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WCS Season 3 Maps Preview

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
79 CommentsPost a Reply
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WCS Season 3 Maps Preview

Text byZeromuS
July 1st, 2014 01:34 GMT

Contents



Introduction

Foxtrot Labs
Map Introduction
Impressions
Strategy Spotlight

Deadwing
Map Introduction
Impressions
Strategy Spotlight

Catallena
Map Introduction
Impressions
Strategy Spotlight

Nimbus
Map Introduction
Impressions
Strategy Spotlight

Conclusion



Introduction



Welcome to the season three maps preview! In what seems to be an ongoing trend, Blizzard is showing that they are more willing to stir up the map pool significantly each season with several new and interesting maps. This season’s map pool features participants of the TLMC4! The new maps are:

  • KTV Foxtrot Labs
  • Catellena
  • Deadwing
  • Nimbus


In this article, we will be going over general map information, our impressions, and will be showcasing one strategy per map. These maps all took part in the TLMC4 and were tested extensively by our TL Strategy team to explore each map and their features while developing working strategies to use on each map. In general, these maps are smaller than the previous season, and each one has its own unique and interesting features that promote fun, new strategies. Without further ado, let’s check out the maps!

KTV Foxtrot Labs



[image loading]


Map Introduction



Reminiscent of Cloud Kingdom, KTV Foxtrot Labs was runner up for TLMC4. This map has four spawn locations with no vertical spawns, essentially making it a three-player map. It has the shortest rush distance of the new maps at 42 seconds from natural to natural, and it has a very tight structure with lots of choke points and almost no open space. The map is dominated by two high ground ridges similar to Cloud Kingdom’s central ridge, which provide a great deal of control over the center of the map. In addition, Foxtrot does not have any watchtowers, furthermore making center map control absolutely vital to keeping up the vision and control necessary to secure bases. This map also features risky gold bases, vulnerable from almost every side, in the interior area of the map. For the one o'clock and seven o'clock spawns, two different third bases are available, one being safer to take behind destructible rocks while the other is accessible earlier on but is much more open. For the five o'clock and eleven o'clock spawns, the natural third base is behind rocks, but there is also the option to take the harassable gold base as a third.



Impressions



This is the map Terrans have been begging for. The structure of the map allows for the easy establishment of bases as focal points to push out with your army. Lots of high ground allows for favorable Terran army engagements, with most counterattack paths converging into single, controllable lane, making it easy to defend counter pressure. Protoss players will enjoy a lot of the same features, including plenty of chokes to be used in conjunction with forcefields and a plethora of nice hiding places for proxy pylons. Zerg players will need to adjust on this map. Zergs will likely struggle to get a fourth base up in both ZvT and ZvP, as it spreads their bases far out from each other and creep is very easy to clear from the myriad of high ground ramps. Luckily, plenty of pathways allow for lots of runbys to flank or counterattack, and the complex pathing also gives mutalisks a better shot at outmaneuvering armies and harassing.



Strategy Spotlight: Two-Base Hellbat Pressure Opening (TvZ)

By: Jer99

Opening Build Order:
10 depot
12 rax
12 gas
15 reaper
17 command center
17 reactor on rax
18 depot
19 factory
20 2x marine
22 2nd gas
23 2x marine
27 switch fact and rax, start hellion production
27 starport
32 reactor on rax
40 medivac when starport finishes
44 2x marine
46 armory, switch starport and rax when 1st medivac finishes
Due to the architecture of this map, hellbat and mines are much more cost-effective on this map than on others; with such small space to run around and choke points everywhere, units clump up easily and can be prone to a good widow mine shot or a wall of hellbats.

The marine-heavy opening is favoured over other hellbat openings. This is because of how small this map is, it is more likely to catch any overlords out on the map and pick them off. Two-base pressure is preferred over the triple CC build on this map because of how wide the natural is. Since it’s difficult to get a wall up in a reasonable amount of time, one can counter this by going for an aggressive build, naturally keeping the Zerg pinned in their base. Use the reaper to scout the Zerg, try to pick off drones/lings, and then scout the map for overlords. Use the subsequent marines to pick off any overlords you find; this creates an advantageous position going for an 8:00 timing. Play conservatively with hellions and deny creep spread. Push out once your armory finishes with marines/hellbats/medivacs. It is important to keep your army in a ball, minimizing the surface area on your army to prevent ling surrounds. Coupled with the healing of the medivacs, hellbats will never die unless they are focused down one by one by roaches or banelings get a solid connection. Prioritize getting into the third base mineral line, and if there is no drones there, bypass the 3rd base and push into the natural and prevent as many zerg units from being made as possible. If this doesn't deal game-ending damage, it will put you far enough ahead to set up your third base and the ensuing infrastructure for the mid-game.

[image loading]

As Zerg, it’s very hard to get a decent engagement on this map


Positioning:


Good positioning in tight chokes on this map makes cost effective trades much easier for Terran. With all of the ramps and tight spaces, Zerg units naturally clump up, making mines and hellbats exceptionally strong. This makes it difficult for Zerg to get a solid engagement; as the Zerg players run the risk of running over mines and hellbats in awkward locations as they position their units to get a good engagement. Don’t give them time to set up; keep your army constantly moving to keep position on your enemy. No vertical spawns means this limits the map to three player spawns. Use this to your advantage by pushing out of your progressive expansions toward the Zerg. This makes it so that any runbys will be intercepted by your reinforcements path and will be shut down.

[image loading]

Mutas inevitably run into some mines


Some final notes to keep in mind while playing this map are to take the high ground ridge and position your army and mines along it to defend your expansions. Splitting the map along your expansion line is made easy with this high ground advantage. It’s easier to contain the Zerg by denying creep spread as it approaches the high ground, so make sure to keep on top of it and eventually force an engagement from the Zerg. The gold base on this map is too exposed, so avoid taking it unless there are no more minerals to mine from. Mutas can easily swoop in and pick off some SCVs, roaches can snipe them from behind the line, and even manually detonated banelings from the other side can splash onto the SCVs.

Deadwing



[image loading]


Map Introduction



Another map that made it to the finals of TLMC4, Deadwing, is essentially replacing Alterzim Stronghold as the the macro map of the bunch, albeit much smaller. The layout of the bases makes it very easy to get up to three bases quickly, with a fourth one available almost immediately as well. It is difficult to be aggressive on the initial three bases, as the the defender has a solid high ground position and the attacker limited space to exploit. In addition, Deadwing is gigantic and extraordinarily open in the center, making direct attacks fairly difficult. All spawns are enabled on Deadwing, but each spawning location naturally changes the battlefield a bit. In horizontal spawns, the game becomes much more aggressive and plays similar to Shakuras Plateau in close-by-air spawns; with the front third base being accessible on multiple fronts and vulnerable from the low ground, the pocket expansion will most likely be taken as the third in these spawns. However, this also opens up more attack paths and splits up the army more to defend all of the locations. Vertical and cross positions play out more similarly, but obviously create slight variations in expansion patterns.



Impressions



In general, it’s pretty easy to secure three bases on this map and very difficult to do aggression without a very mobile army. That said, Terran bio and muta/ling/bling are very good on this map while slower compositions like roach/hydra, Protoss deathballs, and mech have more difficulty on this map. Protoss players, in particular, need to be very wary of drops and open engagements in the map center due to the way the bases are laid out; as a result, Protoss players generally do best by turtling while using plenty of warp prism harassment. Zerg players can rejoice in four bases that are relatively close together and easy to secure. However, the downside is that, depending on the spawn, they may have a more difficult time securing certain expansions and may be vulnerable to direct pushes, especially marine/mine rallies and immortal all-ins through the backdoor hallway in horizontal spawns. Zerg players will have to be creative in ZvP to deal with Protoss greed by either attempting big busts to prevent three fast bases or by being greedy themselves. Terrans have an easier time on this map compared to Alterzim/Waystation. With an easy three-base setup, Terran can set up their economy and infrastructure early on, gain map control and deny creep spread, and then attempt to drop and pull enemies out of position. Because the map size isn’t as huge as its predecessors, units rally in reasonable amount of time to reinforce strategic positions. With the middle being so open, it’s very important for Terrans to position well or they could take a devastating loss from flanking banelings/zealots.



Strategy Spotlight: FFE Into Triple Nexus (PvZ)

By: ZeromuS

Opening Build Order
9 pylon
14 forge
17 nexus
17 pylon (by the gas geyser)
18 gateway
18 cannon
18 2x assimilator
23 zealot
*Rally probe from main to your true natural
when main nexus at full saturation (16m/6g)*
30 **cut probe production**
30 mothership core (at your “natural”)
32 sentry
34 pylon
34 warp gate
34 nexus (at the natural)
**resume probe production**

The Forge Fast Expand (FFE) opening has always been a staple of the Protoss vs Zerg matchup. While some players have been eschewing the FFE for gate expands to pressure earlier, the FFE definitely remains a viable opening. Naturally, when the Protoss of TL Strategy see a new map, we huddle together in the kitchen and begin to discuss -- what can this map give to The Wok that no map before it has given us? Usually we see an interesting attack path for the Soultrain, a good pylon position from which we can launch a Sangate attack, or an easily defensible third which will allow us to make three stargates and mass void rays until our opponent GGs.

Deadwing has brought us something truly special. Corazon was the first to notice that the only attack path towards the protoss main was through the third base, since the natural has a set of rocks blocking a temporary entrance, as well as a ramp leading into the third that didn’t look entirely huge. So we got our woks out and we discovered the most glorious of all Deadwing PvZ openers: FFE into triple nexus. Thats right, you can forge expand at the ramp by your third and then take your natural. All behind one cannon.

Due to the fact your wall will be sitting quite a distance from your main, there are a few things to consider. The first probe must be sent early (specifically when your eighth probe is halfway complete) so that it arrives at the pylon location at the perfect time. The building positioning is very specific; any misplaced buildings can leave unforgivable gaps that will leave Zerg units screaming through. Naturally, this is a very risky build. By expanding to the third you are making the rush distance a Zerg needs to cover shorter, and you can be metagamed into a loss very easily if they early pool or hit you with an unscouted bust early on. At 6:15 you will have one zealot, one sentry, one mothership core, three nexuses (one just started to warp in), and a second sentry started

As to where your buildings are positioned, here are a couple of images:

[image loading]

This first pylon is key


[image loading]

This wall is Zergling proof


Please note the positioning of the first pylon. If it is in the incorrect spot, you will not have a proper wall in. The pylon’s power field needs to be touching the side of the ramp opposite your gas geyser, and you need to have the three unbuildable hexes visible. For this reason you must have the “show building grid” option turned on. Consider as well how tight the wall is and how exposed you are to baneling busts, if you feel banelings are coming, you must add additional pylons to the wall in order to avoid losing power for the cannon. You can place a pylon in front of your existing pylon or behind it. Keep in mind this wall is flimsy and building positioning is very important for it.

After this opening, you can follow this up with any tech path. You can get a stargate and get your third and fourth gasses, or you can get a robo and explore new options for timing attacks (two robo, four colossus with range for example). The Restaurant is open for business, and all you have to do is get in the kitchen, and cook with the Wok that is fast three nexus off FFE. A standard opening on this map would include opening up with one stargate into double robo, followed by a quick fourth base. This map makes it difficult for Zerg to break you on the ground. However, in the air, mutas are always a concern. Just remember that your economy is booming and can react to anything Zerg throws at you.

[image loading]

This Nexus timing, its beautiful


Catallena



[image loading]


Map Introduction



Catallena is yet another finalist of the TLMC4, who unfortunately came in dead last in the vote. Luckily, Blizzard has seen the untapped potential in this map and given it another shot at fame and glory. A typical problem that three-player maps face is that one or both players feel forced to play a hyper-aggressive style in order to take advantage of the asymmetrical spawns, but Catallena dances around the issue by sheer map size while still managing to incorporate enough interesting terrain features to keep games exciting. With main-to-main distances that are considerably large, many gimmicky rushes are immediately removed from play, and with a very defensible natural most games can be expected to have quick second bases from both players. For a third base, players have the choice between a forward third base that extends toward the middle of the map or a safer pocket expansion to the side of the map, but both are located somewhat far away from the natural. As a match heads into the mid game, the fairly large distance from the natural to the third as well as the proximity of the forward third bases helps to create a faster-paced game. With a short walking distance between the two central bases, one can expect frequent and fierce conflict between these two points, but it’s not as clear cut as other maps that put an emphasis on these third bases. Due to the ramp structure, the defending player will always have a superior positioning advantage, making it quite difficult for the attacking player to cause significant damage. With cliffs and air space galore, (and no border like the one seen in Merry Go Round), drop and air play are extremely potent weapons. Doom drops are especially terrifying because of the long travel distance by ground from the third to the main and the choke point of the main base.



Impressions



Due to the abundance of ramps, cliffs, and air space, there are an incredible amount of ways for the opponent to defend an incoming attack at any point. The only truly open parts of the map are between central ramps and between the isolated side bases; otherwise, any choke or cliff can be used by either player as a very powerful position. From a Terran perspective, the movement options are numerous and fascinating, as there are several ways from which to attack the central third bases, and the other pocket third base is vulnerable to being cut off from reinforcement. Protoss players will also enjoy the varied terrain and fairly tight chokes which will provide them many opportunities for clever movement and positioning. However, the key concern for Protoss will be securing and defending a third against the myriad of mid game pressures available to the other races, which may be solved by using more aggressive builds on this map. The varying pathways also provide Zerg with plenty of room to maneuver, flank, and counterattack, especially toward the more open center. Zergs may struggle a bit with getting the necessary creep spread to the third and fourth bases, making aggression in the early and mid parts of the game extremely potent. However, if the Zerg is able to secure their third of the map with creep, they have can create a very defensible cluster of bases.



Strategy Spotlight: Standard Hellion/Banshee...PLUS HELLBATS (TvZ)

By:Thaniri

10 depot
12 barracks
15 marine (4x)
16 CC
17 depot
19 2x refinery
25 factory
25 reactor on barracks
30 command center
31 starport
31 tech lab on barracks
37 armory
[7:30] banshee + optional cloak

Due to the difficulty in defending either third base on this map Terran players can very well go back to the days of heavy pressure on Zerg’s third base with hellions and banshees. It’s been a while since this strategy has been in vogue, so perhaps we need a quick recap which can be seen here to the left.

That’s the bare-bones of the build, and from there a Terran player can go down many routes. This build is perfect to follow in the footsteps of ForGG's revolutionary TvZ style. ForGG's strategy features a focus on drone kills, but let’s not disregard the other possibilities. Another powerful option is to go the spoon Terran route and get some hellions and a banshee out just to keep the Zerg player honest and deny creep, then follow it up with a group of marines and medivacs to do some serious damage to the third base. Bomber might go straight into bio tank production in preparation for a big 2/2 push. MVP would probably favor going for a mech followup to the harass.

The first two hellions are scout out the map, find the third base and try to deny a few creep tumors. Being too aggressive early on leads to a big loss of map control for the Terran player and the first four hellions need to be babysat constantly to prevent losing them. In comparison to WoL, the hellions become much more important later on due to their ability to transform into hellbats in HotS, as opposed to simply becoming more and more useless as the game goes on. The damage of this build comes in when there are at least six hellions on the field, as at that number it begins to get difficult for zerglings to cause any serious damage to them unless they are in overwhelming numbers. At this point, the armory isn't quite complete, but once it is, 6 hellbats can destroy countless masses of zerglings. This magical number of six hellions doesn't answer the queen however, and that’s where a banshee’s great DPS comes into play. While a regular hellion group can’t engage queens directly, and hellbats being very kiteable with their pitiful range, the banshee raining damage down from the sky forces the Zerg player to micro his queens a lot more and can even get a kill.

[image loading]

Infrastructure at 7:37. Banshee and cloak on the way, 3rd CC nearly complete


Deciding when and where to transform your hellions into hellbats is a very important decision. The transformation time is four seconds, which is not a big deal when going from hellions into hellbats, but is a huge problem if zerg has pulled away his drones already. Missing the drones, and having to transform back into hellions to chase them creates a huge vulnerability; the Zerg player has four seconds to surround your now hellions with zerglings and take advantage of their different area of effect attack being much less effective. As such, hellions should only transform into hellbats when zerg has already committed his zerglings to killing them. 6+ Hellbats have the potential to kill innumerable zerglings when positioned in mineral lines, so even if the hellions don’t end up killing too many drones on their own, the zerg player is forced to spend a lot of larvae rebuilding zerglings or roaches to defend the attack.

[image loading]

Hellbats get a great position in the mineral line, trading heavily in the Terrans favor


Stemming from all of this damage, the flexibility of hellion banshee openers comes back into play. Most builds that rely on timing attacks after the harass will hit between 11:00-12:00, and, with any luck from an effective hellbat harass, mutas will be delayed for a full minute after that, allowing for an easy denial on the Zergs fourth base and definite denial of creep spread. However, this timing attack style should not be expected to outright kill the Zerg player as even on only three bases Zerg can produce an overwhelmingly large army.

Alternatively, as Artosis says, when you are ahead, get more ahead. A mech style with a heavy emphasis on upgrades is perfectly reasonable after a hellion banshee opening. The Zerg player will not be behind in tech, and will likely catch up quite quickly on economy, but the one thing they will lack is an army. Take advantage of this weakness with a little bit of greed, but be wary of mutalisks and get some thors out.

Don’t think however, that the hellion banshee openers will be the end-all be all of this map. With such isolated third and fourth bases, any timing attack related style will prove to be extremely effective on this map. All I do is stim, stim, stim, no matter what.

Nimbus



[image loading]


Map Introduction



Nimbus, while not quite making the finals of the TLMC4, caught Blizzard’s eye in the process. Nimbus has actually been submitted multiple times to the TLMC, but has never quite had the success it deserves due to a few major balance concerns. However, with some revisions to preserve map balance, Nimbus is now being rehashed for first-time play in the Season 3 Ladder map pool! The main features of Nimbus includes a backdoor natural (similar to Crevasse) as well as base progressions that spread toward the center of the map. The high ground areas around the fourth bases serve as perfect staging points for aggression and create a very heavily contested center area. A single watchtower overlooks the very center of the map and, due to the clever pathing, can only be taken by small units (effectively cutting up tank lines in the center of the map). Players have a choice for a third base: either the more natural, defensive low-ground base or the forward high ground base geared toward aggression. The overall base layout forces players to constantly expand toward their opponent and the center of the map, making Nimbus -- although quite a large map -- feel increasingly smaller as the game goes on.



Impressions



In general, this map is geared toward a lot of two-base and three-base aggression. The combination of plenty of airspace and the aggressive expansion patterns tend to create an environment for constant aggression. Naturally, this tends to give Terran and Protoss players initiative to attack; however, with the generally open spaces and wide ramps, Zerg players shouldn’t have too much problems engaging in most areas of the map. The high ground bases in the center will be heavily contested, which may present late game problems for Zerg players securing their vital fourth bases. The backdoor hallway into the natural third provides some opportunity for Terran to do committed rally pushes or for Protoss to do immortal all-ins as well as opening a huge concave on the third base. Air play is pretty good on this map because of the fairly exposed natural and the ability to swing into the third at several different angles, making mutalisks and bio drop play a natural go-to. Expect to see a lot of varied play come out of this map, from two-base all-ins and meta cheeses to epic, action-packed macro games fighting over the high ground fourths.



Strategy Spotlight: Quadruple Hatch Opening (ZvT)

By: Jowj

15 hatch
17 hatch (creep hatch)
18 hatch
20 pool
20 overlord
queen ASAP at forward hatch (around 5:10)
2x lings
queens as you can (while spending larva)
2x gas@6:20
spines @ 6:30
2x gas after first 2 finish
ling speed @ 100 gas


Nimbus is a large map that has all four spawns enabled. It’s somewhat of a smaller map compared to its four-player predecessors like Frost, but expect to see lots of CC first in TvZ due to the free backdoor expansion and a wall that only requires a supply depot and a barracks. With that in mind, this is a handy build that takes advantage of the Terran’s opening by utilizing greed to focus on early game creep spread. The build has seen use in the past, but on the new maps there’s even more opportunity to exercise this anti-CC first build:

After ling speed, specifics are based more on what you’ve scouted. Standard scout times apply to determine what the Terran is doing, so scout at 5:30 scout to check for fast third CC vs three rax/fac/port pushes, banshees, etc. Then follow up with an 8:00 scout to find his mid game follow-up, and tailor your build from there. The most common extension from this point is double evolution chambers before lair, and then teching into ling/bling/muta.

This opening spreads creep much faster than other macro Zerg openings by the use of a “creep hatchery” that is placed further out on the map to facilitate creep spread and spine crawlers for zoning and defense. This plays out in three important ways. First off, creep can reach the middle of the map incredibly fast, giving you an obscene amount of mid-game vision and movement boost, and consequently is a fantastic boost to your engagements. It also allows you to use spine crawlers, a mineral investment, to block hellion/reaper aggression in a cost effective way. Finally, the creep spread produced by the extra hatchery allows you to get creep past your fourth base in time for the common 3CC timing attacks utilized by Terrans to pressure the Zerg’s fourth. This creep spread can make or break a fourth base defense and is a great asset if you’re struggling to defend these timings.

However, there are downsides to this build, as you’re trading off earlier units and queens for the fourth hatch. But the good news is your production is still just as strong; the extra larva from the fourth hatchery means you’re never banking minerals early game and you’re using your money as quickly as you mine it. If the Terran doesn’t open CC first and instead opts for something like a one to three reaper expand, it can be tough to hold, but good micro and luck in the order that you are scouted can minimize losses and get you to your desired three base saturation very quickly.

[image loading]

Creep Spread by 11 minutes is more than enough to pass your 4th base in time for 3CC timing attacks.


Bunker rushing the creep hatch off an expansion doesn’t work vs this; the hatchery has too much HP and spine crawlers or lings are good enough to bring down the bunker in time to save the hatchery. Needless to say, with four hatcheries before a pool, queens are delayed significantly. So spending larva before getting larva blocked is of the utmost importance in order to stay even on units. Spread creep with the first two queens, and, from that point on, one of them will be a dedicated creep spreader. Pay special attention to pushing creep through to your fourth. This is often the biggest point of contention in macro TvZ, and having creep spread beyond your fourth hatchery can be the difference between a dead hatch and banelings killing all of your opponent’s army. Spine crawler positioning is also important. You have delayed gas for so long, you won’t have roaches or speedlings to ward off the initial hellion harass. Small variations in positioning are fine, but the idea is simply to zone the hellions and punish aggressive runby attempts with extra damage from the spine/queen/ling positions.

[image loading]

[image loading]

These spines can stop run bys with fewer hellions by themselves, but add queens + slow lings and you’ve got yourself a near impenetrable defense vs up to 10 helions.


Conclusion



With the advent of a new season and new maps, we are likely to see some old -- maybe even outdated or antiquated -- styles shine anew, while at the same time witnessing new ones break out in stellar fashion. Overall, the new maps are very innovative maps and are likely to produce amazing games in the next WCS and GSL season, with each one bringing something entirely new to the table to experiment with. Between the incredible look and intricate pathing of Foxtrot Labs, the daringly late game orientation of Deadwing, the clever and varied terrain of Catallena, and the fascinating expansion patterns of Nimbus, this season is likely to provide a lot of surprises, twists and turns, and possibly even upsets on the new maps. From the minds of your very own community at Team Liquid, we present to you: The new Season Three Ladder Maps. Enjoy!

Biggest congratulations to Uvantak, JessicaSc2, Timmay, and Icetoad who created KTV Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing, Catallena, and Nimbus respectively. It’s certainly a great honor to be selected for the ladder pool, and we hope you continue to innovate new map ideas and bring us more interesting maps in the future!


Brought to you by the TL Strategy Team
Writers: Jer99, Jowj, SC2John, Thaniri, ZeromuS,
Graphics: Shiroiusagi
Editors: Jer99, Plexa, SC2John, Teoita, ZeromuS
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ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
July 01 2014 01:38 GMT
#2
As always, if you guys have any comments/concerns/suggestions for the future let me know. Always look forward to improving with every release.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Jowj
Profile Joined June 2012
United States248 Posts
July 01 2014 01:40 GMT
#3
Hurray! Glad this finally got released, it was a ton of fun working on this. Enjoy season 3 everyone!
Strategy
Corazon
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States3230 Posts
July 01 2014 01:47 GMT
#4
Lol you guys put my build in there XD
Grubby's #1 Fan
soon.Cloak
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States983 Posts
July 01 2014 01:47 GMT
#5
Wow, bliz must've been really happy with the TLMC. Congrats to all the map-makers, and nice writeup.
vult
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States9400 Posts
July 01 2014 01:50 GMT
#6
FFE into 3Nexus is going to be a PAIN IN THE ASS.
I used to play random, but for you I play very specifically.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16071 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-01 01:55:59
July 01 2014 01:55 GMT
#7
I guess I'm meching vs Z exclusively on Nimbus. Going to be hard as hell to attack a hive cluster on that monstrosity. Lord knows what the hell I'll do vs Protoss.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
July 01 2014 02:00 GMT
#8
On July 01 2014 10:55 Vindicare605 wrote:
I guess I'm meching vs Z exclusively on Nimbus. Going to be hard as hell to attack a hive cluster on that monstrosity. Lord knows what the hell I'll do vs Protoss.


Actually, if you spawn horizontally, then you can take the closer third to the Z and push from there. Its less powerful than it was on an older version of Nimbus (where it was broken IMO) but its still very powerful. Cross is good for Z, non cross good for T on that map.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16071 Posts
July 01 2014 02:02 GMT
#9
On July 01 2014 11:00 ZeromuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2014 10:55 Vindicare605 wrote:
I guess I'm meching vs Z exclusively on Nimbus. Going to be hard as hell to attack a hive cluster on that monstrosity. Lord knows what the hell I'll do vs Protoss.


Actually, if you spawn horizontally, then you can take the closer third to the Z and push from there. Its less powerful than it was on an older version of Nimbus (where it was broken IMO) but its still very powerful. Cross is good for Z, non cross good for T on that map.


With my luck, the only opponent I'll ever get in horizontal spawns on that map is another Terran.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
Psione
Profile Joined March 2014
United States45 Posts
July 01 2014 02:03 GMT
#10
Great content guys. Well done.
Community Manager - StarCraft II - Twitter: @PsioneBlizzard
Orcasgt24
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada3238 Posts
July 01 2014 02:13 GMT
#11
I will bet money we never see that quad hatch build in WCS.

Also does this mean those 4 maps are added to the pool with no removals or are all the old maps removed and its just these 4?
In Hearthstone we pray to RNGesus. When Yogg-Saron hits the field, RNGod gets to work
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-01 02:16:27
July 01 2014 02:15 GMT
#12
On July 01 2014 11:13 Orcasgt24 wrote:
I will bet money we never see that quad hatch build in WCS.

Also does this mean those 4 maps are added to the pool with no removals or are all the old maps removed and its just these 4?


Details on the full map pool can be found here:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/14569683/new-ladder-maps-for-2014-season-3-6-30-2014

1v1 Removals
Habitation Station LE
Frost LE
Alterzim Stronghold LE
Waystation


The above four maps are replaced by the new ones.

Also, our builds aren't intended to hit WCS levels, these are fun builds that can work on these new maps that put a new (or old) strategy into the mix.

Though if I saw 3 nex FFE in a high level game, Corazon and I would be giddier than anyone.

On July 01 2014 11:03 Psione wrote:
Great content guys. Well done.


Thanks Psione! You guys keep up the great work on your end as well, thanks for taking on community maps this time around :D
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
July 01 2014 02:21 GMT
#13
That wall isn't zergling proof. The trick is to pray to Hyvaa and make 70 speedlings and attack.
Moderator
EpicDemente
Profile Joined November 2012
Chile202 Posts
July 01 2014 02:24 GMT
#14
quality post 10/10 would make sweet love to it
"Fight your heart out for what you want"
Gevrosche
Profile Joined May 2014
20 Posts
July 01 2014 02:27 GMT
#15
On July 01 2014 11:13 Orcasgt24 wrote:
I will bet money we never see that quad hatch build in WCS.

Also does this mean those 4 maps are added to the pool with no removals or are all the old maps removed and its just these 4?


Habitation Station, Frost, Waystation, and Alterzim were removed.
"Quotes are for dumb people who can't think of something intelligent to say on their own."- Bo Burnham
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
July 01 2014 02:29 GMT
#16
On July 01 2014 11:21 stuchiu wrote:
That wall isn't zergling proof. The trick is to pray to Hyvaa and make 70 speedlings and attack.


Well, thats a different kind of zergling attack. Hyvaa is love, Hyvaa is life.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Gevrosche
Profile Joined May 2014
20 Posts
July 01 2014 02:31 GMT
#17
I kinda doubt the quad hatch build will be used a pro level play, but I'm probably gonna try it out since I'll have something new to play vs CC first.
"Quotes are for dumb people who can't think of something intelligent to say on their own."- Bo Burnham
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
July 01 2014 02:32 GMT
#18
On July 01 2014 11:21 stuchiu wrote:
That wall isn't zergling proof. The trick is to pray to Hyvaa and make 70 speedlings and attack.


This is literally the first thing to happen in my testing games with Zero.

Triple hatch before pool -> baneling bust FTWWWWW.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
July 01 2014 02:49 GMT
#19
Wow, I'm actually really surprised they took all of these maps. The meta is really going to be shaken up. I mean the fact that you can FFE your 3rd on Deadwing is really crazy! It's one of the things we had discussed a bit over on the mapping forums. I'm excited to see some high level games on Catallena and Foxtrot Labs.
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
User15937
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
68 Posts
July 01 2014 02:53 GMT
#20
Geez...did two-spawn maps get eaten by zerglings or something?
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
July 01 2014 03:00 GMT
#21
On July 01 2014 11:32 SC2John wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2014 11:21 stuchiu wrote:
That wall isn't zergling proof. The trick is to pray to Hyvaa and make 70 speedlings and attack.


This is literally the first thing to happen in my testing games with Zero.

Triple hatch before pool -> baneling bust FTWWWWW.


May Hyvaa light my path in killing this greedy Toss. Amen.
Moderator
Yorkie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States12612 Posts
July 01 2014 03:07 GMT
#22
This is beautiful, just what I was hoping for. Thanks!
Hwang Kang Hooooooooooo. Follow mah boy Shellshock @Shellshock1122
sc2isnotdying
Profile Joined June 2014
United States200 Posts
July 01 2014 03:10 GMT
#23
This was a great preview, so thanks to the folks at TL.

Question: Does anybody know if Proleague is going to update its map pool when WCS/GSL do?
Jowj
Profile Joined June 2012
United States248 Posts
July 01 2014 03:19 GMT
#24
On July 01 2014 11:31 Gevrosche wrote:
I kinda doubt the quad hatch build will be used a pro level play, but I'm probably gonna try it out since I'll have something new to play vs CC first.


Its actually not AS good in Nimbus as it is on some other maps that were added, so definitely try it on a few other maps that you are curious about. The build has actually been used in high level play by Tilea and KawaiiRice when they both played actively at a high GM level. They used it in tournaments to some success, but obviously there's not games against top Koreans.

At any rate it is a ton of fun and creep hatcheries in general are underused I think so I did my write up on that. :3 PM me if you have questions about it because its a super fun build IMO.

On July 01 2014 11:03 Psione wrote:
Great content guys. Well done.


Thanks Psione :3 Thanks so much for using community maps this go round, I'm sure it means a lot to their creators to have them included like this.
Strategy
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2141 Posts
July 01 2014 03:44 GMT
#25
On July 01 2014 11:53 User15937 wrote:
Geez...did two-spawn maps get eaten by zerglings or something?

The last TL map contest did not accept 2p maps as entries, and 3 of these maps were taken from that contest's finalists.
vibeo gane,
slytown
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Korea (South)1411 Posts
July 01 2014 04:25 GMT
#26
Nimbus looks really good. Look forward to this new season.
The best Flash meme ever: http://imgur.com/zquoK
DnCL
Profile Joined May 2013
86 Posts
July 01 2014 04:27 GMT
#27
It's fun to see that, fills me with hope of new plays
Joedaddy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1948 Posts
July 01 2014 04:38 GMT
#28
what the heck is a "creep hatch?" Is this something new?!
I might be the minority on TL, but TL is the minority everywhere else.
NovemberstOrm
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Canada16217 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-01 04:54:11
July 01 2014 04:52 GMT
#29
On July 01 2014 13:38 Joedaddy wrote:
what the heck is a "creep hatch?" Is this something new?!

You place it out on the map to spread creep faster, it's been done before.
Moderatorlickypiddy
Tilea
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
New Zealand4 Posts
July 01 2014 05:00 GMT
#30
The 4hatch build which I did (and which was very similar/identical to what KawaiiRice did) is kind of significantly different from that. From just looking at that I don't feel like I would like it as much (though I've also never done it) - but 4hatch before pool is definitely something which can be done at higher/more competitive levels of play. I did it in WCS v Illusion, as well as regularly doing it in ZvT/P in high masters Korean ladder @_@
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10346 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-01 05:15:43
July 01 2014 05:15 GMT
#31
Wow, great post! I can't wait to defend those hellbat pushes and to blind scv rush 4 hatching zergs! I'm so hyped for next season! Thanks again TLStrat!
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Gwavajuice
Profile Joined June 2014
France1810 Posts
July 01 2014 06:27 GMT
#32
Very nice article
Dear INno and all the former STX boys.
wishr
Profile Joined February 2012
Russian Federation262 Posts
July 01 2014 06:42 GMT
#33
Please, make map images clickable!
* Only girls complain about balance! *
MatKay
Profile Joined October 2013
Germany30 Posts
July 01 2014 07:07 GMT
#34
Looks nice
just a Fan | All the best for TotalBiscuit!
Ketch
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands7285 Posts
July 01 2014 07:11 GMT
#35
Great article!
Edpayasugo
Profile Joined April 2013
United Kingdom2215 Posts
July 01 2014 07:51 GMT
#36
I don't get why 3 player maps are supposed to favour one player over another, could someone please explain?
FlaSh MMA INnoVation FanTaSy MKP TY Ryung | soO Dark Rogue | HuK PartinG Stork State
JunkkaGom
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)855 Posts
July 01 2014 08:44 GMT
#37
Very insightful article. Well done!
Workload overwhelming. It is a good day to work
casty
Profile Joined July 2014
2 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-01 09:10:04
July 01 2014 09:01 GMT
#38
On July 01 2014 16:51 Edpayasugo wrote:
I don't get why 3 player maps are supposed to favour one player over another, could someone please explain?


C2n+1 rotational simetries lead to inequidistances.

To put an easy example in ZvZ, if both players send their 1st ov to their opponents natural (assuming they are both sent in the correct direction), one player's ov will reach the natural several seconds before the other one does so.
Liman
Profile Joined July 2012
Serbia681 Posts
July 01 2014 10:43 GMT
#39
The winner of TLMC4 is not in the new map pool? Or am i blind?
Freelancer veteran
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
July 01 2014 10:44 GMT
#40
On July 01 2014 19:43 Liman wrote:
The winner of TLMC4 is not in the new map pool? Or am i blind?


That's correct. It may be less of a matter of "Did Blizzard think it was bad?" moreso than a 5-player map being too daring/unorthodox for ladder and WCS.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-01 11:55:12
July 01 2014 11:54 GMT
#41
On July 01 2014 11:21 stuchiu wrote:
That wall isn't zergling proof. The trick is to pray to Hyvaa and make 70 speedlings and attack.


You can pray to Shine. It doubles the number of lings ! or pray July and bring your drones with it
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
July 01 2014 12:17 GMT
#42
On July 01 2014 20:54 FFW_Rude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2014 11:21 stuchiu wrote:
That wall isn't zergling proof. The trick is to pray to Hyvaa and make 70 speedlings and attack.


You can pray to Shine. It doubles the number of lings ! or pray July and bring your drones with it

Yes, but if you pray to July, you will also have to headbutt into Force Fields for their whole duration, or until all of your units are dead.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
July 01 2014 12:20 GMT
#43
On July 01 2014 21:17 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2014 20:54 FFW_Rude wrote:
On July 01 2014 11:21 stuchiu wrote:
That wall isn't zergling proof. The trick is to pray to Hyvaa and make 70 speedlings and attack.


You can pray to Shine. It doubles the number of lings ! or pray July and bring your drones with it

Yes, but if you pray to July, you will also have to headbutt into Force Fields for their whole duration, or until all of your units are dead.


Maybe Bisu would be in awe then
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
July 01 2014 13:44 GMT
#44
On July 01 2014 21:17 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2014 20:54 FFW_Rude wrote:
On July 01 2014 11:21 stuchiu wrote:
That wall isn't zergling proof. The trick is to pray to Hyvaa and make 70 speedlings and attack.


You can pray to Shine. It doubles the number of lings ! or pray July and bring your drones with it

Yes, but if you pray to July, you will also have to headbutt into Force Fields for their whole duration, or until all of your units are dead.


Thats Leenock, not July. July played when people missed their forcefields.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-01 14:17:37
July 01 2014 14:16 GMT
#45
On July 01 2014 22:44 ZeromuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2014 21:17 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On July 01 2014 20:54 FFW_Rude wrote:
On July 01 2014 11:21 stuchiu wrote:
That wall isn't zergling proof. The trick is to pray to Hyvaa and make 70 speedlings and attack.


You can pray to Shine. It doubles the number of lings ! or pray July and bring your drones with it

Yes, but if you pray to July, you will also have to headbutt into Force Fields for their whole duration, or until all of your units are dead.


Thats Leenock, not July. July played when people missed their forcefields.

Nah, I actually remember a lot of his games where he just headbutt into Force Fields until he literally loses the game :D
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
July 01 2014 14:28 GMT
#46
On July 01 2014 23:16 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2014 22:44 ZeromuS wrote:
On July 01 2014 21:17 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On July 01 2014 20:54 FFW_Rude wrote:
On July 01 2014 11:21 stuchiu wrote:
That wall isn't zergling proof. The trick is to pray to Hyvaa and make 70 speedlings and attack.


You can pray to Shine. It doubles the number of lings ! or pray July and bring your drones with it

Yes, but if you pray to July, you will also have to headbutt into Force Fields for their whole duration, or until all of your units are dead.


Thats Leenock, not July. July played when people missed their forcefields.

Nah, I actually remember a lot of his games where he just headbutt into Force Fields until he literally loses the game :D


Xel naga caverns ?
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
July 01 2014 14:29 GMT
#47
On July 01 2014 23:28 FFW_Rude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2014 23:16 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On July 01 2014 22:44 ZeromuS wrote:
On July 01 2014 21:17 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On July 01 2014 20:54 FFW_Rude wrote:
On July 01 2014 11:21 stuchiu wrote:
That wall isn't zergling proof. The trick is to pray to Hyvaa and make 70 speedlings and attack.


You can pray to Shine. It doubles the number of lings ! or pray July and bring your drones with it

Yes, but if you pray to July, you will also have to headbutt into Force Fields for their whole duration, or until all of your units are dead.


Thats Leenock, not July. July played when people missed their forcefields.

Nah, I actually remember a lot of his games where he just headbutt into Force Fields until he literally loses the game :D


Xel naga caverns ?

There was some on Xel'Naga Caverns, can't remember against who though... ^^
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-01 14:37:19
July 01 2014 14:36 GMT
#48
On July 01 2014 23:29 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2014 23:28 FFW_Rude wrote:
On July 01 2014 23:16 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On July 01 2014 22:44 ZeromuS wrote:
On July 01 2014 21:17 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On July 01 2014 20:54 FFW_Rude wrote:
On July 01 2014 11:21 stuchiu wrote:
That wall isn't zergling proof. The trick is to pray to Hyvaa and make 70 speedlings and attack.


You can pray to Shine. It doubles the number of lings ! or pray July and bring your drones with it

Yes, but if you pray to July, you will also have to headbutt into Force Fields for their whole duration, or until all of your units are dead.


Thats Leenock, not July. July played when people missed their forcefields.

Nah, I actually remember a lot of his games where he just headbutt into Force Fields until he literally loses the game :D


Xel naga caverns ?

There was some on Xel'Naga Caverns, can't remember against who though... ^^


I remember a game on this map where he played against i think it was protoss (not sure) and he stayd on 25drones the whole game smashing armies again and again and again.

StarSix tournament ? Starwars6 tournament ? Something like that.

God we are offtopic and should stop :p
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
July 01 2014 15:31 GMT
#49
Really cool write up! Can't wait for the new maps, except for Deadwing.
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
Jowj
Profile Joined June 2012
United States248 Posts
July 01 2014 18:16 GMT
#50
On July 01 2014 14:00 Tilea wrote:
The 4hatch build which I did (and which was very similar/identical to what KawaiiRice did) is kind of significantly different from that. From just looking at that I don't feel like I would like it as much (though I've also never done it) - but 4hatch before pool is definitely something which can be done at higher/more competitive levels of play. I did it in WCS v Illusion, as well as regularly doing it in ZvT/P in high masters Korean ladder @_@


I'd *love* to get your feedback on the build because I didn't have anything close to recent vods/replays of someone 4hatching so I had to adapt it myself with feedback from Terran practice partners. PM me or whatever if you have time =D.
Strategy
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
July 01 2014 21:26 GMT
#51
I can really appreciate the work done here, thanks for doing it
Refer to my post.
Picasso
Profile Joined October 2013
Korea (South)52 Posts
July 01 2014 21:50 GMT
#52
really appreciate a post like this! These kinds of constructive analyses and strategies are what I'm used to from TL. Keep it up
Xinzoe
Profile Joined January 2014
Korea (South)2373 Posts
July 01 2014 22:28 GMT
#53
is the pvz ffe into triple nexus legit. I think even hatch -> pool will be able to get zerglings in toss base before full wall is up.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-02 01:47:15
July 02 2014 01:33 GMT
#54
On July 02 2014 07:28 Xinzoe wrote:
is the pvz ffe into triple nexus legit. I think even hatch -> pool will be able to get zerglings in toss base before full wall is up.


In cross positions, the wall is completely up with a cannon before the lings can get there on a 14/14. However, fairly early baneling busts or roach plays just completely destroy this, especially if the Protoss opts for the third nexus before extra gateways (which you can scout with your overlord). I imagine a roach/nydus could also work well with the plethora of vision that Protoss has to have in order to see everything, not to mention the backdoor hallway which can't be stopped.

All in all, I think it's a metagame move to go triple nexus, much like it's a counter metagame move to do a baneling bust or a roach all-in. Most likely, in pro play and on the ladder, this will probably settle into a fairly normal opening from both players.

EDIT: If you're talking about slowlings, yeah, it's possible to get into the main base before the wall is up, but again, that's a metagame move and assumes that you're not checking around your bases for proxies or cannons or anything (which could actually mean you're just bad as well); you would literally have to run them straight to his base without stopping.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
July 02 2014 01:42 GMT
#55
On July 02 2014 10:33 SC2John wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2014 07:28 Xinzoe wrote:
is the pvz ffe into triple nexus legit. I think even hatch -> pool will be able to get zerglings in toss base before full wall is up.


In cross positions, the wall is completely up with a cannon before the lings can get there on a 14/14. However, fairly early baneling busts or roach plays just completely destroy this, especially if the Protoss opts for the third nexus before extra gateways (which you can scout with your overlord). I imagine a roach/nydus could also work well with the plethora of vision that Protoss has to have in order to see everything, not to mention the backdoor hallway which can't be stopped.

All in all, I think it's a metagame move to go triple nexus, much like it's a counter metagame move to do a baneling bust or a roach all-in. Most likely, in pro play and on the ladder, this will probably settle into a fairly normal opening from both players.


Well, it can be adjusted like any other FFE. I mean, if you scout something early you just wall in quicker, since it uses all the same building numbers and types as on any other map.

Remember the one game you went super fast speed vs me? I just walled in before the nexus and you couldn't make it in to my base. Then I had a pretty darn safe rest of my base.

Your super fast baneling bust really hit me hard though. Honestly, IMO the biggest issues for FFE on this map the way I show it here (aside from the usual very early pools vs FFE which happens on any map) is some sort of very aggressive roach play on the rocks leading into the natural, followed by many speedlings at the FFE wall. Since this map more than any other if you FFE this way opens up the option of multi pronged attacks much earlier against the spread out Protoss. The main to third distance afterall is pretty big.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Lambertus
Profile Joined February 2010
South Africa977 Posts
July 02 2014 08:30 GMT
#56
Thanks for the nice article
The only known Reverend on TL playing SC2 and BW (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409226)
subtlerevolution
Profile Joined June 2014
France37 Posts
July 02 2014 10:43 GMT
#57
ty ZeromuS
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-02 11:10:49
July 02 2014 11:10 GMT
#58
to be honest i come here not to watch the maps (which i already know) but just to read all the whines in this thread teamliquid starts to being a funny site xD

nice maps btw ^^
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
July 02 2014 13:08 GMT
#59
On July 02 2014 19:43 subtlerevolution wrote:
ty ZeromuS


Don't thank me it was a team effort. If any one person deserves the thanks it plexa, hes been working really hard on making community maps a bigger part of our scene.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
subtlerevolution
Profile Joined June 2014
France37 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-02 14:31:07
July 02 2014 14:30 GMT
#60
Thank you Plexa

edit: thank you to all involved, vital and hard subject matter to tackle
fireforce7
Profile Joined June 2010
United States334 Posts
July 02 2014 16:59 GMT
#61
I like the new map pools so far, but I'll reserve judgment until I try them out.
I'm terranfying
Zzzapper
Profile Joined September 2011
1796 Posts
July 02 2014 17:54 GMT
#62
That wall on Deadwing looks very susceptible to "economic" early pools (ie. 8-10 with 6-8 lings). Even if you get the wall down, you can get 6 lings hitting the buildings and force a second level of walling which looks nigh impossible to do at that spot. I'm not a protoss player but I like FFEs to be able to come out even vs. early pools if scouted.
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
July 02 2014 19:39 GMT
#63
On July 03 2014 02:54 Zzzapper wrote:
That wall on Deadwing looks very susceptible to "economic" early pools (ie. 8-10 with 6-8 lings). Even if you get the wall down, you can get 6 lings hitting the buildings and force a second level of walling which looks nigh impossible to do at that spot. I'm not a protoss player but I like FFEs to be able to come out even vs. early pools if scouted.

They usually come out way ahead.
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
July 02 2014 20:34 GMT
#64
On July 03 2014 04:39 Karpfen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2014 02:54 Zzzapper wrote:
That wall on Deadwing looks very susceptible to "economic" early pools (ie. 8-10 with 6-8 lings). Even if you get the wall down, you can get 6 lings hitting the buildings and force a second level of walling which looks nigh impossible to do at that spot. I'm not a protoss player but I like FFEs to be able to come out even vs. early pools if scouted.

They usually come out way ahead.


Almost any FFE will have issues with a pool around 10 or under and you need to scout cut probes etc. Even then the early pool is very meta and if they standard area wall in ffe it will be easier to hold or if they gate expand you are even worse off with an 8-10 pool.

Three next ffe is a risky blind build but so are the counters to it. Its fun to take the risk ^^
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Shebuha
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1335 Posts
July 02 2014 20:56 GMT
#65
no 2 player maps? :[

I think maps that have backdoor naturals should be two player tbh.
kyrixluvr
Profile Joined July 2014
29 Posts
July 03 2014 01:01 GMT
#66
is it just me, or have I seen deadwing before
har har har
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
July 03 2014 01:22 GMT
#67
On July 03 2014 05:34 ZeromuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2014 04:39 Karpfen wrote:
On July 03 2014 02:54 Zzzapper wrote:
That wall on Deadwing looks very susceptible to "economic" early pools (ie. 8-10 with 6-8 lings). Even if you get the wall down, you can get 6 lings hitting the buildings and force a second level of walling which looks nigh impossible to do at that spot. I'm not a protoss player but I like FFEs to be able to come out even vs. early pools if scouted.

They usually come out way ahead.


Almost any FFE will have issues with a pool around 10 or under and you need to scout cut probes etc. Even then the early pool is very meta and if they standard area wall in ffe it will be easier to hold or if they gate expand you are even worse off with an 8-10 pool.

Three next ffe is a risky blind build but so are the counters to it. Its fun to take the risk ^^

I was referring to his last statement. The advantage will be pretty damn relevant if the P player scouts the 10 pool and reacts accordingly.
kugel
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany116 Posts
July 03 2014 19:42 GMT
#68
i will miss Frost.
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
July 03 2014 21:00 GMT
#69
On July 04 2014 04:42 kugel wrote:
i will miss Frost.


Me too. I have fond memories play testing it and watching monk and others play test i t for TLMC.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Falcon_NL
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands236 Posts
July 04 2014 14:39 GMT
#70
KTV Foxtrot Labs looks like it's really good for air plays.

OT:
I want that Team Liquid horse chess piece!
and its a BLACK HOLE !! OH MY GOD BLACK HOOOOLEEE - Tobi Wan
Frankie Teardrop
Profile Joined March 2013
United States74 Posts
July 05 2014 17:17 GMT
#71
So the only 2p maps in the entire pool this season are going to be Overgrowth and King Sejong?

WTF

And unless I am mistaken, between all four new maps, there is only 1 xel naga watchtower?

Double WTF
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
July 05 2014 20:01 GMT
#72
On July 04 2014 23:39 Falcon_NL wrote:
OT:
I want that Team Liquid horse chess piece!


That's TL Strat's forum icon (as well as our clan logo).
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Jowj
Profile Joined June 2012
United States248 Posts
July 05 2014 20:06 GMT
#73
On July 04 2014 23:39 Falcon_NL wrote:
OT:
I want that Team Liquid horse chess piece!

We want it to, rip.
Strategy
Gwavajuice
Profile Joined June 2014
France1810 Posts
July 07 2014 21:28 GMT
#74
Okay after first day of laddering, this new map pool is kinda crazy, but in a good way lots of fun, and back and forth games.

Can't wait to see pros playing on them

Dear INno and all the former STX boys.
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
July 08 2014 05:26 GMT
#75
On July 08 2014 06:28 Gwavajuice wrote:
Okay after first day of laddering, this new map pool is kinda crazy, but in a good way lots of fun, and back and forth games.

Can't wait to see pros playing on them



I only got to play a couple games but I agree really fun. Got to smash a mech player today but it was a little back and forth.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Gwavajuice
Profile Joined June 2014
France1810 Posts
July 08 2014 07:53 GMT
#76
I have a question though :

I played TvP on Foxtrot, I was bottom right he was bottom left and I had the impression it was much easier for me to pressure his third and natural than for him to pressure mine cause I had more pathways (esp after I destroyed the rocks), but perhaps his postionning was just not good enough... any thought?

Dear INno and all the former STX boys.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
July 10 2014 05:42 GMT
#77
Strategy spotlight for each of those maps should have been blink allin.
Sorry, I'm really frustrated with this shit right now. Half of the new maps seem to be superduperultra blink allin maps...
Meavis
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Netherlands1300 Posts
July 10 2014 07:41 GMT
#78
at this point I honestly feel blink is outside of control of mapmakers and in the hands of blizzard, blink is extremely limiting on map design and making a map blink proof also makes it reaper scout proof
"Not you."
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 08:30:24
July 10 2014 08:29 GMT
#79
On July 10 2014 16:41 19Meavis93 wrote:
at this point I honestly feel blink is outside of control of mapmakers and in the hands of blizzard, blink is extremely limiting on map design and making a map blink proof also makes it reaper scout proof


Oh yeah, that's definitely true. Blink is a balance issue and has never been a map issue. The maps have always had ledges, but blink was not broken until MsC and various balance changes made it too good.

I don't even understand the Protoss' players resitance to change it. The outcomes - only making blink proof maps vs making blink worse on all maps but making some maps good for blink - are very similar. Just the maps are worse. Though I guess, since the maps are not getting worse for blink, it actually is really just better for Protoss players like that currently.
Gene(S)is
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden419 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-14 15:25:39
July 14 2014 10:06 GMT
#80
On July 01 2014 10:38 ZeromuS wrote:
As always, if you guys have any comments/concerns/suggestions for the future let me know. Always look forward to improving with every release.


It was a good artical. The only thing I missed was the function "click to enlarge" on pictures.
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