EPTChargelot Archon Void Ray PvZ - Page 3
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
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Rorschach
United States623 Posts
If your scouting is good I think it does OK vs swarmhost/queen/spore if you are able to harass and keep the zerg off that 5th base gas income. Anyone wanting to watch a streamer play this style a lot should check out Minigun's who uses it quite a bit vs zerg. | ||
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HYRULE15
Germany72 Posts
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KillSwitch81
United States4 Posts
thank you for taking the time to make well written guides your awesome for helping the community ya i wasnt sure either but i think i've seen the same opener into fast double voids idk what the switch is for him to choose one tech route or another but as i said i could be totally wrong, to bad pro gamers dont make guides of their builds after using them. that would be beyond amazing, and at that thanks State :D i wish more people did stuff like him and for those of you that dont know State writes amazing guides on builds http://www.gamefront.com/author/rvisbeck/ | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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Metak
296 Posts
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
On January 24 2014 09:04 ElMeanYo wrote: 25 gas hydras are going to put an end to this build. Or at least the effectiveness of it. That isn't even on a test map yet. Don't act like this is going to get rolled out. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
Not only that, but the gas it would save up makes the current ling/hydra>muta builds much, much stronger because the Zerg would be able to get up an additional 5-6 mutas with their first wave. This is also completely ridicolous. TLO himself said that this change would break PvZ; i haven't seen a single progamer in favour of the change. Blizzard is touching a unit that is the core of a matchup, when that core has absolutely no issues. Hydras are a midgame unit that allows safety and flexibility for the zerg, with a high number of transitions out of them already (as opposed to wol when there were hardly any viable transitions). Changing its cost so fundamentally is unecessary, and incredibly extreme. edit: anyway, this thread isn't to discuss patch notes so let's leave it at that. | ||
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EnSky
Philippines1003 Posts
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Grixx
Belgium26 Posts
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Xanatoss
Germany539 Posts
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Xanatoss
Germany539 Posts
Some Questions: 1. Is there a reason some builds go for a single phoenix first while others get the oracle? I feel the oracle is superior in almost all aspects (harassment, forcing spores, scouting, detection, pre-lair-bust-defense). 2. If the Zerg goes 3 Hatch before Gas, I adapt by getting my third base earlier (off of 1 Zealot and MSC around 6 Minutes, before Stargate) and wall the cannone there with my Stargate and possibly Twilight later on. I feel this is the correct response without droping the whole build but would like to hear other oppinions on that matter. 3. Is there a "ratio" for the initial HT/Void/Chargelot - Composition? I feel that Zealots become less effective the more I get. Same goes with HT for Storm. This statement feels especially strong when my opponent leans towards hydras almost exclusively. 4. Is there a better trigger to start Robo/ Immortal-Production than "After I started my 4th Base"? Whats the reason against double Robo? 5. If I went for the variant with single Stargate and my opponent intends to rush Mutas with lots of Speedlings for Mapcontrol (especially on Habitation Station), how likely is it to break him with pure Zealot/Archon (and the initial 2 Voids) before his Mutas pop? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
2) Dunno 3hatch before gas is really standard with FFE (which is the opening i prefer to use when doing this). I'm not sure about gateway FE, you can definitely go fast third into this but it feels so greedy i wouldn't recommend it for ladder play. If it works for you, keep doing it ofc 3) Probably 4-6 templar with storm, then you can go into archon production. Make zealots as you can afford them really. They definitely scale poorly later on in the game, which is why you have to trade them away with runbys. 4) When you need to start trading your zealots because supply counts get high would be a better trigger. Double robo is definitely viable, there is no particular reason against it other than "you need more units asap". It's another of those things that comes down to personal preference; single robo leaves you with marginally more resources for zealot harassment. 5) If he's rushing straight up to mutas i highly doubt you can punish him assuming you take your own third (two basing is a whole different beast but it's not related to this guide for the most part); you will be ready to move out around 12:00 when your storm is done and by then the mutas are already out. I feel like going with 2/3 archons and the voids isn't enough to break him; additionally, he can always make emergency roaches and crush your 130ish supply worth of zealot/archon. Muta rushes off no other tech are fairly easy to read though (compared to the crazy ass tech switches at least) so you should be able to get phoenixes and cannons up in time. Against any other kind of tech switch, as i wrote it really depends on when you identify he's going mutas; sometimes you can hit a timing and kill the mutas and/or end up in an extremely base race situation when only a few zerg units make it to your base, other times it's harder to tell who's ahead. | ||
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NRGsc2
Hungary1 Post
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On January 27 2014 13:35 The_Darkness wrote: I do a variant of this all of the time. It's very easy and effective against just about everything except for queen-infestor-ultra-upgraded ling -- oh man does that steam roll this. If you see that build you need to get out some Collossi or you will die exceedingly horribly. Keep in mind that this is a mid game composition. The purpose of void ray/chargelot/templar is to allow you to stabilize on three bases, take a fourth comfortably, and get out additional tech. If your opponent is rushing for hive tech, it's quite easy to simply hit a pre-hive timing and outright kill your opponent. If your opponent is taking it a little more slowly, then yeah, you add on tech as necessary to deal with the various Zerg threats. The main thing to remember is that you're shooting for 3 bases and a void ray/chargelot/templar composition in the mid game. After that, anything is possible; just make sure you're scouting, making good reads, and attacking/defending when necessary . | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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