrated...
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6176614
So this time i won, but it was a rly weird base trade game, still not feeling the mech... It is almost impossible to tech to BC out of 3 base, so i need the 4th ok, but at that time the P already got his dream composition out of Chargelot, Archon, HT with Storm and Immos, and some Blinkstalker, with Tanks, Medic and Hellbat i have not rly a good chance vs that. Especially if the Medics are full energy and can be sniped with feedback that easily
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6176964
How do i scout that he goes proxy Twilight into DT shrine, after my ebay block? I scaned his main at 6:00 as said in the video, BUT all i saw was 1 gate and 1 forge morphing, i checken Nat and Nexus was going up as well, so how do i scout that in time? Or do i have to blind just get turrets for no reason after i cancel my ebay block?
This time i won, but i think it was close when he attacked my natural with his pressure, i hold it, barely, but still not sure about my reaction. I rly have trouble scouting, what i love about your build is the double WM drop, this rly kills SO many probes, even if there is a cannon in each mineral line, it stresses Protoss quite hard, and behind you can fairly good expand.
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6177036
Lost vs Proxy Tempest, any advice?
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6177082
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When is the best time to push in TvT if you play mech vs bio?
a) If you push at 150 food you give up your supply advantage since bio can max out faster then mech (ie your 90 supply army will battle his 130 supply army).
b) When you reach 200 supply? But the problem is that he may have transitioned to viking/banshee/bc by now so your tank advantage does not matter as much.
c) Never? Then the game is decided almost purely by the air battle and your ground investment is almost useless (provided that he transitions to air in time and keep up with the mech upgrades).
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On September 11 2015 21:57 AleXusher wrote:
How do i scout that he goes proxy Twilight into DT shrine, after my ebay block? I scaned his main at 6:00 as said in the video, BUT all i saw was 1 gate and 1 forge morphing, i checken Nat and Nexus was going up as well, so how do i scout that in time? Or do i have to blind just get turrets for no reason after i cancel my ebay block?
We can hold any build where he's gone for early gas, even if he's proxied it. It's very tight but you can hold 1 base and 2 base blink, even if you commited to turrets so long as you dont miss any of your production cycles and you lean on your tanks for defense.
If it's early gas and you havn't seen an oracle, assume it's either blink or DT and build bunkers to defend.
1 base blink hits around 7minutes, and you should have seen an oracle at the latest by 6minutes. This means you have 1 minute to defend, and get your tank out ready for the attack. It's doable but very difficult. You cannot take your gas at 4:10 or you just die because you dont have the tank in time. The margin for error is very small, but if you nail it you can achieve it and get insurmountably far ahead.
For 2 base blink it should hit around 8:30 and you'll have 3 tanks in time. It's VERY easy to hold and it doesn't hurt having an extra ebay and turrets. Because we lean on gas units as our defense the investment in an ebay, turrets and bunkers dont hurt us anywhere near as much as if we where playing Bio
On September 11 2015 21:57 AleXusher wrote:This time i won, but i think it was close when he attacked my natural with his pressure, i hold it, barely, but still not sure about my reaction. I rly have trouble scouting, what i love about your build is the double WM drop, this rly kills SO many probes, even if there is a cannon in each mineral line, it stresses Protoss quite hard, and behind you can fairly good expand. http://ggtracker.com/matches/6177036
The double mine drop is insanely effective. I use it vs stargate openings as well, (or a slightly tweaked version of it), to see if he's commiting to phoenix or transitioning. It helps you scout what their next move is, and it's just great in general vs greedy protoss or robo protoss
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On September 12 2015 15:23 MockHamill wrote:
When is the best time to push in TvT if you play mech vs bio?
a) If you push at 150 food you give up your supply advantage since bio can max out faster then mech (ie your 90 supply army will battle his 130 supply army).
b) When you reach 200 supply? But the problem is that he may have transitioned to viking/banshee/bc by now so your tank advantage does not matter as much.
c) Never? Then the game is decided almost purely by the air battle and your ground investment is almost useless (provided that he transitions to air in time and keep up with the mech upgrades).
I'd love to help you on this, but because i've spent so much time on my TvP and TvZ, my TvT is kinda dogshit bad.
I'm not a micro player and get by off my strength is strategy, so i prefer to play the positional game in TvT. Turrets in the right places, tanks at home in the right places, scans to look for his army.
Most of my games however go to supreme lategame with BC's and ravens, because i lack the killer instinct to see an opening and then go for it. Your better off watching other terrans for that. Sorry
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I still find it hard to deal with all the shit P can do by playing your Build.
One Base blink is holdable, ok, yes, but when do i squeeze in the Ebay and the turrets to be safe vs DTs? Because if i see twilight researching, i assume it is blink, be he could also just trick me and go DTs, which will kill me, if i don't have turrets in time. VS One Base blink, i see no way holding the natural vs 9 Stalker, even with pulling 6-8 SCVs for repair, he will just walk to my bunker, see the tank fire, blink as near as possible to the tank, kill it, and then move away from the bunker, stutter step into my main, or around my nat, killing everything in his way. So i have to evacuate and go back to my main to hold it properly, as you spread yourself to thin try holding one base blink in 2 locations.
I also have problem vs Proxy Tempest, as i don't know how exactly to scout that, i mean i see oracle and Stargate, fine, but behind he puts the fleet becon somewhere on the map and goes for Tempest, with 2 factories i can't do anything, and the one rax is far from being enough. WM doesn't work, he got oracle and so detection to kill them. I rly could need some replays if you got them, and would share them, that would be awesome. So i can see exactly your opening and your reaction. The content shown in the video is not enough for me to understand you movement, positioning, thought process etc.
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You know how you finish the ebay at his natural if you think it's proxy oracle? well blink and oracle off 1 base can look almost identical. Even if you get the turrets to defend oracles and they go blink or DT you can still hold it.
Thats how i do it. Just finish the ebay at his nat.
With one base blink, you can hold it and you'll see me do it in the vid. Generally i like to have the tank in the main next to my ramp, but my bunker holding as much of the front as i can and my tank covering the bunker. Even if they blink past it, they still dont have vision of the high ground, and blinks on cooldown so it's hard to get to the tank without significant loss's.
If they try to go into the main, they've already used their blink so they cant close the gap to your tank fast either. You should get about 4 tank shots off in both scenario's and with the other tanks and marines building you should be able to stabalize and take a lead.
It's VERY hard to do, but you can do it, you just have to REALLY pay attention to how your tanks are. In most maps you can cover both bunkers and point of entry's with your first tank.
As for the proxy tempest. When you do the build, you should have a starport building by 6 minutes in all scenario's EXCEPT vs twilight. What i've been doing, but what i need ot grind out in more practice games is getting 2 mines out and a medivac as fast as possible to do a counter drop. This lets me know how he's transitioning from his first oracle and if i need to be scared of proxy tempests.
I've from that point been going into reactor'd vikings, and reactored hellions, and using the hellions to hold back his gateway units ( or counter attack) and just getting as many vikings as i possibly can.
off 2 gas you can sustain 2 vikings in constant production and you *should* be able to get out enough vikings to stop the protoss before it snowballs out of control.
Now just remember that this is stuff i'm in the process of grinding out myself, but from what little ladder games i've had vs proxy tempests, i've been able to hold them and transition.
So my solution at this point for you is to practice it yourself, try some different scenario's with practice partners and if you come up with a better way to do it, i'll put it in the video and give full credit for you 
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Thx man You're tha man^^
So i do the normal BO, 5:00 fax, 5:30 2nd fax 6:00 Scan and Starport? Except vs Twilight? I think you should somehow mention this in your first Video, as i think that Starport timing is missing
I've read through some comments and posts, and some ppl think, it would be good to go double Starport Reactored Viking, as soon as you have enough just kill the Tempest, but that can be quite difficult, i like the Widowmine drop to harras, scout and annoy, so i might try that. What i know for sure is, you have to scout for a 2nd base Protoss might get, as this is normally the followup for Protoss, so check everywhere with a marine or SCV for that. I think, but need to try that, you might be able to get both gases in the nat as well, so you could maybe produce 4 vikings each cycle?
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Well the first video only detailed the first 6 minutes and some overall philosophy's of what TvP mech was about. It mentioned some possible cheese's and how to defend them. The other 2 video's detail the next step and more indepth reasons behind them.
I think if i put the starport in the first video alot of people would build starports vs blink and have no money for tanks
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We can hold any build where he's gone for early gas, even if he's proxied it. It's very tight but you can hold 1 base and 2 base blink, even if you commited to turrets so long as you dont miss any of your production cycles and you lean on your tanks for defense.
If it's early gas and you havn't seen an oracle, assume it's either blink or DT and build bunkers to defend.
1 base blink hits around 7minutes, and you should have seen an oracle at the latest by 6minutes. This means you have 1 minute to defend, and get your tank out ready for the attack. It's doable but very difficult. You cannot take your gas at 4:10 or you just die because you dont have the tank in time. The margin for error is very small, but if you nail it you can achieve it and get insurmountably far ahead.
I am wondering how i should react if i scout one gas, 13 gateway and attempt to expand, but with my ebay block i screw P off. So... he could take his 2nd gas, and go robo, twilight or Stargate, how do i scout that in time? It could be proxied, i dont have reaper scout, and i think the 6 min Scan is to late to make sure whats going on, and even if i scan i might see nothing, so... how do i react if ebay gets killed/canceld? I mean in time, sure if i scout him going 2 gas early no problem i your build works beautifull, but if i screw his BO of, his early normal nexus 4:00 timing, and he goes crazy adds a gas and goes from there, how do i scout that? I feel like the 6min scan is to late, and an SCV scout at this time is not useful as he just kills the SCV, or proxies stuff.
If i scan at 6:00 and see nothing, oracle will hit to early for another ebay and turret, ok i got marines, but he got stalker as well, so i can hardly pull marines off the bunker to defend both minerallines, lol. also he might just walk pass the bunker with the 2-3 stalker and a MSC, which is horrible for me, it could be blink so i will be able to get a tank out in time, but... what to do vs stargate when my ebay is forced to be cancled at his natural? I got a good gameplan for the midgame, but i have the feeling with the ebay block, vs the 13 gate expand build, i have no way to survive the early, as P goes mad and does anything crazy, which i am unable to scout and react in time. What did you do against such things? What helped you?
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double SP Viking vs Proxy Tempest works! But i still have lots of timing issues in the early game, if i have to go Turrets! How do i get all the production in time? Pls help me with that^^
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6180977
So i figured out, mech drops *____* EPIC!!!
If you can do it, drop like crazy, and macro behind like a pro, i didn't nearly as good as any pro, but watch the replay and imagine, any pro macro like Bomber behind that *___*
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6181010
So after i ran into a couple of P today i have to say, with the 6 min scan, and see him go late robo, that is literly a freewin :D Your Hellbatfollowup works so nice, even with 2 collossus, lots of FF and stalker i am always able to trade soooooo nice, most of the times i dont kill him, but i get a lot of probes, trade his army and snipe his natural nexus :D AWESOME!
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EPT
