Kabel asked me to start a thread on Teamliquid discussing Starbow strategies and after receiving Nazguls permission, I saw no reason not to. I think this thread could be a help for newer players with little or no BW experience, but it could also be beneficial for more experienced players as it allows them to share, discuss and fine-tune build orders and strategies.
For now, I have listed some of my thoughts on Starbow strategies and how to think about the game in general. Eventually, I hope that other players will contribute as well in order to help us develop the Starbow metagame.
Everyone are welcome to ask questions as well. So I expect that we can merge strategy guides and "help me"-threads into one.
Using macromechanics
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I think I have to discuss this part of the game as it seems that most players haven’t properly adjusted their build orders with the introduction of the macromechanics. Basically, you should view Terran’s Overcharge, Chronoboost and Inject as a replacement for extra infrastructure. If you manage them well, by constantly injecting your hatchery or overcharging your barracks, you will be able to cut down on the amount of your production infrastructure.
This means that if you get 2 quick Orbital Commands, then you should also not be getting 3 Barracks with 1 or two reactors as well (in the early game), because you will simply end up with excessive production facilities. Talking about Reactors, try to design your builds in such a way that you always use Overcharge on a reactored production facility as this give you a double boost.
Compared to Starcraft 2, there is a much larger incentive for Protoss to use Chronoboost on Gateways than on upgrades or Robo/Stargate units as CB'ing a gateway boosts production by 100%. This can often come in handy before a timing attack or some pressure plays. But often time it is a good idea to time your usage of Chrono-boost so you have enough energy (50) to Rift-home in case your attack doesn’t work out.
At the topic, of how and when you should use Scv-Calldown, I think too many terran players are still using it like a Mule. However, it is important that you time your scv-calldowns in relation to your overall build order and gameplan. Etc. if you plan to make a timing attack at the 10 minute mark, then you probably should not be calling down Scv’s at the 9minute mark. Instead, Scv’s should be called down when you plan to play defensively over the next couple of minutes.
Last topic, I want to discuss is when to get Orbitals/Nexus upgrade. In Sc2, the answer is almost always ASAP. However, in Starbow figuring out the optimal timings isn’t as obvious. The important thing is to time the upgrades in such a way that you don’t have excessive production capacity at any point while still using energy constantly.
As a general rule: If you get the upgrade in the early game, try to design your builds in such a way, that your supply blocked while your researching the Nexus upgrade/OC. Since you can’t build workers anyway while researching it, you might as well delay your pylon/supply depots and spend the 100 minerals elsewhere.
This means that if you get 2 quick Orbital Commands, then you should also not be getting 3 Barracks with 1 or two reactors as well (in the early game), because you will simply end up with excessive production facilities. Talking about Reactors, try to design your builds in such a way that you always use Overcharge on a reactored production facility as this give you a double boost.
Compared to Starcraft 2, there is a much larger incentive for Protoss to use Chronoboost on Gateways than on upgrades or Robo/Stargate units as CB'ing a gateway boosts production by 100%. This can often come in handy before a timing attack or some pressure plays. But often time it is a good idea to time your usage of Chrono-boost so you have enough energy (50) to Rift-home in case your attack doesn’t work out.
At the topic, of how and when you should use Scv-Calldown, I think too many terran players are still using it like a Mule. However, it is important that you time your scv-calldowns in relation to your overall build order and gameplan. Etc. if you plan to make a timing attack at the 10 minute mark, then you probably should not be calling down Scv’s at the 9minute mark. Instead, Scv’s should be called down when you plan to play defensively over the next couple of minutes.
Last topic, I want to discuss is when to get Orbitals/Nexus upgrade. In Sc2, the answer is almost always ASAP. However, in Starbow figuring out the optimal timings isn’t as obvious. The important thing is to time the upgrades in such a way that you don’t have excessive production capacity at any point while still using energy constantly.
As a general rule: If you get the upgrade in the early game, try to design your builds in such a way, that your supply blocked while your researching the Nexus upgrade/OC. Since you can’t build workers anyway while researching it, you might as well delay your pylon/supply depots and spend the 100 minerals elsewhere.
Brief introduction to "new" units
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For those, who haven’t played BW and are new to Starbow, it may initially seem quite hard if you are unaware how the non Sc2-units works. Thus, below is a very short description of how the new Starbow/BW-units works.
Firebat: This unit is more tanky than its BW counterpart and I guess its comparable to a slower Hellion. This makes it quite good vs Speedlings and decent vs Zealots.
Maurauder: Compared to its Sc2-counterpart, the Sbow-version is slower, has lower range and weaker vs light units. On the other hand, it is cheaper and you can reactor it. Intuitively, that sounds broken, however, given the slower movement speed plus the fact that there are no mules in Starbow, it actually isn't as strong early game as one may think. Typically, against Dragoons you will need to have Stim before you can move out with them.
Reaper: The Starbow reaper is a bit of a mix between the WOL-Reaper and the HOTS-Reaper. It has more damage vs light, it isn't as fast as the HOTS reaper and it regenerates HP. The Reaper, can upgrade an ability that improves it in 3 ways: 1) Its HP is increased by 20, 2) Movement speed increased and 3) It can setup a bomb/Mine that explodes after 7 seconds. The latter is particularly good vs static defense.
Science Vessel: This unit has 3 abilities. 1) Irradiate, an ability that deals 190 damage to a targeted biological unit over 30 seconds and also does some splash to nearby units (very strong vs Mutalisks clumps). 2) Nerve Jammer, which reduces the damage from units within the “Nerve Jammer” by 75%, and 3) EMP.
Lurker: Strong vs units that doesn’t deal bonus damage to armored. Thus, mainly it is quite good vs Zealots, Marines, Speedlings and Hydralisks.
Medi: This unit can (obviously) heal. But it also has a Matrix ability which increases the HP of the targeted unit over 12 seconds. Further, it can Stim which increases its movement speed at a cost of 10 energy. It should be used as a support unit for bio, but may also have some potential in bio/mech situations as Matrix on Tanks can be quite strong.
Viper: The Viper has its Abduct-ability from Sc2, but it is a bit nerfed since the range is only 7 compared to the 9 range of the Sc2-abduct. It also has Ensnare, which reduces the movement-and attack speed of enemy units. Hitting enemy unit with it, can, however be a bit challenging as its projectile-based.
Roach: The Starbow-Roach is quite different from its Sc2-counterpart. While it has no speedupgrade and only 3 range, it can research Tunneling Claws, which both increases its movement speed while burrowed but also reduces damage taken by 25%. However, it can only burrow for five seconds at a time. The burrow-speed makes it good at abusing the immobility of the opponents army, but also makes it more microable during battles. Smilarly to the Lurker it is weak when opponent has lots of anti-armored units (Dragoons, Tanks, Maurauder) in their composition. Mixing it with Hydras (and Lurkers) is therefore often beneficial.
Stalker: This unit is also very different from its Sc2-counterpart. It only costs 75/50, but it is much weaker and deals less damage to Armored and Medium. On the other hand, it is a bit faster and starts with Blink and highground vision. In terms of cost efficiency it is quite good vs Mutalisks, but in most other situations you want to use it as a harass/scouting-oriented unit.
Sentinel: This is the new unit unique to Starbow. It kinda works as a replacement for the Oracle, but it is different in a lot of ways. Unlike the Oracle, the Sentnel has a weak default attack, but it also has 3 new abilities.
1) Nullsphre, which is a trap that the Sentinel can set up around the map. Once a unit gets into range of the Nullsphre, a small ball is fired at the target, which deals a relatively small damage to a single target, but due to dealing splash-damage and the addition of a slow-effect, it can be quite strong if used correctly. You can also manually target fire and turn off autocast with the Nullsphre, which can be advantageous as it (when manually targeted) has a higher casting range. I think Nullsphre both has utility as a worker-harass ability, but also to create mapcontrol and improve defenders advantage (similarly to how the Spider Mine functions).
2) Its second ability is a detection-ability. But unlike the Oracles, ability, the Sentinel cannot move while using it, this makes it quite hard to use optimally.
3) At Fleet Bacon you can upgrade Temporal Field which reduces the movement- and attack speed of units within an area. Its a channeling ability, which means that the ability is cancelled if the Sentinel if killed or moves away.
Vulture: At a cost of only 75 minerals, the Vulture makes its Sc2-counterpart (the Hellion) seem useless. It is extremely strong against light units and still decent vs armored units. However, it can become even better by planting Spider mines. Great players are able to manually detonate the mines, which increases the range of the Spider Mines and also make it launch instantly. In Sc2 you rarely want to many Hellions with your mech army, however, the Vulture is simply superior in almost every way, which means that having lots of Vultures to support your Tanks is often advantageous.
Defiler: This unit has two abilities worth highlighting. 1) Plague, which deals AOE damage, but can’t actually kill the target (leaves the unit with 1 HP left) and Dark Swarm which reduces damage taken from nonsplash ranged units to 0. Both abilities are obviously strong, and the latter is very often used to break Siege lines.
Firebat: This unit is more tanky than its BW counterpart and I guess its comparable to a slower Hellion. This makes it quite good vs Speedlings and decent vs Zealots.
Maurauder: Compared to its Sc2-counterpart, the Sbow-version is slower, has lower range and weaker vs light units. On the other hand, it is cheaper and you can reactor it. Intuitively, that sounds broken, however, given the slower movement speed plus the fact that there are no mules in Starbow, it actually isn't as strong early game as one may think. Typically, against Dragoons you will need to have Stim before you can move out with them.
Reaper: The Starbow reaper is a bit of a mix between the WOL-Reaper and the HOTS-Reaper. It has more damage vs light, it isn't as fast as the HOTS reaper and it regenerates HP. The Reaper, can upgrade an ability that improves it in 3 ways: 1) Its HP is increased by 20, 2) Movement speed increased and 3) It can setup a bomb/Mine that explodes after 7 seconds. The latter is particularly good vs static defense.
Science Vessel: This unit has 3 abilities. 1) Irradiate, an ability that deals 190 damage to a targeted biological unit over 30 seconds and also does some splash to nearby units (very strong vs Mutalisks clumps). 2) Nerve Jammer, which reduces the damage from units within the “Nerve Jammer” by 75%, and 3) EMP.
Lurker: Strong vs units that doesn’t deal bonus damage to armored. Thus, mainly it is quite good vs Zealots, Marines, Speedlings and Hydralisks.
Medi: This unit can (obviously) heal. But it also has a Matrix ability which increases the HP of the targeted unit over 12 seconds. Further, it can Stim which increases its movement speed at a cost of 10 energy. It should be used as a support unit for bio, but may also have some potential in bio/mech situations as Matrix on Tanks can be quite strong.
Viper: The Viper has its Abduct-ability from Sc2, but it is a bit nerfed since the range is only 7 compared to the 9 range of the Sc2-abduct. It also has Ensnare, which reduces the movement-and attack speed of enemy units. Hitting enemy unit with it, can, however be a bit challenging as its projectile-based.
Roach: The Starbow-Roach is quite different from its Sc2-counterpart. While it has no speedupgrade and only 3 range, it can research Tunneling Claws, which both increases its movement speed while burrowed but also reduces damage taken by 25%. However, it can only burrow for five seconds at a time. The burrow-speed makes it good at abusing the immobility of the opponents army, but also makes it more microable during battles. Smilarly to the Lurker it is weak when opponent has lots of anti-armored units (Dragoons, Tanks, Maurauder) in their composition. Mixing it with Hydras (and Lurkers) is therefore often beneficial.
Stalker: This unit is also very different from its Sc2-counterpart. It only costs 75/50, but it is much weaker and deals less damage to Armored and Medium. On the other hand, it is a bit faster and starts with Blink and highground vision. In terms of cost efficiency it is quite good vs Mutalisks, but in most other situations you want to use it as a harass/scouting-oriented unit.
Sentinel: This is the new unit unique to Starbow. It kinda works as a replacement for the Oracle, but it is different in a lot of ways. Unlike the Oracle, the Sentnel has a weak default attack, but it also has 3 new abilities.
1) Nullsphre, which is a trap that the Sentinel can set up around the map. Once a unit gets into range of the Nullsphre, a small ball is fired at the target, which deals a relatively small damage to a single target, but due to dealing splash-damage and the addition of a slow-effect, it can be quite strong if used correctly. You can also manually target fire and turn off autocast with the Nullsphre, which can be advantageous as it (when manually targeted) has a higher casting range. I think Nullsphre both has utility as a worker-harass ability, but also to create mapcontrol and improve defenders advantage (similarly to how the Spider Mine functions).
2) Its second ability is a detection-ability. But unlike the Oracles, ability, the Sentinel cannot move while using it, this makes it quite hard to use optimally.
3) At Fleet Bacon you can upgrade Temporal Field which reduces the movement- and attack speed of units within an area. Its a channeling ability, which means that the ability is cancelled if the Sentinel if killed or moves away.
Vulture: At a cost of only 75 minerals, the Vulture makes its Sc2-counterpart (the Hellion) seem useless. It is extremely strong against light units and still decent vs armored units. However, it can become even better by planting Spider mines. Great players are able to manually detonate the mines, which increases the range of the Spider Mines and also make it launch instantly. In Sc2 you rarely want to many Hellions with your mech army, however, the Vulture is simply superior in almost every way, which means that having lots of Vultures to support your Tanks is often advantageous.
Defiler: This unit has two abilities worth highlighting. 1) Plague, which deals AOE damage, but can’t actually kill the target (leaves the unit with 1 HP left) and Dark Swarm which reduces damage taken from nonsplash ranged units to 0. Both abilities are obviously strong, and the latter is very often used to break Siege lines.
Build Orders – Are BW builds still the best?
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I think the first time you play Starbow as an exBW player, you will probably feel that the BW builds aren’t nearly as good. However, after a couple of games you will probably begin to incorporate macromechanics, and they will be more effective. But that doesn’t mean that you have to use BW builds. In fact, I believe Starbow has many undiscovered builds orders which eventually will be discovered once Meta gets closer to being figured out.
As an example, let us look at how protoss played PvZ in BW: Forge expand into Corsairs into Templar tech (typically). It had little variation for protoss in the early game, and it has been one of the intentions of the Starbow team to give protoss more options. Let’s look at some of the differences (besides macromechanics relative to BW);
1) Research time of Legspeed has been reduced by 30 seconds. As slowlots are close to useless vs Speedhydras, but Speedlots are pretty good vs Speedhydras, this makes it a bit easier for protoss to surivive against Hydrarushes.
2) Rift, which costs 50 energy can teleport five units home. This can be used for Protoss to poke at the Zergs base. Kill a few drones, force the Queen to activate Enrage (preemptively), scout a bit, and then Rift home without losing all of the Zealots.
3) Stalkers starts with Blink, are a bit faster and has high-ground vision. This allows 1-2 Stalkers to easily scout the Zergs base in order to see what the zerg is up to.
As players begin to learn the game better, I expect that more and more players will begin to adjust their old BW builds to the new tools/options that are added in Starbow. Below, I have listed 3 non-BW builds that I am currently testing/using.
As an example, let us look at how protoss played PvZ in BW: Forge expand into Corsairs into Templar tech (typically). It had little variation for protoss in the early game, and it has been one of the intentions of the Starbow team to give protoss more options. Let’s look at some of the differences (besides macromechanics relative to BW);
1) Research time of Legspeed has been reduced by 30 seconds. As slowlots are close to useless vs Speedhydras, but Speedlots are pretty good vs Speedhydras, this makes it a bit easier for protoss to surivive against Hydrarushes.
2) Rift, which costs 50 energy can teleport five units home. This can be used for Protoss to poke at the Zergs base. Kill a few drones, force the Queen to activate Enrage (preemptively), scout a bit, and then Rift home without losing all of the Zealots.
3) Stalkers starts with Blink, are a bit faster and has high-ground vision. This allows 1-2 Stalkers to easily scout the Zergs base in order to see what the zerg is up to.
As players begin to learn the game better, I expect that more and more players will begin to adjust their old BW builds to the new tools/options that are added in Starbow. Below, I have listed 3 non-BW builds that I am currently testing/using.
My PvZ 1-gate expand BO
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Given the differences relative to BW, I want to outline the build order I am currently testing/using in PvZ. It is by no means final, and will probably need to be fine-tuned as I play more games, however, I think the style has lots of potential. Below is the build-order:
• 9 pylon (place it so you can wall off your natural)
• 11gate (the probe needs to scout after placing down the Gateway)
• 1 Zealot only. Delay the second Zealot.
• Build Nexus at 18/18
• Research Nexus upgrade
• Start second pylon ASAP when you have 100 minerals
• Send your 1st Zealot to scout/pressure the zerg.
• Chrono out your gateway constantly. You can also use 1 Chronoboost on the Nexus.
• When 2nd Nexus is finished, upgrade it ASAP.
• When you have 200 minerals, gey a Cyber Core and an Assimilator shortly after.
• Get twilight once Cybercore is done and you have the resources.
The key to this build is to constantly pressure with your Zealots and always have roughly 50 energy for a Rift home. Try to force the Zerg player to waste Enrages as he then will have less energy for injecting.
Once your twilight is finished, I typically get legspeed ASAP. If you don’t know which tech the Zerg goes for, I always get a Stalker out to scout for his base and kill a drone or two. Lurker rushes are probably the biggest threat for you as you do not have the infrastructure ready for dealing with it. But I think it can be done if you react fast by getting out Robo and Dragoons (with range). Alternatively, one may consider getting Sentinels for its detection-ability to hold off the Lurker-rush.
If he is going for Hydra bust, a critical mass of Leglots is necessary. If instead, you scout a Spire, you will need to counter it with lots of Stalkers (but not too many as they are quite weak vs Hydras and Lurkers).
It is worth noting that this build is quite hard to execute properly, thus it may not be the best build order for the newer player. But I think for the protoss player with great mechanics that is looking for some variation, this type of gameplay can be quite fun. The advantage of the build lies in all the pressure you constantly put on the zerg player. He is simply never allowed to drone up and can’t take a 3rd for “free”.
Replays
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• 9 pylon (place it so you can wall off your natural)
• 11gate (the probe needs to scout after placing down the Gateway)
• 1 Zealot only. Delay the second Zealot.
• Build Nexus at 18/18
• Research Nexus upgrade
• Start second pylon ASAP when you have 100 minerals
• Send your 1st Zealot to scout/pressure the zerg.
• Chrono out your gateway constantly. You can also use 1 Chronoboost on the Nexus.
• When 2nd Nexus is finished, upgrade it ASAP.
• When you have 200 minerals, gey a Cyber Core and an Assimilator shortly after.
• Get twilight once Cybercore is done and you have the resources.
The key to this build is to constantly pressure with your Zealots and always have roughly 50 energy for a Rift home. Try to force the Zerg player to waste Enrages as he then will have less energy for injecting.
Once your twilight is finished, I typically get legspeed ASAP. If you don’t know which tech the Zerg goes for, I always get a Stalker out to scout for his base and kill a drone or two. Lurker rushes are probably the biggest threat for you as you do not have the infrastructure ready for dealing with it. But I think it can be done if you react fast by getting out Robo and Dragoons (with range). Alternatively, one may consider getting Sentinels for its detection-ability to hold off the Lurker-rush.
If he is going for Hydra bust, a critical mass of Leglots is necessary. If instead, you scout a Spire, you will need to counter it with lots of Stalkers (but not too many as they are quite weak vs Hydras and Lurkers).
It is worth noting that this build is quite hard to execute properly, thus it may not be the best build order for the newer player. But I think for the protoss player with great mechanics that is looking for some variation, this type of gameplay can be quite fun. The advantage of the build lies in all the pressure you constantly put on the zerg player. He is simply never allowed to drone up and can’t take a 3rd for “free”.
Replays
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http://drop.sc/371738 (not really the best game, but it shows the build, hope I can add better reps soon when I find more time to play).
http://drop.sc/373447
http://drop.sc/373447
My TvP 1-rax expand build
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Admittedly, my PvZ build is still a protégé and not completely finished yet (I would like other players to develop on top of it). But I think my TvP 1 rax expand is much easier to execute and almost always brings you in advantage against a Protoss player that uses a BW-build.
• 9 supply depot
• 11 Barrack
• After Barrack has finished, build Command Center
• Build Geyser at 15 supply (before you do anything else)
• Build 1 Marine
• Cut Scv production at 18/19
• Start second Marine, and build 2nd supply depot
• Research OC at 19/19
• Build Bunker after supply depot has finished in front of your natural
• At 100 gas, start Factory production ASAP.
• If opponent doesn’t do anything allin’ish, only get 3 Marines.
• Get a tech lab on the barrack and give it to the Factory once it is finished.
• It is important that you research Siege ASAP, and Overcharge out tank production constantly.
• Meanwhile, rally workers to your natural. When your natural is finished, you will build one or two cycles of Scv’s before researching Orbital Command.
• Try to constantly call down Scv’s (as you for the time being are in a defensive mode).
• If opponent goes for quick Dragoon with range build, you can hold it off effectively with Siege Tanks while micro’ing behind your bunker. As a general rule: Have one SCV per Dragoon to repair the Bunker.
• Once Siege tech is out, you will be safe against Dragoon pressure (which currently is the standard build in PvT)
The advantage of this build is that it actually feels easier to execute than a typical “factory before expand”- build. Further, it is very economical, but as a downside you have no way of pressuring a greedy protoss in the early game.
In terms of follow ups, I believe a 2 base-Starport opening is the best way to play TvP. Both Banshee’s and Dropships are superior to their BW counterparts. Alternatively, you can go for some type of 2 base timing-attack with 3 or 4 factories. Remember to let the barracks build the add-ons and always overcharge the Factory with the Reactor.
Replays/VODs
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• 9 supply depot
• 11 Barrack
• After Barrack has finished, build Command Center
• Build Geyser at 15 supply (before you do anything else)
• Build 1 Marine
• Cut Scv production at 18/19
• Start second Marine, and build 2nd supply depot
• Research OC at 19/19
• Build Bunker after supply depot has finished in front of your natural
• At 100 gas, start Factory production ASAP.
• If opponent doesn’t do anything allin’ish, only get 3 Marines.
• Get a tech lab on the barrack and give it to the Factory once it is finished.
• It is important that you research Siege ASAP, and Overcharge out tank production constantly.
• Meanwhile, rally workers to your natural. When your natural is finished, you will build one or two cycles of Scv’s before researching Orbital Command.
• Try to constantly call down Scv’s (as you for the time being are in a defensive mode).
• If opponent goes for quick Dragoon with range build, you can hold it off effectively with Siege Tanks while micro’ing behind your bunker. As a general rule: Have one SCV per Dragoon to repair the Bunker.
• Once Siege tech is out, you will be safe against Dragoon pressure (which currently is the standard build in PvT)
The advantage of this build is that it actually feels easier to execute than a typical “factory before expand”- build. Further, it is very economical, but as a downside you have no way of pressuring a greedy protoss in the early game.
In terms of follow ups, I believe a 2 base-Starport opening is the best way to play TvP. Both Banshee’s and Dropships are superior to their BW counterparts. Alternatively, you can go for some type of 2 base timing-attack with 3 or 4 factories. Remember to let the barracks build the add-ons and always overcharge the Factory with the Reactor.
Replays/VODs
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ItsMavel's TvZ Bunker rush
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Currently a lot of zergs open 3 hatch before pool, which is safe against standard terran play. However, this build can punish a greedy zerg who delays his pool.
8 depot
9 rax
@ rax 100% orbital + marine + depot
@ orbital 100% overcharge your rax
At 2:50, your first marine should be out and if the zerg went hatch first, you'll still have plenty of time to start your bunker. You may need to send two SCVs on 4 player maps to figure out where the zerg is.
The hilarious part, is even if your SCV building the initial bunker gets sniped by drones, you can SCV calldown to the bunker and continue building without having to pull SCVs from your mineral line. You can also do the reverse, pull SCVs, and use calldown to reinforce your economy.
Around 4:00 you should have enough to plant your CC and complete a wall-off.
Replays
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http://drop.sc/373718
One of many games I've attempted it, but should give you the basic outline of how I think it should work.
One of many games I've attempted it, but should give you the basic outline of how I think it should work.
My “uneconomical” PvT 1-gate expand
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I think if you have trouble surviving against Terran 1base pressure builds while 1-gate expanding, my variation of the build will work pretty well. Below is my BO:
• 9 Pylon
• 11 Gate
• 12 Geyser
• After Gate is done, build Cyber Core
• At 16/18 start a second Pylon.
• When Cyber is done, research Range, and when you can afford it, a Dragoon.
• Cut probes at 22/26
• When 400 mins (around 22/24 supply), build a Nexus
• Build Dragoons constantly, and when you have 100 minerals, upgrade your Nexus.
• When you have another 100 mins, start a pylon ASAP.
• Once Nexus is done, chrono range once, and chrono Dragoons constantly.
• Upgrade the Naturals nexus once It if finished.
• Start attacking Bunkers w/ Dragoons (once range has finished). If opponent goes for a pressure/1 base timing attack, you should kite him. If he goes for a heavy vulture opening, you need to be more defensive and wall off your natural.
The advantage of this build is that you get a lot of Dragoons out very fast. Some players will almost think you are 2-gating if they have no prior experience with a protoss using macromechanics effectively. But it is worth noting that you are cutting probes for a while.
As a follow up, you can either go for the classic BW style where you add a Robo and get Observers/Warp Prism. Currently, I am testing Sentinel follow-ups, which so far seems quite good as it grants you A) Map control, B) a harass-threat and C) allows you to delay investing into the expensive Observer-tech since Sentinels have a “weak” detection ability.
• 9 Pylon
• 11 Gate
• 12 Geyser
• After Gate is done, build Cyber Core
• At 16/18 start a second Pylon.
• When Cyber is done, research Range, and when you can afford it, a Dragoon.
• Cut probes at 22/26
• When 400 mins (around 22/24 supply), build a Nexus
• Build Dragoons constantly, and when you have 100 minerals, upgrade your Nexus.
• When you have another 100 mins, start a pylon ASAP.
• Once Nexus is done, chrono range once, and chrono Dragoons constantly.
• Upgrade the Naturals nexus once It if finished.
• Start attacking Bunkers w/ Dragoons (once range has finished). If opponent goes for a pressure/1 base timing attack, you should kite him. If he goes for a heavy vulture opening, you need to be more defensive and wall off your natural.
The advantage of this build is that you get a lot of Dragoons out very fast. Some players will almost think you are 2-gating if they have no prior experience with a protoss using macromechanics effectively. But it is worth noting that you are cutting probes for a while.
As a follow up, you can either go for the classic BW style where you add a Robo and get Observers/Warp Prism. Currently, I am testing Sentinel follow-ups, which so far seems quite good as it grants you A) Map control, B) a harass-threat and C) allows you to delay investing into the expensive Observer-tech since Sentinels have a “weak” detection ability.
My thoughts on bio vs protoss
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I played quite a bit with bio builds and I definitely feel that there is potential. However, its biggest weakness is against heavy chargelots + HT’s in the midgame. While you can add in Firebats, they are a bit vulnerable if the opponent mixes in some Dragoons (as they deal 20 damage to Firebats).
Thus, I believe that terran should attempt to mix in Vultures along with his bio army once he scouts the protoss player going for Chargelots. Besides being incredible strong against light units, Vultures also only cost minerals, which means you can afford quite a few Science Vesssels, which allows you EMP all the HT’s/Archons.
This means that your midgame/late game composition mainly will consist of Maurauder, Medi, Vulture and Science Vessel, perhaps with a few Marines for AA.
Replays
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Thus, I believe that terran should attempt to mix in Vultures along with his bio army once he scouts the protoss player going for Chargelots. Besides being incredible strong against light units, Vultures also only cost minerals, which means you can afford quite a few Science Vesssels, which allows you EMP all the HT’s/Archons.
This means that your midgame/late game composition mainly will consist of Maurauder, Medi, Vulture and Science Vessel, perhaps with a few Marines for AA.
Replays
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http://drop.sc/371741
Ovni's ZvP/ZvT Muta rush
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12 hatch
11 pool
15 overlord
18 gas
start queen + 4 lings when pool finishes
constant drones, make a 2nd queen when you have the money
lair with first 100 gas
plan your queen energy so you can continuously cast nurturing swarm on your lair
2nd gas when you have 150 gas
spire, constant nurturing swarm
send a drone out to take third
save larva around 32 supply
make sure to scout with an overseer if you don't know what your opponent's doing, vs a stargate/starport build adding some scourge is key. on most maps you can wait until he moves out with an army before making spines. you can follow up with anything but since you have a high gas/low mineral income and limited larva lurkers are usually the best choice.
Replays
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11 pool
15 overlord
18 gas
start queen + 4 lings when pool finishes
constant drones, make a 2nd queen when you have the money
lair with first 100 gas
plan your queen energy so you can continuously cast nurturing swarm on your lair
2nd gas when you have 150 gas
spire, constant nurturing swarm
send a drone out to take third
save larva around 32 supply
make sure to scout with an overseer if you don't know what your opponent's doing, vs a stargate/starport build adding some scourge is key. on most maps you can wait until he moves out with an army before making spines. you can follow up with anything but since you have a high gas/low mineral income and limited larva lurkers are usually the best choice.
Replays
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replay vs goody: http://ggtracker.com/matches/4645368
Doominators ZvT Lurker/Scourge opening
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Objective
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Rough Build (Assume building drones for most of the time)
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PathWays
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As general benchmarks:
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Horribly Wrong:
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Replays:
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Secure a third expansion with as few units as possible as the terran *should* be pushing trying to find weaknesses to exploit at this time. If the terran is not pushing, then use the lurkers to contain the terran and make his life as miserable as possible.
Rough Build (Assume building drones for most of the time)
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*Assumes Terran is fast expanding
10 OverLord
11/10 Drone (This will rally to the other abses and scout)
***as soon as you build the next drone after your ovy finishes, send a drone to your natural. It should have just enough for a hatch after a few seconds
12 Hatchery
11-12-13 Pool (I prefer 12. It seems to give just the right amount of minerals, and i have had games where the extra second of time for the lurkers to build = life or death)
12 gas (fully saturate asap)
@100% Complete; Build queen at natural (IT BETTER BE AT THE NATURAL) // Build 2 sets of Zerglings
****Inject, build creep tumor going to middle of map or towards opponent, then send it to your main (or whereever you are building your hydra den)
****Use as many zerglings as you want to hunt for scvs / proxy shenanigans around map, but be sure to have AT LEAST 1 ling at terran's front. THIS IS LIFE OR DEATH HERE. You need to know when he moves out. If it's too early, rush spines.
2-3 is often enough for early bio pushes.
@100Gas: Build Lair (Possible Variant here)
(Constant drones to natural. The 11 drones in your main are enough)
(Constant injecting)
@50% Lair Complete; Start hydralisk den
@100%Lair Complete; Build second gas (full saturate) // Start Lurker Den
@30%-50% Lurker Complete; Build 2-3 overlords, save larva
@5 Larva, build 5 hydralisks
(You will have the minerals to take a third around this time, use your best judgement to determine if it is truly safe to do so. I personally REALLY do not like getting the extra queen here, I find it unnecessary and distracting from microing the 5 units that will keep you alive for ~5+ mins)
@100%LurkerDen Complete; morph 5 Lurkers. You should have JUST enough gas for 5-6 lurkers at this point and enough mins for a hatchery.
@150 Gas; ViperNest + Abduct OR save for spire.
10 OverLord
11/10 Drone (This will rally to the other abses and scout)
***as soon as you build the next drone after your ovy finishes, send a drone to your natural. It should have just enough for a hatch after a few seconds
12 Hatchery
11-12-13 Pool (I prefer 12. It seems to give just the right amount of minerals, and i have had games where the extra second of time for the lurkers to build = life or death)
12 gas (fully saturate asap)
@100% Complete; Build queen at natural (IT BETTER BE AT THE NATURAL) // Build 2 sets of Zerglings
****Inject, build creep tumor going to middle of map or towards opponent, then send it to your main (or whereever you are building your hydra den)
****Use as many zerglings as you want to hunt for scvs / proxy shenanigans around map, but be sure to have AT LEAST 1 ling at terran's front. THIS IS LIFE OR DEATH HERE. You need to know when he moves out. If it's too early, rush spines.
2-3 is often enough for early bio pushes.
@100Gas: Build Lair (Possible Variant here)
(Constant drones to natural. The 11 drones in your main are enough)
(Constant injecting)
@50% Lair Complete; Start hydralisk den
@100%Lair Complete; Build second gas (full saturate) // Start Lurker Den
@30%-50% Lurker Complete; Build 2-3 overlords, save larva
@5 Larva, build 5 hydralisks
(You will have the minerals to take a third around this time, use your best judgement to determine if it is truly safe to do so. I personally REALLY do not like getting the extra queen here, I find it unnecessary and distracting from microing the 5 units that will keep you alive for ~5+ mins)
@100%LurkerDen Complete; morph 5 Lurkers. You should have JUST enough gas for 5-6 lurkers at this point and enough mins for a hatchery.
@150 Gas; ViperNest + Abduct OR save for spire.
PathWays
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In Sbow, I find mutas to be really fun to mass and just kill everything with... but against any good terran science vessels exist, making mutas nearly extinct. However, if he IS going SKTerran style (No tanks), you NEED the scourge to kill the science vessels to protect your lurkers and to keep terran from getting out of control. If you choose to be greedy and get Viper Nest over Spire first and terran has science vessels, it's almost a BO loss. Abduct won't do anything since you have nothing that shoots up (your hydras don't have speed yet). If Terran DOES get tanks however, vipers + abduct can do A LOT of wonders vs tanks for much cheaper than mutas. Vs the 1-3 tanks a terran will have at this early point, simply abduct the tanks into your lurkers while trying not to get your viper killed. Also, the viper nest allows you to get your hive faster, which you need for adrenal, nydus(map dependant) and defilers (DO NOT !@#$ING FORGET ADRENAL GLANDS, THIS IS NOT SC2!)
As general benchmarks:
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5-6 Lurkerrs by the time Terran reaches you
Viper Nest or Spire soon after
Ling speed soemwhere in here Idk
Third base w/ ~11+ on minerals & 3 on gas
Double Evos w/ 1/1 Starting at aroudn the same time as your Hive
Hive @ ~11-14mins
Viper Nest or Spire soon after
Ling speed soemwhere in here Idk
Third base w/ ~11+ on minerals & 3 on gas
Double Evos w/ 1/1 Starting at aroudn the same time as your Hive
Hive @ ~11-14mins
Horribly Wrong:
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If you scout anything other than a fast CC (1 rax or cc first), the first 100gas turns into speed and you need to scout and try to assess the situation. Vs light harass such as reaver expo or vulture expo, lings and a spine should be enough. Proceed as planned, but slightly delayed. Vs heavy pressure,... you may need hydras, a second queen, a lot of spines, or spores (overseers). Play accordingly.
FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY DO NOT LOSE YOUR FIRST 5 LURKERS! They are the ONLY ground defense you have that can zone a bio ball short of a wall of spines (which offer no map presence. At least lurkers can threaten).
I've had many a game where i mismanaged my timings slightly, and my lurkers were finished... right after the bio ball was already inside my base -___-. Timings are super critical the first several minutes. (At least in Diamond+)
It is possible that your third will be delayed / denied. DON'T PANIC (yet much,..) Just place a Hatch in your main, drone up a bit, get ling speed, and fight for map control with lings and lurkers. You NEED a third b4 you can fully go into scourge , hive tech. If terran denies your third EVEN AFTER you get to hive tech, (you probably skipped upgrades to make it happen), you are all in on defilers. Make something happen.
FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY DO NOT LOSE YOUR FIRST 5 LURKERS! They are the ONLY ground defense you have that can zone a bio ball short of a wall of spines (which offer no map presence. At least lurkers can threaten).
I've had many a game where i mismanaged my timings slightly, and my lurkers were finished... right after the bio ball was already inside my base -___-. Timings are super critical the first several minutes. (At least in Diamond+)
It is possible that your third will be delayed / denied. DON'T PANIC (yet much,..) Just place a Hatch in your main, drone up a bit, get ling speed, and fight for map control with lings and lurkers. You NEED a third b4 you can fully go into scourge , hive tech. If terran denies your third EVEN AFTER you get to hive tech, (you probably skipped upgrades to make it happen), you are all in on defilers. Make something happen.
Replays:
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This is the only 1 for now, its late. G2g2 bed. (Note, I Played this guy 3 times. The first 2 times i went viper nest vs his skterran and got rekt. The third time I LEARN!)
http://drop.sc/371650
http://drop.sc/371650
Seasons thoughts on TvT bio w/ Ghosts
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I don't really have much of a build order or guide for this as I've not used it enough (or at a high level) or perfected any aspect of my play. It is simply a replay showing Bio can be viable vs Mech
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As is/was with Bio vs Mech in SC2, you really need to limit the amount of siege tanks that your opponent has, which is why I do a few pushes in the early stages of the game.
Then, later, the reason why Ghosts are so effective is because of their Shock ability which unsieges sieged siege tanks.
For anyone curious the major battles where the use of Ghosts are very affective come at 12:15, 18:30, and 19:55. The game ends shortly after at the 20:30 mark with us just talking for a bit.
Replays
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Ganils +1 TvZ timing
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11 rax (start producing marines)
15 cc
gaz at ~3.45 min (in game timer)
tech lab on rax
ebay => +1 atk asap
2nd rax (reactor asap)
===
1st variation
3rd rax (reactor asap)
when 3rd rax is started, remove 2 scv from gaz
at around 35 supply, get both oc (your raxs/reactors are building and can't spend your minerals in marines).
when you start your 2nd reactor, put scv back on gaz
marines range when stim is done
chrono marines/medic production
push with 4 medics, 2 or 4 firebats and a crapton of marines.
benchmark: 8.30 min, 70 supply & move out
start factory & +1 bio armor
get 2nd gaz & so on.
2nd variation
In this version you get 2 rax and faster tech instead.
Start Factory between 6.45 and 7.15. You will need to cut a few Marines to afford this.
Replays/VODs
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Topramen's economical TvZ opening
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This build works best on maps with a narrow natural choke (Fighting Spirit, Texas), but is more unfavorable on maps like
Neo Destination.
Build order
9 depot @nat
9 scout spawn closest to 3rd
11 rax @nat
15 CC
17 depot @main ramp
18-19 bunker wall off @nat
25-26 constant marine/scv
26-28 CC (in main)
30-31 depot
(supply timing discontinued here)
+2 rax when you get minerals (reactor one at a time)
gas
@30ish gas engy bay @100% +1 weapons
TLab on one rax, @100% get stim, then barrel stabilizers
constant marine/medic
@100% CC make all 3 OC's
Rush Port, +2 rax (reactor)
Other notes:
When all OC's are done scan Zerg at Main, Nat, and 3rd (if necessary).
I generally keep my army in front of my wall, helps to stop certain pushes and helps me grab my 3rd.
When you do grab your 3rd, wall it off immediately. I usually do 2 depots+turret.
Build 3rd CC closeish in the main, deny ovie scouts with a marine or two.
Reacting to what the opponent is doing
Against pool first: Wall off with bunker and make +2 rax instead of 15CC. Then take expansion.
Against a baneling bust: I think this is probably the scariest of the pushes you'll encounter with this build. If you're worried about this, deny the ovie scout fast.
I've played against one bane bust, and I lost against it, but my build was still a work in progress at the time. Should I encounter a bane bust and succeed i'll edit this. But I think this is how it would go down: Put down +2 bunkers spread out, re-wall (if broken), and get fast tanks.
Against 2 hatch Muta: Overcharge bio out, put up turrets ASAP, for 2 hatch I do 2-3 per base.
Also, attacking them isn't a bad idea if you have a moderate amount of bio.
3 hatch openings: 3 hatch builds are semi countered by this build. Though be prepared for different 3 hatch builds. Some Zergs I've played against in SBow like to opt for a fast 3rd and use it as a 3 hatch build. 1 port, 1 factory, and 5 rax should be enough to soft counter 3 hatch builds.
But... You can hard counter 3 hatch muta with 2 port vessel, and you can hard counter 3 hatch lurker with 2 factory tank.
I like 2 factories for the splash (super good vs ling/bling, works good in late game), but 2 port vessel with the revert should be fine for late game.
Replays
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http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/498773374 @1:18:35 (vs pool first)
http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/499232601 @2:03:40 (vs Muta opening)
Other TvZ games using this build (some kind of out of date, but idea is still the same, fast safe 3 CC)
http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/498773374 @28:00 vs [STarBo]Gypsy
http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/498773374 @1:41:03 vs TEHREDBANDIT
http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/498773374 @2:21:05 vs [xSAGA]eNtropy
http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/498773374 @2:51:25 vs [eXeB]Sinthrill
http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/499232601 @6:45 vs rsvp (GM)
http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/499232601 @26:15 vs [PKFIRE] YOLOSWAG
http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/499232601 @45:46 vs Potato
http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/499232601 @1:00:55 vs Potato (game 2)
http://www.twitch.tv/topramen789/b/499232601 @1:18:09 vs Potato (game 3)
TheredBandidt's ZvT baneling style
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Build order:
- Ol at 10.
- Hatch at 10.
- Drone scout 10-13 ( depending map).
- Third hatch in base ( macro hatch).
- Pool at 13ish
- Saturate 9-12 drones per min patch.
- One gas.
- Take exp away from main base ( farish expo).
- Make a couple more drones into 2nd macro hatch. * don't overdrone.
Briefly after, a solid terran player will attack with a good sized bio army. Therefore, you should get Baneling Nest, and get out lots of of lings off your 4 main base hatches ( natural/main base/ macro hatches). Use your far base only for drones. Stay on one goas only and continue making lings and morph them into banes.
You should not be making Mutalisks with this build as you often will be caught on the wrong foot during the transition. Instead, you should use Scourges to deal with dropplay.
Replays
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http://drop.sc/373455
http://drop.sc/373454
http://drop.sc/373453
http://drop.sc/373452
http://drop.sc/373451
http://drop.sc/373454
http://drop.sc/373453
http://drop.sc/373452
http://drop.sc/373451
Jay's ZvT Muta/ling rush
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11 Overlord
11 spawning pool and scout
(--> if against CC first allin/pressure???; not sure if it works, may need to scout a little earlier!)
13 natural hatchery
12 queen+2zerglings (upon spawning pool completion)
17 extractor
--> use queen for inject + spawn a creep tumor in your main
--> use your pair of zerglings to get rid of pesky scouts
--> usually your opponent should only see that you went pool first, built a queen and are now starting a gas (which you could cancel)
16 overlord
drones...
100%natural start a queen
lair @100gas and use nurturing swarm on it as often as possible
build a spine at the front
take your second gas
version 1 (if you see Terran teching?):
@100% lair start a spire (in your main where you spread creep before, keep it hidden!), nurture it, spend the rest of your energy on injects
~60% completetion stop building drones (make sure you have enough overlords)
@100% spire start 4-6mutalisks
~8:00 you are at the opponents base with mutalisks
--> transition how its needed/possible
Replays
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11 spawning pool and scout
(--> if against CC first allin/pressure???; not sure if it works, may need to scout a little earlier!)
13 natural hatchery
12 queen+2zerglings (upon spawning pool completion)
17 extractor
--> use queen for inject + spawn a creep tumor in your main
--> use your pair of zerglings to get rid of pesky scouts
--> usually your opponent should only see that you went pool first, built a queen and are now starting a gas (which you could cancel)
16 overlord
drones...
100%natural start a queen
lair @100gas and use nurturing swarm on it as often as possible
build a spine at the front
take your second gas
version 1 (if you see Terran teching?):
@100% lair start a spire (in your main where you spread creep before, keep it hidden!), nurture it, spend the rest of your energy on injects
~60% completetion stop building drones (make sure you have enough overlords)
@100% spire start 4-6mutalisks
~8:00 you are at the opponents base with mutalisks
--> transition how its needed/possible
Replays
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http://drop.sc/371765