Hey whoa where is the shoutout to Chef? I see Auir Chef, yet no big shout out to the original Chef, creator of The Stove. Strategy has come a long way and I demand that chef be recognized as creating a style that didn't seem very plausible but reminding us " A well-practiced bad build can always win against players who have no practice against it."-Chef

arb

Noobville17921 Posts

February 09 2014 10:33 GMT

#64

i remember actually doing this alot in beta for WoL

good times

Startyr

Scotland188 Posts

February 09 2014 14:07 GMT

#65

This is a really nice guide.

I have been wondering about another variation. From that Hero vs Hyun game, the dts are scouted
and detection is prepared before the Dts can do anything so hero does an attack with 2 archons and a handful of zealots.
Instead of getting the dark shrine what about getting a templar archives and immediately getting a few archons, which can
either be used to attack, maybe plan to recall them out and/or use them to help take a third.
It does not depend so much on not being scouted and provides some more options with easier access to storm.

As Hero was up against ultra/infestor he ended up focusing more on immortals. So there is also the option of getting the robo first instead of a stargate, doing storm drops and having an immortal/archon/templar with storm army earlier than if going for Dts first.

I also noticed discussion on going up against queens, with templar archives instead of dark shrine you have access to feedback from the start of the game. Deal damage and prevent transfuse/inject/creep spread, making void rays even more powerful.

Has anyone else tried going straight for templar archives instead of dark shrine?

For templar archives and 4 High templar versus dark shrine and 4 Dark templar

150 more gas and 300 less minerals.
Templar archives takes half as long to build.

Teoita

Italy12246 Posts

February 09 2014 14:20 GMT

#66

I need to watch a vod. It sounds like you are suggesting skipping stargate, and opening with DT archons in order to attack. Both of those are really, really wierd choices, and generally considered sub optimal for a variety of reasons, so i really want to watch that game. You really dont care about the dt's being scouted all that much if you take a fast third tbh; in many vods linked naniwa's dt's do absolutely nothing and he still can estabilish a third confortably. In general, fast ht rush type builds dont really work because you need a lot of economy to support a stable templar-based army; rushing them in the early game means you end up with a couple of them with storm, and no support around them.

Dealing with ultras has nothing to do with your opener and yes, you should go imortals vs them.

You can't double tech vs queen/nydus busts no matter what your opening is. The problem there isn't lack of feedback vs transfuse, but the fact that queens are just great anti air units.

Xanatoss

Germany539 Posts

February 24 2014 13:13 GMT

#67

Again, great guide! Playing this build exclusively atm and its so, so awesome.

I just rewatched sOs vs GoWser (2 SG Opening) and was wondering if the 2nd Stargate from sOs was triggered by his successful harassment instead off a pregame-choice. What do you think?

Can you guys recommend some more pro-games where this has been used in the meantime?

WaSteR

United States3 Posts

February 25 2014 01:56 GMT

#68

such a baddass well organized/written guide , looking forward to using this buid style!

Teoita

Italy12246 Posts

February 25 2014 08:31 GMT

#69

On February 24 2014 22:13 Xanatoss wrote:
Again, great guide! Playing this build exclusively atm and its so, so awesome.

I just rewatched sOs vs GoWser (2 SG Opening) and was wondering if the 2nd Stargate from sOs was triggered by his successful harassment instead off a pregame-choice. What do you think?

Can you guys recommend some more pro-games where this has been used in the meantime?

Hmm dunno i dont think it was a reaction. What would he react to anyway? That build isn't something you can only do when ahead anyway.

Xanatoss

Germany539 Posts

February 25 2014 16:42 GMT

#70

Well, my thought was, that after killing a lot of drones and a queen, he went for the 2nd Stargate to be safer a against a possible reactive Roach/Ling Bust. Knowing that any Lair based Timing would be weaker now and thus allowing him to get Storm later.

Teoita

Italy12246 Posts

February 25 2014 17:40 GMT

#71

A single stargate should be enough to hold anything without aa (ie hydras). Vs hydra timings you shouldnt rush storm (unless you do the single stargate build, but even then i'm not 100% sure and it might be better to stick with archons), but rather make void/zealot/sentry/(archons maybe) non stop. So yeah, i dont think the second stargate was reactive; it's likely a stylistic/map specific adjustment i feel.

Nutrient

Chile7 Posts

March 02 2014 01:50 GMT

#72

Hello!, is this still viable with the latest hydra dps buff?

EsportsJohn

United States4883 Posts

March 02 2014 04:57 GMT

#73

On March 02 2014 10:50 Nutrient wrote:
Hello!, is this still viable with the latest hydra dps buff?

It's impossible to tell since the hydra buff has been out only one day -_-.

But I imagine it's still quite viable, though perhaps more precarious on smaller maps like Daedalus or Yeonsu where hydra timings are already particularly strong. The fact is that once you have AoE up, hydras are no longer really a threat.

Teoita

Italy12246 Posts

March 02 2014 09:59 GMT

#74

Yep. Im pretty sure it's still viable.

WastedSunsets

United States8 Posts

September 18 2014 08:42 GMT

#75

I was thinking of picking this build up, it's been a few months now, but I assume it's still perfectly as viable as it was in March?

Teoita

Italy12246 Posts

September 18 2014 08:54 GMT

#76

Yeah. It's not really used that much anymore because people have figured out that 3base blink is in fact amazing, but if you want to try this instead you'll be fine.

One execution note that i didn't write in the guide (it didn't seem that big of a deal at the time) is that you NEED to contain creep. 3base blink does it extremely efficiently, this build a little less so. Basically your only way of doing that is keeping your oracle alive and clearing off creep with that+a few voids. This is especially important against swarm host builds (which you are already vulnerable to).

WastedSunsets

United States8 Posts

September 18 2014 09:04 GMT

#77

Thank you.

Appelsoep

Belarus18 Posts

September 18 2014 13:20 GMT

#78

nice strat, this might actually help me deal with mutas in those 4 player maps without committing to 10000 stalkers which get wrecked by anything other then mutas