EPTOn April 03 2014 17:39 DjayEl wrote:
Hi Lucoda, I've got some questions for you if you don't mind.
I've great success with your style of play when it comes to standard late game situations, but I must confess I still get some troubles defending most basic 2-base all-ins.
- vs Immortal Sentry : in your video you showcase a game on Yeonsu (same as one of your replays) where you defend this using Roach and Hydra. I see you stick on 5 gases for a moment. I lose a lot to this all-in (regardless of the map), but I go 4 gases roach/ling as I thought it was the "standard" way to defend this and never could get my hydras on time anyway or in ridiculously low numbers. I noticed to save your minerals by not making any zergling and using them on hydras instead, while still getting some roaches, and only add a few lings later when you start floating minerals. Is it a gambit you make or is it the best way to hold this all-in in your experience? Is it map dependant?
I can see the benefit of going hydras in the long run though... Often, my P opponent sees all my ling roach and backs off, takes a 3rd and continue to threaten me with his mass units while I'm stuck on roach/ling and I can't punish him directly, whereas I could do a strong roach hydra push before he gets colossi if I went directly for them. I'm just afraid of the first moments of this push that I would not have enough units.
More generally, I wonder why this all-in is not considered as strong as it was in WoL and not used too often. In WoL it was considered nearly OP, but nothing has changed in HOTS, it only got worse with the MC. SH can't be out on time and Hydra speed does not really matter, so what changed exactly?
- Blink All-in. These, I feel, come in various shapes and forms and at different timings (with DT or not, etc.). I never get enough units against these, at how many drones should I stop to counter the most standard blink timing? Do I have to get hydras ASAP or should I stay on Roach/Ling?
Thank you!
Hi Lucoda, I've got some questions for you if you don't mind.
I've great success with your style of play when it comes to standard late game situations, but I must confess I still get some troubles defending most basic 2-base all-ins.
- vs Immortal Sentry : in your video you showcase a game on Yeonsu (same as one of your replays) where you defend this using Roach and Hydra. I see you stick on 5 gases for a moment. I lose a lot to this all-in (regardless of the map), but I go 4 gases roach/ling as I thought it was the "standard" way to defend this and never could get my hydras on time anyway or in ridiculously low numbers. I noticed to save your minerals by not making any zergling and using them on hydras instead, while still getting some roaches, and only add a few lings later when you start floating minerals. Is it a gambit you make or is it the best way to hold this all-in in your experience? Is it map dependant?
I can see the benefit of going hydras in the long run though... Often, my P opponent sees all my ling roach and backs off, takes a 3rd and continue to threaten me with his mass units while I'm stuck on roach/ling and I can't punish him directly, whereas I could do a strong roach hydra push before he gets colossi if I went directly for them. I'm just afraid of the first moments of this push that I would not have enough units.
More generally, I wonder why this all-in is not considered as strong as it was in WoL and not used too often. In WoL it was considered nearly OP, but nothing has changed in HOTS, it only got worse with the MC. SH can't be out on time and Hydra speed does not really matter, so what changed exactly?
- Blink All-in. These, I feel, come in various shapes and forms and at different timings (with DT or not, etc.). I never get enough units against these, at how many drones should I stop to counter the most standard blink timing? Do I have to get hydras ASAP or should I stay on Roach/Ling?
Thank you!
Great question! I'll deal with the Immortal Sentry all in first because you made a few good points. Roach ling is a really solid way, probably the best way, to deal with the 8:45 Immortal Sentry timing. However, you'll notice that his push was about a minute or so later. This gives him an extra Immortal and more Sentries. The reason I go for Hydras in this situation is because, with the grooved spines upgrade, Hydralisks can shoot over the forcefields and trade very efficiently.
Roach Ling is fantastic on a large map such as Frost/Alterzim/Daedalus because you can get massive flanks off with the speed of the units and because of how many units you have. However on Yeonsu it's hard to get those flanks off so I prefer risking the Hydralisks so I can transition better. If you manage to just get 4-5 out it's so worth it. You could even just make 8ish and then pump out roach lings and try and go for the big flanks. That would probably be the best way to go about it. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A MACRO HATCH!!!!!! That is so important to have enough units out.
Now, you asked what has changed. Hydralisks are so much more viable these days which really helps out vs Immo Sentry. They can snipe the Warp Prism (which is a massive deal) and can snipe the MSC. The Hydra speed sort of indirectly helps because now Hydras are viable in the mid game (with the speed) so having them in the early game is fine!
Blink all in is probably the easiest 2 base all in to defend once scouted at a good time. There are two responses and both depend on how much time you have. If you scout it in good time, Hydra Ling is the way to go. This DESTROYS the blink composition. Skip roaches completely in this case. The second method is when you scout it too late to get hydras and a fifth gas out in time. Stay 3-4 gas and get burrow+roach/lings. You will be aiming to do with JD did vs Dear at Blizzcon and burrow on top of the tosses stalker ball. Drone count should be at least 55ish drones.
Hope this helps!
