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[D] Starbow strategy thread - Page 3
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HaRuHi
1220 Posts
"How to tech to defilers", check it out:+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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KDot2
United States1213 Posts
let me know if anyone has a nice build or style for ZvZ | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
On January 27 2014 10:17 shin_toss wrote: I feel that protoss has a bit of disadvantage in terms of new strats because its like 90% BW . While Z and T has SC2 units that can be used or mixed early on (roach, marauders, reapers , planetary, queen) and on the other hand. P significant difference from broodwar is only the chronoboost. Stalkers are irrelevant since you need TC for that and kinda dies so fast. (this is not balance whine, just an observation) , Well I can tell you this: I think we almost gave protoss too many new options - especially vs zerg. I can already see like 10+ different builds/timings in PvZ being (kinda) viable compared to BW where toss almost always did Forge-expand into Corsair. | ||
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Tracil
Australia505 Posts
You can get two rax with tech labs without cutting SCVs or anything, along with an OC; then you can just produce them in a continuous stream, whilst banking minerals to expand. There's enough gas to get reaper training, too. Micro'd reapers do very well against anything that can be thrown at them; marines, marauders, and vultures can be whittled down and killed, or if he splits his army you can just bumrush one group with your reaper ball. Against zerg, queens must be dodged but they don't have limitless energy, and you can often snatch up a drone kill or two. And of course, lings are not too hard to micro against either. Once elite reaper training kicks in, micro gets even easier and you can score kills on defensive structures, depots, and addons. Even if your opponent secures his base, having a pack of 4-5 bomb-throwing reapers is really helpful for scouting, denying expansions, and otherwise keeping your enemy on his toes whilst you transition to a regular army. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
On January 27 2014 18:51 Tracil wrote: I've had some TvT and TvZ success with a 2-rax reapers. You can get two rax with tech labs without cutting SCVs or anything, along with an OC; then you can just produce them in a continuous stream, whilst banking minerals to expand. There's enough gas to get reaper training, too. Micro'd reapers do very well against anything that can be thrown at them; marines, marauders, and vultures can be whittled down and killed, or if he splits his army you can just bumrush one group with your reaper ball. Against zerg, queens must be dodged but they don't have limitless energy, and you can often snatch up a drone kill or two. And of course, lings are not too hard to micro against either. Once elite reaper training kicks in, micro gets even easier and you can score kills on defensive structures, depots, and addons. Even if your opponent secures his base, having a pack of 4-5 bomb-throwing reapers is really helpful for scouting, denying expansions, and otherwise keeping your enemy on his toes whilst you transition to a regular army. Yeh 1base Orbital command with Reaper production is really strong if opponent doesn't go quick Hydras. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On January 27 2014 07:59 KDot2 wrote: I have no idea what to do in ZvZ and I never see anyone play or discuss it let me know if anyone has a nice build or style for ZvZ im not a very good player myself but i think i have the proper zvz mindset for StarBow (haven't lost a single ZvZ yet) the build i have been most successful with is 10pool->1hatch muta 10pool is like bw's 9pool except you don't sacrifice that much time before lings come out and get your economy significantly stronger. It's because initial supply cap in StarBow is 10 instead of 9. most of my wins were simply based on making zerglings and killing my opponent's natural hatch (and that was against 11-12 pools). people get way too greedy thinking it's sc2 and they can't handle the pressure. i go 1hatch muta because it follows up nicely after 10pool with your earlier gas and pool. i sometimes go 11pool (gas trick) or actually take my natural before a-moving mutas into enemy but the initial idea is here: early pool->punish greedy opponents->get mutas asap | ||
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fmod
Cayman Islands330 Posts
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fmod
Cayman Islands330 Posts
Sorry for double post here. | ||
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Ovni
89 Posts
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StraTkSloth
United States181 Posts
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StutteR
United States1903 Posts
On January 29 2014 01:39 fmod wrote: Everytime I go mutas in ZvZ my opponent seems to counter it by going spore crawlers and then transitioning to mutas. Am I not being aggresive enough with my mutas? Or, I guess I should be making more lings in response to spore crawlers? Sorry for double post here. If you have mutas first, how does he ever get more mutas then you? Don't sacrifice your economy to rush to them. | ||
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TopRamen
United States96 Posts
Here goes... Favorable on maps with a narrow natural choke, i.e. Fighting Spirit Texas Unfavorable on maps like Neo Destination 9 depot @nat 9 scout spawn closest to 3rd 11 rax @nat 15 CC 17 depot @main ramp 18-19 bunker wall off @nat 25-26 constant marine/scv 26-28 CC (in main) 30-31 depot (supply timing discontinued here) +2 rax when you get minerals (reactor one at a time) gas @30ish gas engy bay @100% +1 weapons TLab on one rax, @100% get stim, then barrel stabilizers constant marine/medic @100% CC make all 3 OC's Rush Port, +2 rax (reactor) Other notes: When all OC's are done scan Zerg at Main, Nat, and 3rd (if necessary). I generally keep my army in front of my wall, helps to stop certain pushes and helps me grab my 3rd. When you do grab your 3rd, wall it off immediately. I usually do 2 depots+turret. Build 3rd CC closeish in the main, deny ovie scouts with a marine or two. Transitions Pool first If you don't scout hatch first, wall off with bunker and make +2 rax instead of 15CC. Then take expansion. Game: http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/498773374 @1:18:35 Didn't end up winning the game, and haven't had many games where Zerg goes pool first. But it holds pool first. Bane bust I think this is probably the scariest of the pushes you'll encounter with this build. If you're worried about this, deny the ovie scout fast. I've played against one bane bust, and I lost against it, but my build was still a work in progress at the time. Should I encounter a bane bust and succeed i'll edit this. But I think this is how it would go down... Put down +2 bunkers spread out, re-wall (if broken), and get fast tanks. 2 Hatch muta Overcharge bio out, put up turrets ASAP, for 2 hatch I do 2-3 per base. Also, attacking them isn't a bad idea if you have a moderate amount of bio. Game: http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/499232601 @2:03:40 Zerg was pretty greedy, but I think the concept still applies. 3 Hatch 3 hatch builds are semi countered by this build. Though be prepared for different 3 hatch builds. Some Zergs I've played against in SBow like to opt for a fast 3rd and use it as a 3 hatch build. 1 port, 1 factory, and 5 rax should be enough to soft counter 3 hatch builds. But... You can hard counter 3 hatch muta with 2 port vessel, and you can hard counter 3 hatch lurker with 2 factory tank. I like 2 factories for the splash (super good vs ling/bling, works good in late game), but 2 port vessel with the revert should be fine for late game. Game: Don't have a good game to share right now. I'll edit post when I get a game to show. Other TvZ games using this build (some kind of out of date, but idea is still the same, fast safe 3 CC) http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/498773374 @28:00 vs [STarBo]Gypsy http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/498773374 @1:41:03 vs TEHREDBANDIT http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/498773374 @2:21:05 vs [xSAGA]eNtropy http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/498773374 @2:51:25 vs [eXeB]Sinthrill http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/499232601 @6:45 vs rsvp (GM) http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/499232601 @26:15 vs [PKFIRE] YOLOSWAG http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/499232601 @45:46 vs Potato http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/499232601 @1:00:55 vs Potato (game 2) http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/499232601 @1:18:09 vs Potato (game 3) | ||
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goody153
44095 Posts
On January 26 2014 20:50 Xiphias wrote: I think it can work, but it is very tricky. Definitely unexplored terrain. wow thanks ... so it still needs work ? but i'm glad it is definitely viable just needs more experience to pull off compared to mech | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24927 Posts
It's pretty scary how many Zealots you can crank out if you hit chronos non-stop. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
On February 07 2014 00:44 Wombat_NI wrote: I'm actually having a lot more success with your PvZ 1 gate expand than I was with my approximation of the standard BW FFE/Sair opener. Pretty cool opener, lets you put on some pressure too depending on what you see your opponent doing. It's pretty scary how many Zealots you can crank out if you hit chronos non-stop. Yeh I am not sure why more protosses haven't experienced more with 1gate openers. Relative to BW, it is a lot safer (if properly executed) and IMO more fun than forgeexpand. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24927 Posts
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itsMAHVELbaybee
292 Posts
On February 07 2014 07:42 Wombat_NI wrote: Are there certain rules of thumb regarding expansion timings from the 3rd onwards in PvT? My eco management is pretty horrible atm General rule is always be ahead one expansion versus the Terran. So if he's on 2base, make sure you have 3base, etc. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
On February 07 2014 07:42 Wombat_NI wrote: Are there certain rules of thumb regarding expansion timings from the 3rd onwards in PvT? My eco management is pretty horrible atm I think against someone that fast expands (either CC first or gasless expansion), you can take a quick 3rd on 1 gateway (+1 Robo or 1 Stargate). | ||
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