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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
You hold the sangate with 4-6 roaches off 2 base with a few lings. You should be fully saturated already on 2 base and then you take your third while pushing the zealots away. Mass drone -> hydra. I think you can also hold it with 3 hatch before pool gas, but im not sure the exact response. You might be able to take the econ hit since you have 3 hatch | ||
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genzzz
France10 Posts
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Universum
Canada192 Posts
EDIT: I would like some input from Masters players on this. Do this build actually work at high level ? | ||
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Kaizen[7]
United States86 Posts
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Kaizen[7]
United States86 Posts
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
On June 17 2014 08:35 Universum wrote: I'm 18 - 6 in PvP with the 10Gate/3Gate (Top 8 Diamond). Its really nice because indirectly it also helps hold any proxy gates shenanigans with such an early gate. Thank you again writers ! EDIT: I would like some input from Masters players on this. Do this build actually work at high level ? works in higher level, but not as successful. There is also a luck factor on 4 player map. If opponent goes sentry expand and scouts u last, then warpgate is almost complete and then he's dead. Also not as good against against oracles On June 16 2014 06:44 -HuShang- wrote: You hold the sangate with 4-6 roaches off 2 base with a few lings. You should be fully saturated already on 2 base and then you take your third while pushing the zealots away. Mass drone -> hydra. I think you can also hold it with 3 hatch before pool gas, but im not sure the exact response. You might be able to take the econ hit since you have 3 hatch I wonder how u get 2 base saturation at 6:15 with roach warren completed by 5:30. Plz replay :O | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 16 2014 06:44 -HuShang- wrote: You hold the sangate with 4-6 roaches off 2 base with a few lings. You should be fully saturated already on 2 base and then you take your third while pushing the zealots away. Mass drone -> hydra. I think you can also hold it with 3 hatch before pool gas, but im not sure the exact response. You might be able to take the econ hit since you have 3 hatch First of all, I think you're missing the point. You don't simply "hold" a SANGATE. Second, I think you're in the wrong thread if you're looking to argue valid responses and actual strategy content. This guide is about BULLSHIT. On June 17 2014 08:58 Xinzoe wrote: works in higher level, but not as successful. There is also a luck factor on 4 player map. If opponent goes sentry expand and scouts u last, then warpgate is almost complete and then he's dead. Also not as good against against oracles I wonder how u get 2 base saturation at 6:15 with roach warren completed by 5:30. Plz replay :O Well, it's like ~40 drones, right? In his scenario, it sounds like he's taking the third after double queens and he just delays it for faster 2-base saturation and an emergency roach warren...in which case Protoss doesn't even need to warp in zealots to do the damage it needed to do Teehehehehe. I think in triple hatch scenarios, you cut drones around 35 and get as many queens/roaches out as you can in a short period of time. ACTUALLY, if Zerg hasn't thrown down a 3rd base by 4:00, you usually just don't do zealot pressure...you can just tech up instead and feign pressure. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On June 17 2014 08:35 Universum wrote: I'm 18 - 6 in PvP with the 10Gate/3Gate (Top 8 Diamond). Its really nice because indirectly it also helps hold any proxy gates shenanigans with such an early gate. Thank you again writers ! EDIT: I would like some input from Masters players on this. Do this build actually work at high level ? I'm one of the authors and I'm Masters as well (I wrote the One gate proxy stalker rush and the blink PvZ build parts), and yes, they actually work better, IMO, at a very high level, because of the way gameplay trends work among pros. At the high level on ladder but not quite top level (masters to middle grandmaster), players tend to do safer builds or extreme cheeses, so you may have less success. That said, I did the 2 base blink PvZ build for a month and half exclusively and had a near 90% winrate with it, so for basically all of these builds, if you execute well, expect a decent winrate. | ||
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Socup
190 Posts
On June 14 2014 22:35 Teoita wrote: Plase don't post wrong advice like it's fact. Zealot pressure doesnt use forcefields, and trading banelings vs zealots is cost efficient for the Protoss because banes are really fucking expensive early game. Protoss pressure doesn't have a bo order hard counter per se, you just need to scout it, make enough shit to defend and not missread the moment when the protoss backs out of his pressure and transitioning (you risk either making too few units and dieing if he commits, or overmaking them and being behind in econ). The zealot pressure I've encountered around the same timing has had force fields. Why wouldn't it, when forcefields can pull lings or roaches close to your zealot army to die on a wall, or limit surface area of lings so they are completely ineffective? bling are Attack By Fire. If you make more than 3 or 4 you're doing it wrong, and if they split their zealots to avoid it the bling have done their job to help your lings get surface area on isolated zealots now. Bling also do a lot of damage instantly, so even if they only hit 1 bling per 2 zealots, you're still getting your money's worth. It's cheaper than mass roach. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 17 2014 15:41 Socup wrote: The zealot pressure I've encountered around the same timing has had force fields. Why wouldn't it, when forcefields can pull lings or roaches close to your zealot army to die on a wall, or limit surface area of lings so they are completely ineffective? bling are Attack By Fire. If you make more than 3 or 4 you're doing it wrong, and if they split their zealots to avoid it the bling have done their job to help your lings get surface area on isolated zealots now. Bling also do a lot of damage instantly, so even if they only hit 1 bling per 2 zealots, you're still getting your money's worth. It's cheaper than mass roach. This is wrong. The Sangate 4-gate has only one gas and can't afford more than 1-2 sentries. In any case, it's very uncommon to see 3-4 gate pressure with anything other than zealots because it's typically used to put pressure on the Zerg while simultaneously teching. In terms of baneling vs. roach, roaches are actually much better at defending these sorts of pressure because you can retain them and use them to pressure later. In addition, banelings are horribly inefficient at dealing with zealots as opposed to roaches, which can just kite zealots with little to no losses. | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
You don't use sentries because they are very expensive and fragile, so you might do considreble damage but lose them and end up behind anyway. Additionally, they are very gas intensive, which delays your tech more than a pure zealot attack. Obviously there are exceptions, but they aren't relevant to the context of this guide and the san gate in particular. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Universum
Canada192 Posts
On June 17 2014 12:34 Whitewing wrote: I'm one of the authors and I'm Masters as well (I wrote the One gate proxy stalker rush and the blink PvZ build parts), and yes, they actually work better, IMO, at a very high level, because of the way gameplay trends work among pros. At the high level on ladder but not quite top level (masters to middle grandmaster), players tend to do safer builds or extreme cheeses, so you may have less success. That said, I did the 2 base blink PvZ build for a month and half exclusively and had a near 90% winrate with it, so for basically all of these builds, if you execute well, expect a decent winrate. The Two-Base fast Blink All-in you mean ? If yes, I'd like a bit more of your input please. As I understand it, if I suppose there is a third or I scout it this build is at max power, but what if the zerg stays on two bases wether it's because they managed a scout or suspect some bullshit like this build ? Do I just simply throw down a robo, cut the gateway number and try to take a third eventually? Do you have any recent replays ? Thank you ! EDIT: Corrected spelling mistake | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On June 18 2014 06:59 Universum wrote: The Two-Base fast Blink All-in you mean ? If yes, I'd like a bit more of your input please. As I understand it, if I suppose there is a third or I scout it this build is at max power, but what if the zerg stays on two bases wether it's because they managed a scout or suspect some bullshit like this build ? Do I just simply throw down a robo, cut the gateway number and try to take a third eventually? Do you have any recent replays ? Thank you ! EDIT: Corrected spelling mistake If they stay on two bases, you're actually ahead because of how greedy most of the opening is. Their larva count will be smaller. The most dangerous things to this build is if they scout it and cut drones early for a lot of units, or they all-in you quite early. It's a very unsafe opener against early zerg aggression, but it's rare that zergs actually commit to early aggression against a one gate expand of any kind. If he's still on two bases and you never scout a third, I would abandon the all-in, tech up and do a normal 2 base build (either with stargate or robo) and take a third after he takes a third. Watch for 2 base spire or 2 base swarmhost/nydus, and just play normal. I don't have a recent replay as I haven't been doing this build for a quite a while and I usually only save replays of when I lose, and usually not for long. | ||
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klup
France612 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On June 17 2014 08:58 Xinzoe wrote: I wonder how u get 2 base saturation at 6:15 with roach warren completed by 5:30. Plz replay :O 3 on gas, 32 on minerals and 2 queens mans you have 39 supply by 6:15. It sure seems very possible. Just tested in sp: 15 hatchery 16 pool 16 gas 2 sets of lings 2 queens I reach 32 workers on minerals and 3 on gas by the time HuSang told us. Obviously I took a 5:30 RW. You just have to inject and make drones. I also took ling speed obviously. | ||
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sc2isnotdying
United States200 Posts
On June 17 2014 10:17 SC2John wrote: ACTUALLY, if Zerg hasn't thrown down a 3rd base by 4:00, you usually just don't do zealot pressure...you can just tech up instead and feign pressure. That sounds like making a reasonable transition based off scouting information. That's real strategy based on good gameplay. I on the other hand, after seeing no third base, cut probes and continue to warp in zealots ad naseum and pray my opponent is bad at Starcraft.(He will be) That, my friend, is BULLSHIT. | ||
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
On June 28 2014 18:53 Karpfen wrote: 3 on gas, 32 on minerals and 2 queens mans you have 39 supply by 6:15. It sure seems very possible. Just tested in sp: 15 hatchery 16 pool 16 gas 2 sets of lings 2 queens I reach 32 workers on minerals and 3 on gas by the time HuSang told us. Obviously I took a 5:30 RW. You just have to inject and make drones. I also took ling speed obviously. including third hatch? also third queen for creep. i know its possible but not sure with third base | ||
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