On February 10 2014 09:38 HeyImFinn wrote: I've been messing around with Banshee openings in TvT and have had moderate success. Taking 3 shots to kill an SCV is a little annoying, but with how weak marines are compared to SC2, it's not too bad. Especially if the opponent doesn't open fast ebay. Just my observation.
Or you open up with lots of goliaths like Dirtybag (to counter banshee openings that is)
EDIT: Also BeastyQT vs LuckyGnom ESL Starbow Finals Tournament 7
EDIT again: I don't think Dirtybag's build (the one I've seen anyway) exclusively counters banshees. I think if you position/or transition right, you can stop tank pushes from happening.
On February 10 2014 09:38 HeyImFinn wrote: I've been messing around with Banshee openings in TvT and have had moderate success. Taking 3 shots to kill an SCV is a little annoying, but with how weak marines are compared to SC2, it's not too bad. Especially if the opponent doesn't open fast ebay. Just my observation.
With banshee openings, its good to force your opponent on 2 bases and prevent moveouts across the map. With this I think good follow up is vulture/mines and a fast 3rd. The opponent can go mass dropship, banshees can't keep up so you need to transition into something to deal with it.
If your good with your banshee control with the upgrade range, you can actual bounce in and out of turret range and target workers on a mineral line if your opponent puts the turret closer to the CC.
This is probably a stupid question, but is it intended that Dragoons outrange everything in TvP until you get siege mode out? They can get the range upgrade way before you can get spider mines or siege mode, and even if you put a bunker at your natural they outrange that too. How do you prevent Protoss from just pumping Dragoons off 2 or 3 gates and delaying your ability to expand until you have siege tech out?
On February 11 2014 03:07 Xequecal wrote: This is probably a stupid question, but is it intended that Dragoons outrange everything in TvP until you get siege mode out? They can get the range upgrade way before you can get spider mines or siege mode, and even if you put a bunker at your natural they outrange that too. How do you prevent Protoss from just pumping Dragoons off 2 or 3 gates and delaying your ability to expand until you have siege tech out?
You get bunker up before Dragoons w/ Range are out and then repair it.
On February 11 2014 03:07 Xequecal wrote: This is probably a stupid question, but is it intended that Dragoons outrange everything in TvP until you get siege mode out? They can get the range upgrade way before you can get spider mines or siege mode, and even if you put a bunker at your natural they outrange that too. How do you prevent Protoss from just pumping Dragoons off 2 or 3 gates and delaying your ability to expand until you have siege tech out?
On February 11 2014 03:07 Xequecal wrote: This is probably a stupid question, but is it intended that Dragoons outrange everything in TvP until you get siege mode out? They can get the range upgrade way before you can get spider mines or siege mode, and even if you put a bunker at your natural they outrange that too. How do you prevent Protoss from just pumping Dragoons off 2 or 3 gates and delaying your ability to expand until you have siege tech out?
You get bunker up before Dragoons w/ Range are out and then repair it.
I was going to test this myself before I couldn't get on earlier. (See this post for my thoughts on that) There is an optimal number of SCV:Goon ratio when it comes to repair as well, you don't want to pull more than you need!
Somebody else probably knows the numbers off-hand anyway
On February 11 2014 12:53 Wombat_NI wrote: I was going to test this myself before I couldn't get on earlier. (See this post for my thoughts on that) There is an optimal number of SCV:Goon ratio when it comes to repair as well, you don't want to pull more than you need!
Somebody else probably knows the numbers off-hand anyway
Whats work for me, is one SCV per dragoon target firing the bunker.
If you're doing a 1rax expand, a cool thing to try is to rally your bunker to a dragoon and unload. The marines will automatically fire once in range and since dragoons have a projectile attack its possible to go inside the bunker before the projectile hits you.
* * *
I've been getting tired of zergs going 3 hatch before pool thinking everything is fine. Since right now we cannot build a rax before supply depot, I've been trying to do some kind of bunker rush. You cut some SCVs in the beginning but with SCV calldown and salvage I believe its perfectly possible to get your economy back up.
8 depot 9 rax @ rax 100% orbital + marine + depot @ orbital 100% overcharge your rax
At 2:50, your first marine should be out and if the zerg went hatch first, you'll still have plenty of time to start your bunker. You may need to send two SCVs on 4 player maps to figure out where the zerg is.
The hilarious part, is even if your SCV building the initial bunker gets sniped by drones, you can SCV calldown to the bunker and continue building without having to pull SCVs from your mineral line. You can also do the reverse, pull SCVs, and use calldown to reinforce your economy.
Around 4:00 you should have enough to plant your CC and complete a wall-off.
http://drop.sc/373718 One of many games I've attempted it, but should give you the basic outline of how I think it should work.
Lemme know what you guys think, don't let those pesky zergs think they're safe!
On February 12 2014 19:25 zawk9 wrote: What are people doing in mid to late game ZvP in Starbow?
I personally go for a hydra/lurker 3 hatch dropplay timing in ZvP. Its really strong if opponent doesn't have practice vs it, and its quite fun as well. I think after that, however, you slowly need to tech up to Vipers/Defiler/Cracklings/ultralisks (though I am not sure how good they are since Dragoons scale so much better than in BW).
I'd honestly be more worried about TvZ. Smartcast Irradiate, >12 unit selection, and being able to tell the difference between burrowed units without having to individually click on them removes one of the biggest micro/APM needs from the Terran player in this matchup relative to BW. It makes dodging scourge trivial and makes it much easier to avoid a game-ending plague on your cloud of vessels.
On February 13 2014 06:28 Xequecal wrote: I'd honestly be more worried about TvZ. Smartcast Irradiate, >12 unit selection, and being able to tell the difference between burrowed units without having to individually click on them removes one of the biggest micro/APM needs from the Terran player in this matchup relative to BW. It makes dodging scourge trivial and makes it much easier to avoid a game-ending plague on your cloud of vessels.
On February 12 2014 19:25 zawk9 wrote: What are people doing in mid to late game ZvP in Starbow?
I personally go for a hydra/lurker 3 hatch dropplay timing in ZvP. Its really strong if opponent doesn't have practice vs it, and its quite fun as well. I think after that, however, you slowly need to tech up to Vipers/Defiler/Cracklings/ultralisks (though I am not sure how good they are since Dragoons scale so much better than in BW).
Got any reps? Everything zerg has just melts so fast to smartcasted storms even if you micro it (because generally they can t click faster than you can move your unira) so I'm curious if there's a trick to the micro or something I'm missing engagement-wise. Not whining, but I want to learn the matchup..
Imo proxy banshee is very strong in all matchups, you just do a seige expand and you can still afford it, just keep your scout scv alive and pick a nice proxy location. In fact the build works really nice in starbow, because at the time you can build the starport you dont have anything else to spend dosh on, its smooth.
I used to use a Rax Expand build in every match up and I found that to be the best build, especially in TvT since you can still hold all 1base harasses easily while still being ahead in economy...
... or so I thought until Kalevi, that devil, used a Reaper Opening (double rax I believe) I simply couldnt handle :X
after that game he Ghost rushed me ;< also not very pleasant, I guess my assumptions were wrong :< (when Shock gets changed, it probably wont prevent Repair anymore :X)
What kind of TvT Openings did you guys find to be msot successful/very strong and reliable?
On February 17 2014 12:28 Daumen wrote: I used to use a Rax Expand build in every match up and I found that to be the best build, especially in TvT since you can still hold all 1base harasses easily while still being ahead in economy...
... or so I thought until Kalevi, that devil, used a Reaper Opening (double rax I believe) I simply couldnt handle :X
after that game he Ghost rushed me ;< also not very pleasant, I guess my assumptions were wrong :< (when Shock gets changed, it probably wont prevent Repair anymore :X)
What kind of TvT Openings did you guys find to be msot successful/very strong and reliable?
On February 17 2014 12:28 Daumen wrote: I used to use a Rax Expand build in every match up and I found that to be the best build, especially in TvT since you can still hold all 1base harasses easily while still being ahead in economy...
... or so I thought until Kalevi, that devil, used a Reaper Opening (double rax I believe) I simply couldnt handle :X
after that game he Ghost rushed me ;< also not very pleasant, I guess my assumptions were wrong :< (when Shock gets changed, it probably wont prevent Repair anymore :X)
What kind of TvT Openings did you guys find to be msot successful/very strong and reliable?
What if u build marauders when u face this then?
on double rax then u mean? because the amount of reapers can get pretty high, with those bombs its rly annoying ;X
for ghosts its not the best solution i think, ghosts do normal dmg, imba!
On February 17 2014 12:28 Daumen wrote: I used to use a Rax Expand build in every match up and I found that to be the best build, especially in TvT since you can still hold all 1base harasses easily while still being ahead in economy...
... or so I thought until Kalevi, that devil, used a Reaper Opening (double rax I believe) I simply couldnt handle :X
after that game he Ghost rushed me ;< also not very pleasant, I guess my assumptions were wrong :< (when Shock gets changed, it probably wont prevent Repair anymore :X)
What kind of TvT Openings did you guys find to be msot successful/very strong and reliable?
What if u build marauders when u face this then?
on double rax then u mean? because the amount of reapers can get pretty high, with those bombs its rly annoying ;X
for ghosts its not the best solution i think, ghosts do normal dmg, imba!
Ye, was thinking versus the reapers. Never seen the ghosts in tvt before, cuz i never try them.
I dont like playing with imba units T_T; But, the thing is though, if u add marauders vs the reapers through 1rax only. I think u can get your factory for vults in time
In theory, i think u should be okay. Probably in the lead even against that
EPT
